Trajectory for Shepherd Elementary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the EOTP schools have uniforms. Some of it is a holdover from when the demographics were different; some of it is parents in gentrifying neighborhoods liking uniforms for a variety of reasons. Brent has uniforms and has a sub 10% FARMS rate. Maury has uniforms at about 20%. It's pretty ingrained in their cultures at this point.

I think OP's point is that SP/CV is not a gentrifying neighborhood. However, until recently, it was mostly OOB. I heard it was mostly IB, but then became mostly OOB related to some issues that happened during Michelle Rhee's tenure. A neighbor told me that during this turmoil, there were like 6 principals in 2 years. There was a big split about the direction of the school, with some families wanting it to become dual-language and others wanting the International Bacc. program, and a lot of IB families pulled their kids out for private or WOTP schools. The reputation has continued to suffer until the last few years, when there's been renewed interest from IB families with young kids buying in the neighborhood. Some details of the Rhee situation here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101604350.html

SP is just as -- in fact, more -- "gentrifying" as the Brent neighborhood. The Brent neighborhood has lots of $2 million homes. Both have PK3 b/c 10-15 years ago, they weren't as well off. The point is that old habits die hard and schools that have had uniforms historically don't just auto-drop them when they get wealthier.

Um, no, Shepherd Park is not "gentrifying"--it has always been middle to upper middle class. Perhaps there are fewer truly middle class residents these days, but that's also true of WOTP neighborhoods, where teachers, etc. could afford to buy decades ago. Capitol Hill is a different story, and truly fits the definition of gentrification given the high concentration of poverty until recently.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gentrification

Brent neighborhood has never really "gentrified". You'd have to go farther towards the edges and beyond the historic district to find gentrification. It's been been a mix of high and moderate SES for decades. It's only in the past 10-15 years that families have taken hold and were willing to send their kids to their neighborhood public school.

Agree that it's not much of a comparator for Shepard. Both schools have uniforms fwiw

[Anonymous]

We didn’t live in the neighborhood when my child started school. We bought a house in CV and moved my child to Shepherd and now in an upper grade. We have really enjoyed it. The inbounds/oob is really a thing here on DCUM. I don’t find it to be an issue in reality. I think folks have a stereotype of oob kids as poorly behaved, low income AA/black kids, which is just that—- a stereotype! It’s an ugly stereotype too. People need to stop fearing poor people.

Why are the test scores lower than WotP? It isn’t because of the teaching because my child has always received 4s and 5s and we don’t do Kumon or anything else outside of school. I don’t think it’s fair to judge a school solely on test scores. It’s like judging a book by its cover!

As for the uniforms, it is such a non-issue. They really aren’t militant about adhering to the uniform. It’s really a great school. We have had nothing but a positive experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the EOTP schools have uniforms. Some of it is a holdover from when the demographics were different; some of it is parents in gentrifying neighborhoods liking uniforms for a variety of reasons. Brent has uniforms and has a sub 10% FARMS rate. Maury has uniforms at about 20%. It's pretty ingrained in their cultures at this point.

I think OP's point is that SP/CV is not a gentrifying neighborhood. However, until recently, it was mostly OOB. I heard it was mostly IB, but then became mostly OOB related to some issues that happened during Michelle Rhee's tenure. A neighbor told me that during this turmoil, there were like 6 principals in 2 years. There was a big split about the direction of the school, with some families wanting it to become dual-language and others wanting the International Bacc. program, and a lot of IB families pulled their kids out for private or WOTP schools. The reputation has continued to suffer until the last few years, when there's been renewed interest from IB families with young kids buying in the neighborhood. Some details of the Rhee situation here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101604350.html

OP here. Yes, thank you, I meant that SP/CV is and has been a higher SES neighborhood. And thanks for the background info regarding how we got here. Five principals in one year? No wonder there's been strife.

I didn't understand why Shepherd Elementary has many attributes of a lower-SES school such as low test scores, lack of progressive educational models, uniforms, etc. I think these attributes would need to change to attract more in boundary families who would stay through the upper grades, which would then raise the test scores.

