Trajectory for Shepherd Elementary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would kill to move to SP/CV - there’s nothing under 900k. Inbound for Takoma elementary, probably will need to do charter/private. Op needs to check her extreme privilege if Shep/Deal/Wilson is too retrograde for her snowflake.

There are a few here, although most have been sitting for a while. One was listed yesterday--a cute 3/2 for $629K. Pretty rare to see that price these days in SP for something livable (at least from photos, it looks livable).

https://www.redfin.com/school/117590/DC/Washington-DC/Shepherd-Elementary-School/filter/property-type=house+condo+townhouse,max-price=900k,include=forsale+mlsfsbo+fsbo,status=active,viewport=38.99799:38.97628:-77.02057:-77.05503

According to the Redfin listing details, this house is zoned for Deal and for Coolidge, not Wilson.

MSDC puts that address IB for Shepherd/Deal/Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would kill to move to SP/CV - there’s nothing under 900k. Inbound for Takoma elementary, probably will need to do charter/private. Op needs to check her extreme privilege if Shep/Deal/Wilson is too retrograde for her snowflake.

There are a few here, although most have been sitting for a while. One was listed yesterday--a cute 3/2 for $629K. Pretty rare to see that price these days in SP for something livable (at least from photos, it looks livable).

https://www.redfin.com/school/117590/DC/Washington-DC/Shepherd-Elementary-School/filter/property-type=house+condo+townhouse,max-price=900k,include=forsale+mlsfsbo+fsbo,status=active,viewport=38.99799:38.97628:-77.02057:-77.05503

According to the Redfin listing details, this house is zoned for Deal and for Coolidge, not Wilson.

I'm not sure where you're looking, but it's in Shepherd Park, so definitely zoned for Wilson. See schools "Serving this home" listed here:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1317-Fernway-Rd-NW-20012/home/10022058#schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would kill to move to SP/CV - there’s nothing under 900k. Inbound for Takoma elementary, probably will need to do charter/private. Op needs to check her extreme privilege if Shep/Deal/Wilson is too retrograde for her snowflake.

There are a few here, although most have been sitting for a while. One was listed yesterday--a cute 3/2 for $629K. Pretty rare to see that price these days in SP for something livable (at least from photos, it looks livable).

https://www.redfin.com/school/117590/DC/Washington-DC/Shepherd-Elementary-School/filter/property-type=house+condo+townhouse,max-price=900k,include=forsale+mlsfsbo+fsbo,status=active,viewport=38.99799:38.97628:-77.02057:-77.05503

According to the Redfin listing details, this house is zoned for Deal and for Coolidge, not Wilson.

Agent has outdated info by 5+ years when SP high school moved from Coolidge to Wilson when they aligned all elementary schools to same middle and high feeder. Agent is doing their client a disservice. There are NO neighborhoods anymore that feel to Deal but not to Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked everything about Shepherd: its demographics, its test scores, its traditionalism--even its uniforms.

And it was a disaster for us. It is not the first time I have said this, but it is a deeply conventional school. Not with the teachers or the administration, but with the other families, and their expectations. If you have a child or a family that does not quite fit its mold... it is not a nice place. At all. Just in terms of the other kids. That was our experience, and one I heard from other families. I remain very pro-Shepherd because I think that the things it does well it does awesomely, but it is also a school that carries all the baggage of its time and place, and that baggage has to be accounted for. I'm not a huge fan of progressive education--I prefer the Shepherd model--but the Shepherd model had my child being attacked constantly for being different--and that was not so great.

Shepherd Elementary made me realize that DC is a very conservative town and that kids who don't fit the mold are always going to be shunned.

I think there is a lot more to this story than you are letting on. You clearly think your child is super unique and special and when the others kids didn't think so, you assumed the school was failing to provide the emotional support needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked everything about Shepherd: its demographics, its test scores, its traditionalism--even its uniforms.

And it was a disaster for us. It is not the first time I have said this, but it is a deeply conventional school. Not with the teachers or the administration, but with the other families, and their expectations. If you have a child or a family that does not quite fit its mold... it is not a nice place. At all. Just in terms of the other kids. That was our experience, and one I heard from other families. I remain very pro-Shepherd because I think that the things it does well it does awesomely, but it is also a school that carries all the baggage of its time and place, and that baggage has to be accounted for. I'm not a huge fan of progressive education--I prefer the Shepherd model--but the Shepherd model had my child being attacked constantly for being different--and that was not so great.

