Why do people hate Elrich?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His policies will continue to discourage job creation in MD, especially relative to VA and DC. Lack of jobs will reduces the county's tax base and hurts property values, which itself reduces tax revenues.

To continue with the current level of county spending, never mind all the new things Elrich wants, would require increases in tax rates to make up for the above. And that, in return, will lead some of the wealthier county residents to move to VA or DC to avoid the higher tax burden in MoCo/MD. While it is tempting to say good riddens and don't let the door hit your rear on the way out, if we lose wealthier residents we lose the tax revenue needed to fund all the things the county wants to provide

A death spiral is too dramatic, but if MoCo doesn't keep itself at least nominally competitive with the surrounding areas, it isn't going to be good for county residents -- rich or poor. And the poor will probably suffer more because they can less easily just move across state lines.

The county is just adding rampant development without enough infrastructure (roads, parks, schools, Rec center, etc) in the wealthier areas while greatly increasing the real estate and recordation taxes paid. It’s called ‘screwing people over’ . That is what Elrich wants to change which would be good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elrich, unlike Flourine, is not in the pocket of wealthy developers so they depict him as anti-business when in fact he's just interested in the welfare of regular working people.

Regular working people need jobs. The measures advocated for by Elrich will hurt job creation in the county, hurting tax revenues that could otherwise be used for county programs to help regular folks.

And they need places to live. He has never supported a single effort to bring affordable housing to MoCo.

Of course he has. Good old Nancy tried to have affordable housing in Bethesda torn down and he opposed that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Making people stick their hands out for earned income tax credits, food stamps and Medicaid is not nearly as satisfying as earning enough to support your own family. And who pays for all of the previously mentioned benefits? The middle class! Everything continues to go to the rich - woo hoo for that small percentage of our country. I’m sure they need all the extra money because ... why?

If MoCo added an EITc, it would be on top of the existing earned income tax credit already handled as the federal and state level. So there's no more effort involved on behalf of the recipient -- it would just mean they get a larger credit every year, on their taxes they are filing anyway, because they earn money.

I'm not aware of any tax break given in MoCo specifically to the rich. They have raised property taxes and added other taxes, but those don't benefit the rich specfically -- it's not good for them either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Minimum wage isn’t anti-business. It puts more money in workers’ pockets that they can then spend at those businesses...

You are so naive. Talk to the owners of small businesses who have closed because of the minimum wage increase and other MoCo policies.

Small businesses frequently close because the landlords raise the rent ridiculously and let’s not gloss over MoCos ridiculous policies. The alcohol mafia taxes small businesses ridiculously (ask the owner of Hank Dietles) and has arbitrary policies like ‘only one family owned restaurant if more than one can serve alcohol’ . Why?? So, there are now 2 MoCo locations of Urban BBQ in Maryland but only one can serve alcohol. Why? My husband wanted a beer with BBQ for his birthday so we drive right past the Urban BBQ in Rockville as they don’t serve beer. What is ‘pro business’ about that kind of absurd policy?

What is ‘pro business’ about Nancy Floreen’s increase in the recordation tax? You buy a home or refinance and you pay the county thousands upon thousands in taxes. Who wants to buy here ?? How does that support the real estate or mortgage industries?

Seriously, go talk to small biz owners who’ve closed their doors in Takoma or Silver Spring. They’re often pretty open about why and I have not heard that it was about rent.

Also, please show us the data that support your claim about the recordation tax causing people to not buy houses in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His policies will continue to discourage job creation in MD, especially relative to VA and DC. Lack of jobs will reduces the county's tax base and hurts property values, which itself reduces tax revenues.

To continue with the current level of county spending, never mind all the new things Elrich wants, would require increases in tax rates to make up for the above. And that, in return, will lead some of the wealthier county residents to move to VA or DC to avoid the higher tax burden in MoCo/MD. While it is tempting to say good riddens and don't let the door hit your rear on the way out, if we lose wealthier residents we lose the tax revenue needed to fund all the things the county wants to provide

A death spiral is too dramatic, but if MoCo doesn't keep itself at least nominally competitive with the surrounding areas, it isn't going to be good for county residents -- rich or poor. And the poor will probably suffer more because they can less easily just move across state lines.

The county is just adding rampant development without enough infrastructure (roads, parks, schools, Rec center, etc) in the wealthier areas while greatly increasing the real estate and recordation taxes paid. It’s called ‘screwing people over’ . That is what Elrich wants to change which would be good.

So now Marc is a champion for the wealthier areas of MoCo and does not support higher real estate taxes? Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His policies will continue to discourage job creation in MD, especially relative to VA and DC. Lack of jobs will reduces the county's tax base and hurts property values, which itself reduces tax revenues.