But as some PP's indicated, it looks like the general feeling is that current Shepherd parents are happy with the status quo. I greatly appreciate this information as I likely wouldn't be.

I'm very concerned regarding the situation described with 10-12 warnings per day to a child. From my perspective, this indicates either a lack of effective teaching capabilities or unmet special needs (which goes back to a lack of effective teaching capabilities). In my experience, schools that do SPED well are also schools that generally do social emotional development well in general. I've heard several tales from current and past parents that indicate that Shepherd Elementary doesn't do social emotional development well. I'm so sorry to hear this isn't changing and that there's no push for this to change.

I'm also not comfortable sorting for SES to decipher test scores, and just leaving the lower SES OOB children with a less optimal education. It's better to have a high-performing peer group, and students who aren't up to grade level cause a lot of problems for the peer group, especially in the upper grades.

Another poster directed me to Lowell for more progressive teaching methodologies. I have to question why we can't demand these same methodologies for our public schools?

I'll add that Shepherd Elementary isn't just for current Shepherd parents; it's for all the in boundary families it's failing to serve too. But as I mentioned, I'm not willing to fight that uphill battle. Thanks to everyone for the information.

[Anonymous]

Agree with poster at 11:52. Go on a tour, talk with other parents on the playground, or show up at school events (Fallfest is this Saturday) to get direct feedback. You will probably run into current parents that will provide you with the pro's and cons of the school.

I am a current Shepherd parent and find many of the cons (mentioned already) stem from issues with DCPS as a whole and is not necessarily school specific.

[Anonymous]

"I'm very concerned regarding the situation described with 10-12 warnings per day to a child. From my perspective, this indicates either a lack of effective teaching capabilities or unmet special needs (which goes back to a lack of effective teaching capabilities)."

I'm not sure why this is concerning, especially for younger kids. Some 3, 4, and 5-year-olds need multiple redirections/warnings a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the EOTP schools have uniforms. Some of it is a holdover from when the demographics were different; some of it is parents in gentrifying neighborhoods liking uniforms for a variety of reasons. Brent has uniforms and has a sub 10% FARMS rate. Maury has uniforms at about 20%. It's pretty ingrained in their cultures at this point.

I think OP's point is that SP/CV is not a gentrifying neighborhood. However, until recently, it was mostly OOB. I heard it was mostly IB, but then became mostly OOB related to some issues that happened during Michelle Rhee's tenure. A neighbor told me that during this turmoil, there were like 6 principals in 2 years. There was a big split about the direction of the school, with some families wanting it to become dual-language and others wanting the International Bacc. program, and a lot of IB families pulled their kids out for private or WOTP schools. The reputation has continued to suffer until the last few years, when there's been renewed interest from IB families with young kids buying in the neighborhood. Some details of the Rhee situation here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101604350.html

OP here. Yes, thank you, I meant that SP/CV is and has been a higher SES neighborhood. And thanks for the background info regarding how we got here. Five principals in one year? No wonder there's been strife.

I didn't understand why Shepherd Elementary has many attributes of a lower-SES school such as low test scores, lack of progressive educational models, uniforms, etc. I think these attributes would need to change to attract more in boundary families who would stay through the upper grades, which would then raise the test scores.

But as some PP's indicated, it looks like the general feeling is that current Shepherd parents are happy with the status quo. I greatly appreciate this information as I likely wouldn't be.

I'm very concerned regarding the situation described with 10-12 warnings per day to a child. From my perspective, this indicates either a lack of effective teaching capabilities or unmet special needs (which goes back to a lack of effective teaching capabilities). In my experience, schools that do SPED well are also schools that generally do social emotional development well in general. I've heard several tales from current and past parents that indicate that Shepherd Elementary doesn't do social emotional development well. I'm so sorry to hear this isn't changing and that there's no push for this to change.

I'm also not comfortable sorting for SES to decipher test scores, and just leaving the lower SES OOB children with a less optimal education. It's better to have a high-performing peer group, and students who aren't up to grade level cause a lot of problems for the peer group, especially in the upper grades.