Shepherd Elementary made me realize that DC is a very conservative town and that kids who don't fit the mold are always going to be shunned.

I think there is a lot more to this story than you are letting on. You clearly think your child is super unique and special and when the others kids didn't think so, you assumed the school was failing to provide the emotional support needed.

Hardly. Are you that mom on the playground who yelled at me for correcting her son after he hit my kid? You sound just like her. As I said at the time, I only told your son the same thing I told my own child: work it out. Were you less high maintenance and insecure, our kids might have become friends.

Instead, your kid continued to bully and harrass mine. With your blessing.

My family and my children have always tried to work with the community we're in. There are lovely people at Shepherd. And a few really horrible ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the EOTP schools have uniforms. Some of it is a holdover from when the demographics were different; some of it is parents in gentrifying neighborhoods liking uniforms for a variety of reasons. Brent has uniforms and has a sub 10% FARMS rate. Maury has uniforms at about 20%. It's pretty ingrained in their cultures at this point.

I think OP's point is that SP/CV is not a gentrifying neighborhood. However, until recently, it was mostly OOB. I heard it was mostly IB, but then became mostly OOB related to some issues that happened during Michelle Rhee's tenure. A neighbor told me that during this turmoil, there were like 6 principals in 2 years. There was a big split about the direction of the school, with some families wanting it to become dual-language and others wanting the International Bacc. program, and a lot of IB families pulled their kids out for private or WOTP schools. The reputation has continued to suffer until the last few years, when there's been renewed interest from IB families with young kids buying in the neighborhood. Some details of the Rhee situation here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101604350.html

OP here. Yes, thank you, I meant that SP/CV is and has been a higher SES neighborhood. And thanks for the background info regarding how we got here. Five principals in one year? No wonder there's been strife.

I didn't understand why Shepherd Elementary has many attributes of a lower-SES school such as low test scores, lack of progressive educational models, uniforms, etc. I think these attributes would need to change to attract more in boundary families who would stay through the upper grades, which would then raise the test scores.

But as some PP's indicated, it looks like the general feeling is that current Shepherd parents are happy with the status quo. I greatly appreciate this information as I likely wouldn't be.

I'm very concerned regarding the situation described with 10-12 warnings per day to a child. From my perspective, this indicates either a lack of effective teaching capabilities or unmet special needs (which goes back to a lack of effective teaching capabilities). In my experience, schools that do SPED well are also schools that generally do social emotional development well in general. I've heard several tales from current and past parents that indicate that Shepherd Elementary doesn't do social emotional development well. I'm so sorry to hear this isn't changing and that there's no push for this to change.

I'm also not comfortable sorting for SES to decipher test scores, and just leaving the lower SES OOB children with a less optimal education. It's better to have a high-performing peer group, and students who aren't up to grade level cause a lot of problems for the peer group, especially in the upper grades.

Another poster directed me to Lowell for more progressive teaching methodologies. I have to question why we can't demand these same methodologies for our public schools?

I'll add that Shepherd Elementary isn't just for current Shepherd parents; it's for all the in boundary families it's failing to serve too. But as I mentioned, I'm not willing to fight that uphill battle. Thanks to everyone for the information.

Oh honey, you're going to struggle no matter what school you send your kid to. Good luuuuuuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked everything about Shepherd: its demographics, its test scores, its traditionalism--even its uniforms.

And it was a disaster for us. It is not the first time I have said this, but it is a deeply conventional school. Not with the teachers or the administration, but with the other families, and their expectations. If you have a child or a family that does not quite fit its mold... it is not a nice place. At all. Just in terms of the other kids. That was our experience, and one I heard from other families. I remain very pro-Shepherd because I think that the things it does well it does awesomely, but it is also a school that carries all the baggage of its time and place, and that baggage has to be accounted for. I'm not a huge fan of progressive education--I prefer the Shepherd model--but the Shepherd model had my child being attacked constantly for being different--and that was not so great.