To continue with the current level of county spending, never mind all the new things Elrich wants, would require increases in tax rates to make up for the above. And that, in return, will lead some of the wealthier county residents to move to VA or DC to avoid the higher tax burden in MoCo/MD. While it is tempting to say good riddens and don't let the door hit your rear on the way out, if we lose wealthier residents we lose the tax revenue needed to fund all the things the county wants to provide

A death spiral is too dramatic, but if MoCo doesn't keep itself at least nominally competitive with the surrounding areas, it isn't going to be good for county residents -- rich or poor. And the poor will probably suffer more because they can less easily just move across state lines.

Good sounding answer to my question. (I’m OP). But what are these policies that will prevent job creation? Specifically? Where is Floreen different?

NP here. Specifically:

- Elrich pushed hard for the $15/hour minimum wage increase, backed by unions. This is anti-business. Any business that can move part of their business out of MoCo will. It's just a few miles up 270 to Frederick County, that has a lower minimum wage. Imagine if you're a HVAC or plumbing business -- move a few miles from Gaithersburg to Frederick and now you're not forced to pay $15/hour even to the admin assistants.

If Elrich really cared about ensuring families had a living wage, he would have pushed to increased the EITC (earned income tax credit). That looks at family size and _total_ family income, and gives money to those who don't make a certain threshold. It's already in place in the Fed and MD tax system, so MoCo could just add a piggyback payment on to it.

Instead, Elrich's minimum wage will make it difficult for people to get entry-level jobs. A 20 year old who wants their first job doesn't have the skills to earn $15/hr yet. Elrich has effectively locked them out of the MoCo labor market.

- Regulations. Bag tax. Plastic bags are bad for the environmnet so let's tax them. I sort of understand that, but why tax _paper_ bags also? They are typically made from 100% recycled paper, and are fully recyclable.

- One that came up this week -- banning smoking _outdoors_ in restaurants. Elrich wants to ban it. That's anti-business. Let the business decide if they want to ban smoking outdoors (on their patio) or not. If customers don't like the smoking, they will vote with their feet and the business may decide to ban it.. or vice versa. We don't need regulations for this.

- Elrich's ideas on transportation. He's basically ignored upcounty (Clarksburg, Germantown, etc) and his solution to the traffic problems is to make a reversible lane on I-270 and add in BRT (buses). Upcounty is way spread out -- buses won't work effectively. 270 needs to be widened. Businesses need this -- this is a main artery connecting MoCo to major transportion hubs, like Hagerstown and Parkersburg (huge logistics centers).

There's more.. but that's just a start.

OP here. Thanks, this is the kind of well-thought out, detailed and specific answer I was asking for. While it will not change my mind (that's not really what I was looking for) but I really wanted to know the business perspective. My hope is that Elrich will work with the Council and small business owners and economic advisers (for which he chose David Blair, remember him?) and arrive at the best compromise. I read the Sage Policy Group report about the impending economic crisis, but hearing from Elrich directly made it sound like he wasn't as anti-business as implied, but the Post and others insisted otherwise, so I needed more detail and context.
Your points are solid and it's something to think about, though I think a lot of it is fundamentally seeing things a different way. It looks like you are more of an ideological libertarian and have different priorities.

That said, I said this before that I am a single-issue voter on environmental policy. I find the Global Commission on the Economy and Climate report (that says we have twelve years to change our ways) to be more concerning and I prioritize lowering emissions over absolutely everything else. Based on this, I was 85% leaning Elrich with the 15% hesitation because of the urbanist argument that his housing policies might promote sprawl. However, Elrich clarified his "anti-density" position as in favor of a variety of units, for families and singles, instead of mainly one bedroom and studio apartments which are more "dense." I am categorically against adding more roads, expanding roads or anything that incentivizes people to drive. I favor companies that allow teleworking above all.

I know most of you might not share my priorities and I honestly don't mean to sound condescending about it, but I truly fear that too much emphasis on business growth will lead us to the situation in which the planet has reached the point of no return "but shareholder profits reached an all-time high." If the private sector, beyond the top good actors, whips itself into perfect shape, then great. But what I see at least at the local level is a fetish for business growth and competition with Virginia for shiny objects like Amazon but I think our competition should be about who has the lowest impact and carbon footprint and race to 100% renewables.

[Anonymous]

If you look at what everyone that hates Floreen says, it's always "she's in the pocket of developers". I would like to know which developer she's in the pocket of and which "development" these people specifically think should not be built. Do people want fewer houses? Do people want fewer businesses? Explicitly say, which homes do you want not built. I'm voting Floreen and strawman attacks with zero substance will not persuade me otherwise. The house I live in was at one time built by a developer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you look at what everyone that hates Floreen says, it's always "she's in the pocket of developers". I would like to know which developer she's in the pocket of and which "development" these people specifically think should not be built. Do people want fewer houses? Do people want fewer businesses? Explicitly say, which homes do you want not built. I'm voting Floreen and strawman attacks with zero substance will not persuade me otherwise. The house I live in was at one time built by a developer.