Another poster directed me to Lowell for more progressive teaching methodologies. I have to question why we can't demand these same methodologies for our public schools?

I'll add that Shepherd Elementary isn't just for current Shepherd parents; it's for all the in boundary families it's failing to serve too. But as I mentioned, I'm not willing to fight that uphill battle. Thanks to everyone for the information.

ok...you sound like you'll definitely be happier either at a charter or a private school. Progressive teaching methodologies? what exactly does that mean?

We are at Montessori so we clearly wanted a different methodology, but, if we'd been inbound for Shephard which has so many happy parents/students we might have at least given it a visit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with poster at 11:52. Go on a tour, talk with other parents on the playground, or show up at school events (Fallfest is this Saturday) to get direct feedback. You will probably run into current parents that will provide you with the pro's and cons of the school.

I am a current Shepherd parent and find many of the cons (mentioned already) stem from issues with DCPS as a whole and is not necessarily school specific.

Sounds like OP has already made up her mind, without even talking to any of her neighbors--a shame.

I don't love uniforms, nor do I like the optics of a public school system where most black and brown kids wear them and white WOTP kids don't have to. However, I'm probably a bit of a minority among Shepherd families--most people I know either like them for making mornings easy, or don't give them much thought. I don't see this as an acceptance of mediocrity at all, though--I think in general, Shepherd IB families tend to be a bit more laidback than most other Deal/Wilson feeder communities (see any Lafayette thread for comparison).

[Anonymous]

OP, I have a child in the lower grades and the socio-emotional learning component is very strong. Not sure about the upper grades, but I think they may be more focused on testing. Additionally, there is a movement afoot in the lower grades for more "progressive learning methods" so you would not be alone if you decide to go with Shepherd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the EOTP schools have uniforms. Some of it is a holdover from when the demographics were different; some of it is parents in gentrifying neighborhoods liking uniforms for a variety of reasons. Brent has uniforms and has a sub 10% FARMS rate. Maury has uniforms at about 20%. It's pretty ingrained in their cultures at this point.

I think OP's point is that SP/CV is not a gentrifying neighborhood. However, until recently, it was mostly OOB. I heard it was mostly IB, but then became mostly OOB related to some issues that happened during Michelle Rhee's tenure. A neighbor told me that during this turmoil, there were like 6 principals in 2 years. There was a big split about the direction of the school, with some families wanting it to become dual-language and others wanting the International Bacc. program, and a lot of IB families pulled their kids out for private or WOTP schools. The reputation has continued to suffer until the last few years, when there's been renewed interest from IB families with young kids buying in the neighborhood. Some details of the Rhee situation here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101604350.html

OP here. Yes, thank you, I meant that SP/CV is and has been a higher SES neighborhood. And thanks for the background info regarding how we got here. Five principals in one year? No wonder there's been strife.

I didn't understand why Shepherd Elementary has many attributes of a lower-SES school such as low test scores, lack of progressive educational models, uniforms, etc. I think these attributes would need to change to attract more in boundary families who would stay through the upper grades, which would then raise the test scores.

But as some PP's indicated, it looks like the general feeling is that current Shepherd parents are happy with the status quo. I greatly appreciate this information as I likely wouldn't be.

I'm very concerned regarding the situation described with 10-12 warnings per day to a child. From my perspective, this indicates either a lack of effective teaching capabilities or unmet special needs (which goes back to a lack of effective teaching capabilities). In my experience, schools that do SPED well are also schools that generally do social emotional development well in general. I've heard several tales from current and past parents that indicate that Shepherd Elementary doesn't do social emotional development well. I'm so sorry to hear this isn't changing and that there's no push for this to change.

I'm also not comfortable sorting for SES to decipher test scores, and just leaving the lower SES OOB children with a less optimal education. It's better to have a high-performing peer group, and students who aren't up to grade level cause a lot of problems for the peer group, especially in the upper grades.

Another poster directed me to Lowell for more progressive teaching methodologies. I have to question why we can't demand these same methodologies for our public schools?