Shepherd Elementary made me realize that DC is a very conservative town and that kids who don't fit the mold are always going to be shunned.

I'm sorry this happened to your kid. Would you mind elaborating on what happened? What's the baggage?

This is the “Shepherd hater” from a couple years ago, who would frequently post just this type of story with few details, other than she didn’t like the neighborhood or school and that people in SP were too traditional and snobby. She rented there for a year or two before buying in Silver Spring, from what I recall.

So is she telling the truth or no?

NP she never explains in detail why it was a bad fit for her kid. Not every school will be a perfect fit for every kid.

+1. Many were sympathetic at first, but after she recycles the same story for the 87th time, even after leaving the neighborhood, it gets annoying. Not to mention her frequent references to having lived in NYC, and how traditional, conservative, etc. DC is in comparison.

Over and over and over and over. I suspect if you search Shepherd on this board, about 30% of the postings are hers. She's now claiming she's a booster, but her singular experience overshare is accomplishing anything but.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the EOTP schools have uniforms. Some of it is a holdover from when the demographics were different; some of it is parents in gentrifying neighborhoods liking uniforms for a variety of reasons. Brent has uniforms and has a sub 10% FARMS rate. Maury has uniforms at about 20%. It's pretty ingrained in their cultures at this point.

I think OP's point is that SP/CV is not a gentrifying neighborhood. However, until recently, it was mostly OOB. I heard it was mostly IB, but then became mostly OOB related to some issues that happened during Michelle Rhee's tenure. A neighbor told me that during this turmoil, there were like 6 principals in 2 years. There was a big split about the direction of the school, with some families wanting it to become dual-language and others wanting the International Bacc. program, and a lot of IB families pulled their kids out for private or WOTP schools. The reputation has continued to suffer until the last few years, when there's been renewed interest from IB families with young kids buying in the neighborhood. Some details of the Rhee situation here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101604350.html

OP here. Yes, thank you, I meant that SP/CV is and has been a higher SES neighborhood. And thanks for the background info regarding how we got here. Five principals in one year? No wonder there's been strife.

I didn't understand why Shepherd Elementary has many attributes of a lower-SES school such as low test scores, lack of progressive educational models, uniforms, etc. I think these attributes would need to change to attract more in boundary families who would stay through the upper grades, which would then raise the test scores.

But as some PP's indicated, it looks like the general feeling is that current Shepherd parents are happy with the status quo. I greatly appreciate this information as I likely wouldn't be.

I'm very concerned regarding the situation described with 10-12 warnings per day to a child. From my perspective, this indicates either a lack of effective teaching capabilities or unmet special needs (which goes back to a lack of effective teaching capabilities). In my experience, schools that do SPED well are also schools that generally do social emotional development well in general. I've heard several tales from current and past parents that indicate that Shepherd Elementary doesn't do social emotional development well. I'm so sorry to hear this isn't changing and that there's no push for this to change.

I'm also not comfortable sorting for SES to decipher test scores, and just leaving the lower SES OOB children with a less optimal education. It's better to have a high-performing peer group, and students who aren't up to grade level cause a lot of problems for the peer group, especially in the upper grades.

Another poster directed me to Lowell for more progressive teaching methodologies. I have to question why we can't demand these same methodologies for our public schools?

I'll add that Shepherd Elementary isn't just for current Shepherd parents; it's for all the in boundary families it's failing to serve too. But as I mentioned, I'm not willing to fight that uphill battle. Thanks to everyone for the information.

Oh honey, you're going to struggle no matter what school you send your kid to. Good luuuuuuck.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked everything about Shepherd: its demographics, its test scores, its traditionalism--even its uniforms.

And it was a disaster for us. It is not the first time I have said this, but it is a deeply conventional school. Not with the teachers or the administration, but with the other families, and their expectations. If you have a child or a family that does not quite fit its mold... it is not a nice place. At all. Just in terms of the other kids. That was our experience, and one I heard from other families. I remain very pro-Shepherd because I think that the things it does well it does awesomely, but it is also a school that carries all the baggage of its time and place, and that baggage has to be accounted for. I'm not a huge fan of progressive education--I prefer the Shepherd model--but the Shepherd model had my child being attacked constantly for being different--and that was not so great.