You make a good point. Whether we like it or not, the MoCo population, like the population of MD, and the US as a whole, is growing. People need somewhere to live. If they block new projects downcounty (Bethesda, etc), it drives up prices by limiting supply, and gives people no choice but to move upcounty like Clarksburg/Germantown. But that area isn't served by public transporation, and even adding a BRT won't help that much -- it's too spread out. So, we'd need more roads.

Either we allow development downcounty and add more capacity for schools, and so on; or we do it upcounty and add more capacity for roads (and schools.. but they have the land set aside already).

What I haven't really seen from Elrich is how to address the growing population. If he's anti-development, then housing prices will just go up since all these new people moving to the area need a place to live. If we restrict supply, then prices go up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That said, I said this before that I am a single-issue voter on environmental policy. I find the Global Commission on the Economy and Climate report (that says we have twelve years to change our ways) to be more concerning and I prioritize lowering emissions over absolutely everything else. Based on this, I was 85% leaning Elrich with the 15% hesitation because of the urbanist argument that his housing policies might promote sprawl. However, Elrich clarified his "anti-density" position as in favor of a variety of units, for families and singles, instead of mainly one bedroom and studio apartments which are more "dense." I am categorically against adding more roads, expanding roads or anything that incentivizes people to drive. I favor companies that allow teleworking above all.

I understand your point, but do you think that's going to work for upcounty, especially in the Agricultural Reserve Area? It's lovely up there but it's also very spread out. Is public transportation really a viable alternative to driving?

Heck, we live in Bethesda and the Ride-On bus in front of our house runs only on weekdays. If you want to go somewhere after 7pm on weekdays, or any time during the weekend, you're out of luck. We're not in the boondocks of Bethesda either -- about 1.5 miles away from Bethesda Metro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you look at what everyone that hates Floreen says, it's always "she's in the pocket of developers". I would like to know which developer she's in the pocket of and which "development" these people specifically think should not be built. Do people want fewer houses? Do people want fewer businesses? Explicitly say, which homes do you want not built. I'm voting Floreen and strawman attacks with zero substance will not persuade me otherwise. The house I live in was at one time built by a developer.

Charles Nulsen, Richard Parsons... Lee...Bozzuto...the list goes on. Just look at her financial disclosures
I’m not against development. I’m not against business. I just don’t think developers and businesses should write their own rules by having a disproportionate influence in our local government

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’m not against development. I’m not against business. I just don’t think developers and businesses should write their own rules by having a disproportionate influence in our local government

If developers have so much control, why did it take nearly 40 years for the ICC to be built? Why was the Purple Line delayed by more than 5 years? Both benefitted developers because it increased the value of the land near those projects. Why has Westbard been delayed time and time again?

I guess developers are doing a pretty bad job influencing local government, if they can't get their projects through in a timely manner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Marc Elrich is a mansplaining jerk without a complete vision for how to govern the county or help it grow.

I cannot remember the last non-democrat I voted for in 30 years of voting and I'm voting for Floreen.

He’s weird and CREEPY. I’ve met him and I can’t put my finger on it but there is something about him I just do NOT like. You know that feeling or vibe you get when you meet someone who you immediately know you want nothing to do with and want to stay far away from? He’s that.

Funny. I got the same feeling from Floreen when she told me to move out of Bethesda if I didn't like it; that other parts of the county had more traffic. Really? Like many others, I rue leaving DC, a beautiful, green city. Bethesda is indeed a "paradise lost," as Bethesda Magazine pondered uyears ago. Elrich is the only one who believe local voices - neighbors - voters - matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Marc Elrich is a mansplaining jerk without a complete vision for how to govern the county or help it grow.

I cannot remember the last non-democrat I voted for in 30 years of voting and I'm voting for Floreen.

He’s weird and CREEPY. I’ve met him and I can’t put my finger on it but there is something about him I just do NOT like. You know that feeling or vibe you get when you meet someone who you immediately know you want nothing to do with and want to stay far away from? He’s that.

Funny. I got the same feeling from Floreen when she told me to move out of Bethesda if I didn't like it; that other parts of the county had more traffic. Really? Like many others, I rue leaving DC, a beautiful, green city. Bethesda is indeed a "paradise lost," as Bethesda Magazine pondered uyears ago. Elrich is the only one who believe local voices - neighbors - voters - matter.

Oh yes, I’m sure Elrich believes the voices of Bethesda voters really matter.

[Anonymous]

My impression of Erlich is that he’s basically a socialist who uses inflammatory language and who is now trying to appear moderate. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My impression of Erlich is that he’s basically a socialist who uses inflammatory language and who is now trying to appear moderate. No thanks.

I just voted for him.