I'll add that Shepherd Elementary isn't just for current Shepherd parents; it's for all the in boundary families it's failing to serve too. But as I mentioned, I'm not willing to fight that uphill battle. Thanks to everyone for the information.

No DCPS schools have this, just FYI. Also, Shepherd's scores align with the number of disadvantaged/at risk kids, and are comparable to or higher than many popular charters--CMI, ITS, etc.

[Anonymous]

I have two kids at Shepherd and man, I'd be bummed if they did away with uniforms. Agree that the administration is not super strict about them, which is nice.

I do think Shepherd leans more toward a traditional approach, though I think that is likely true of many, perhaps most, DCPS elementaries. When it comes to socio-emotional learning, however, I think it really depends on the teacher. One of the teachers in my older child's grade is great at this; the other one, not so much.

That said, there's certainly a lot of enthusiasm among early childhood parents, almost all of whom are in-bounds, about getting involved with the school and trying to make changes from within. So I'd say the approach could become more progressive in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with poster at 11:52. Go on a tour, talk with other parents on the playground, or show up at school events (Fallfest is this Saturday) to get direct feedback. You will probably run into current parents that will provide you with the pro's and cons of the school.

I am a current Shepherd parent and find many of the cons (mentioned already) stem from issues with DCPS as a whole and is not necessarily school specific.

Sounds like OP has already made up her mind, without even talking to any of her neighbors--a shame.

I don't love uniforms, nor do I like the optics of a public school system where most black and brown kids wear them and white WOTP kids don't have to. However, I'm probably a bit of a minority among Shepherd families--most people I know either like them for making mornings easy, or don't give them much thought. I don't see this as an acceptance of mediocrity at all, though--I think in general, Shepherd IB families tend to be a bit more laidback than most other Deal/Wilson feeder communities (see any Lafayette thread for comparison).

But they largely don’t enforce the uniform. I think it’s on it way out.

[Anonymous]

We just moved to Shepherd from a beloved charter school and love it.
Seems like only an upwards trajectory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with poster at 11:52. Go on a tour, talk with other parents on the playground, or show up at school events (Fallfest is this Saturday) to get direct feedback. You will probably run into current parents that will provide you with the pro's and cons of the school.

I am a current Shepherd parent and find many of the cons (mentioned already) stem from issues with DCPS as a whole and is not necessarily school specific.

Sounds like OP has already made up her mind, without even talking to any of her neighbors--a shame.

I don't love uniforms, nor do I like the optics of a public school system where most black and brown kids wear them and white WOTP kids don't have to. However, I'm probably a bit of a minority among Shepherd families--most people I know either like them for making mornings easy, or don't give them much thought. I don't see this as an acceptance of mediocrity at all, though--I think in general, Shepherd IB families tend to be a bit more laidback than most other Deal/Wilson feeder communities (see any Lafayette thread for comparison).

But they largely don’t enforce the uniform. I think it’s on it way out.

PP here and maybe so. Lots more kids wearing Shepherd tees etc., and it seems anything goes for some kids on Fridays.

I haven't spoken to Ms. Brawley about it, but I once raised it with her predecessor, Ms. Miles, and she seemed to indicate she didn't plan on getting rid of uniforms.

I think a lot of parents would have to raise it collectively to Ms. Brawley, since I don't think this is on her radar as an issue. I can't imagine this would happen anytime soon, though, given other more urgent issues that families are attending to.

[Anonymous]

I know 4 families in the last two year who moved to Shepard IB with young kids. I definitely think the IB population will continue to rise. the families I know all chose shepard specifcally for the Deal, Wilson feeder and are unlikely to leave at 4th grade. Slow but steady increase over the next ten years OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know 4 families in the last two year who moved to Shepard IB with young kids. I definitely think the IB population will continue to rise. the families I know all chose shepard specifcally for the Deal, Wilson feeder and are unlikely to leave at 4th grade. Slow but steady increase over the next ten years OP.

Yes--tons of families moving IB in the last 5 years with infants/toddlers. The PK3 waitlist has grown from like 6 IB kids to a couple dozen, I think, last year. There's definitely an ongoing baby boom in the neighborhood.