Shepherd Elementary made me realize that DC is a very conservative town and that kids who don't fit the mold are always going to be shunned.

I'm sorry this happened to your kid. Would you mind elaborating on what happened? What's the baggage?

This is the “Shepherd hater” from a couple years ago, who would frequently post just this type of story with few details, other than she didn’t like the neighborhood or school and that people in SP were too traditional and snobby. She rented there for a year or two before buying in Silver Spring, from what I recall.

So is she telling the truth or no?

NP she never explains in detail why it was a bad fit for her kid. Not every school will be a perfect fit for every kid.

+1. Many were sympathetic at first, but after she recycles the same story for the 87th time, even after leaving the neighborhood, it gets annoying. Not to mention her frequent references to having lived in NYC, and how traditional, conservative, etc. DC is in comparison.

Over and over and over and over. I suspect if you search Shepherd on this board, about 30% of the postings are hers. She's now claiming she's a booster, but her singular experience overshare is accomplishing anything but.

Unrelated question: do people just check back for their pet school then post same things? Or do they have some type of alert set up? Just always wondered. Especially those not in the DCPS system anymore it just seems odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the EOTP schools have uniforms. Some of it is a holdover from when the demographics were different; some of it is parents in gentrifying neighborhoods liking uniforms for a variety of reasons. Brent has uniforms and has a sub 10% FARMS rate. Maury has uniforms at about 20%. It's pretty ingrained in their cultures at this point.

I think OP's point is that SP/CV is not a gentrifying neighborhood. However, until recently, it was mostly OOB. I heard it was mostly IB, but then became mostly OOB related to some issues that happened during Michelle Rhee's tenure. A neighbor told me that during this turmoil, there were like 6 principals in 2 years. There was a big split about the direction of the school, with some families wanting it to become dual-language and others wanting the International Bacc. program, and a lot of IB families pulled their kids out for private or WOTP schools. The reputation has continued to suffer until the last few years, when there's been renewed interest from IB families with young kids buying in the neighborhood. Some details of the Rhee situation here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101604350.html

OP here. Yes, thank you, I meant that SP/CV is and has been a higher SES neighborhood. And thanks for the background info regarding how we got here. Five principals in one year? No wonder there's been strife.

I didn't understand why Shepherd Elementary has many attributes of a lower-SES school such as low test scores, lack of progressive educational models, uniforms, etc. I think these attributes would need to change to attract more in boundary families who would stay through the upper grades, which would then raise the test scores.

But as some PP's indicated, it looks like the general feeling is that current Shepherd parents are happy with the status quo. I greatly appreciate this information as I likely wouldn't be.

I'm very concerned regarding the situation described with 10-12 warnings per day to a child. From my perspective, this indicates either a lack of effective teaching capabilities or unmet special needs (which goes back to a lack of effective teaching capabilities). In my experience, schools that do SPED well are also schools that generally do social emotional development well in general. I've heard several tales from current and past parents that indicate that Shepherd Elementary doesn't do social emotional development well. I'm so sorry to hear this isn't changing and that there's no push for this to change.

I'm also not comfortable sorting for SES to decipher test scores, and just leaving the lower SES OOB children with a less optimal education. It's better to have a high-performing peer group, and students who aren't up to grade level cause a lot of problems for the peer group, especially in the upper grades.

Another poster directed me to Lowell for more progressive teaching methodologies. I have to question why we can't demand these same methodologies for our public schools?

I'll add that Shepherd Elementary isn't just for current Shepherd parents; it's for all the in boundary families it's failing to serve too. But as I mentioned, I'm not willing to fight that uphill battle. Thanks to everyone for the information.

Oh honey, you're going to struggle no matter what school you send your kid to. Good luuuuuuck.

+1

+2. Just move to McLean already and get off our nerves.

[Anonymous]

+1

+2. Just move to McLean already and get off our nerves.

LOL (from someone whose sister lives in McLean).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:- Concerning anecdotes regarding prioritization of discipline over social emotional learning. By all accounts Shepherd seems to lack progressive educational methods. This seems to be a particular issue with ECE and SPED.

As a parent who came into Shepherd in ECE with a kid who started out as SPED (had an Early Stages IEP) and has since migrated to a 504 - I have firsthand knowledge of how this works and can tell you that 1) that information is highly dependent upon the kid and 2) in general, I think you're incorrect.

I was less than thrilled with the prior Special Ed coordinator, who retired at the end of last year. In spite of her, the social workers, school psychologist, and special education instructors are great. Caring, attentive people who are specifically attuned to making sure that my kid's emotional needs are addressed. They work hard to establish trust, set up mentoring relationships with older "buddies" within the school, make accommodations to avoid or exit situations that cause him distress. It took some time and effort (both on our part, and the part of the school) to get our behavior plan right - but I think it's working well for everyone now.

Are they perfect at this job? No - days sometimes come when something is off: a teacher is out unexpectedly, or the social worker is dealing with another crisis. You find me a school that can work perfectly 100% of the time, and I'll enroll.

As for progressive educational methods - I'm not sure which you're specifically interested in. The Shepherd curriculum is International Baccalaureate. Keep in mind that they still have OSSE requirements to follow Common Core standards (and report associated metrics), so I think the school has done a fine job with layering IB on top of Common Core in a way that makes sense. I will say that technology is incorporated into the classrooms, and there are broad, long term projects, my kid's reading is assigned specifically based upon tested skill level, there's lots of group work - all of these seem to fit.

Yes, the school still subscribes to the model of homework, though its spread over the course of the week in our class's case. Our teachers use Class Dojo, which does use a points-based incentive model. Not sure how much that's used in the upper grades, but seems to be widely used in the lower ones.

Anonymous wrote:- Under-performing test scores. Why are the scores so low?

Anonymous wrote:I'm also not comfortable sorting for SES to decipher test scores, and just leaving the lower SES OOB children with a less optimal education. It's better to have a high-performing peer group, and students who aren't up to grade level cause a lot of problems for the peer group, especially in the upper grades.

Your lamentation of "leaving behind" lower SES OOB kids and your comparison of performance to WOTP schools are inappropriate in this context. You want to know why Janney has near 100% 3+ scores instead of 50-60% like Shepherd? Because it has a 1% FARMS rate. They're leaving the low SES kids behind by not admitting them in the first place.

Regarding PARCC scores and statistics - DCPS publishes an enormous amount of data publicly that can be shredded out and analyzed however you want. It's worth noting that the sample size for Shepherd is small - generally about 40 kids per grade, compared with 80-110 at the WOTP schools, so the percentages are more likely to be skewed by single test takers.

If you want to actually see some remarkable data about Shepherd, you *do* need to get under the hood of that data. If you search by schools that have sufficient percentages to report per grade (ie: sample > 10) for African American test scores at 3+, you will find Shepherd among the highest in the city (alongside schools like Lafayette and Eaton). So, if closing the achievement gap is seen as a "progressive" goal, then maybe there's more going on at Shepherd than you'd like than you realize.

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what past, current, and prospective families think. I'm up for supporting our future school, but I don't want to fight an uphill battle if the current parents are happy with the status quo.

I think the neighborhood is generally a high achieving set of families, some of whom are new and some who are multi-generational (Shepherd alums). Each has their own stakes in the school and its continued improvement. The latter is generally better politically connected, and are the ones who have been able to get renovations to improve the overall school experience funded. I think the latter may be the noisier group to push for better test performance, etc...but that's just my opinion.

From your questions and statements, it sounds like you don't like the idea of a school where any kid is not high performing - but you also favor progressive teaching methods. These two are often at odds with each other, as prioritizing social-emotional and academic performance simultaneously is a significant task. I personally think that Shepherd does an acceptable job at this balance - but if you really want both, I suspect you will wind up at a very small, very expensive private school that approaches near-individual level instruction.

Honestly, I hope this helps. I would advise a school tour and discussion with a teacher or two to get a better sense of what the environment is like. If you are planning your child's education purely from one or two anecdotes, or worse yet, from this anonymous message board, you're surely selling your kid short. I know this board gets emotionally charged, but I'm trying to just give you the most rational perspective I can.

[Anonymous]

Wow, amazing 15:34!!
NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, amazing 15:34!!
NP

+1. Super detailed and even-keeled, and not as petty as I was ready to be, lol.

[Anonymous]

Lots of MD kids.