Who said there isn't a North-South divide?

[Anonymous]

It isn't just instruction, as noted above those kids don't have access to the same PTA and extras that wealthier schools do.

Moreover, even if you look at scores for "white" kids, which is really just a bad proxy for "non-disadvantaged," those scores are generally lower as well. So, it isn't just the English learners who are not achieving equal results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Serious question: which schools in FCPS, that have ELL populations and FARMS rates similar to south Arlington schools, are performing similar to schools like the N Arlington ones? The disparity exists, but doesn’t it exist in other places as well? Why is there never any talk of this in fairfax? Does AAP bolster some schools in a way that doesn’t happen in FCPS? I mean, there are schools in fairfax like Braddock road, Annandale terrace, lynbrook, Garfield, crest wood, Lee high school, etc. why doesn’t anyone bring those up? These disparities exist everywhere

Yes, it does, but Arlington is the smallest county in the nation. There is really no excuse for it to have the disparities that it has. Comparing it to Fairfax doesn't make much sense: Fairfax has 180,000 students, and APS has 25,700 students.

McLean trolls can defend themselves in schools discussions with the size of the County. They troll about how racist North Arlington residents are, then on RE forums talk about how great it is to have schools where everyone is a "high acheiver".

What are you talking about? It wasn’t people from McLean telling the School Board that Arlington Forest couldn’t possibly move to Wakefield.

I didn't say it was. I was referring to online s**t stirring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The how would you suggest trying to fix the problem?

I think the idea floated of moving the Immersion programs to Carlin Springs and Barcroft could be a step in the right direction because it would bring non-native Spanish speakers into those schools voluntarily. Unfortunately, that would also push neighborhood kids around those schools elsewhere, which would be a hardship for their families and could also make things worse at Randolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Serious question: which schools in FCPS, that have ELL populations and FARMS rates similar to south Arlington schools, are performing similar to schools like the N Arlington ones? The disparity exists, but doesn’t it exist in other places as well? Why is there never any talk of this in fairfax? Does AAP bolster some schools in a way that doesn’t happen in FCPS? I mean, there are schools in fairfax like Braddock road, Annandale terrace, lynbrook, Garfield, crest wood, Lee high school, etc. why doesn’t anyone bring those up? These disparities exist everywhere

Yes, it does, but Arlington is the smallest county in the nation. There is really no excuse for it to have the disparities that it has. Comparing it to Fairfax doesn't make much sense: Fairfax has 180,000 students, and APS has 25,700 students.

McLean trolls can defend themselves in schools discussions with the size of the County. They troll about how racist North Arlington residents are, then on RE forums talk about how great it is to have schools where everyone is a "high acheiver".

What are you talking about? It wasn’t people from McLean telling the School Board that Arlington Forest couldn’t possibly move to Wakefield.

I didn't say it was. I was referring to online s**t stirring.

And I was referring to online scapegoating. It’s not attractive to blame other people for your problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The how would you suggest trying to fix the problem?

Gentrification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Serious question: which schools in FCPS, that have ELL populations and FARMS rates similar to south Arlington schools, are performing similar to schools like the N Arlington ones? The disparity exists, but doesn’t it exist in other places as well? Why is there never any talk of this in fairfax? Does AAP bolster some schools in a way that doesn’t happen in FCPS? I mean, there are schools in fairfax like Braddock road, Annandale terrace, lynbrook, Garfield, crest wood, Lee high school, etc. why doesn’t anyone bring those up? These disparities exist everywhere

Yes, it does, but Arlington is the smallest county in the nation. There is really no excuse for it to have the disparities that it has. Comparing it to Fairfax doesn't make much sense: Fairfax has 180,000 students, and APS has 25,700 students.

McLean trolls can defend themselves in schools discussions with the size of the County. They troll about how racist North Arlington residents are, then on RE forums talk about how great it is to have schools where everyone is a "high acheiver".

What are you talking about? It wasn’t people from McLean telling the School Board that Arlington Forest couldn’t possibly move to Wakefield.

I didn't say it was. I was referring to online s**t stirring.

And I was referring to online scapegoating. It’s not attractive to blame other people for your problems.

Ah, I see I was right. People in Arlington should certainly address their problems together in real life. They should be aware when discussing them in an anon online forum, that there are people s**t stirring, either out of ideological dislike for Arlington, RE boosterism for other locales, or just because they are jerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It isn't just instruction, as noted above those kids don't have access to the same PTA and extras that wealthier schools do.

Moreover, even if you look at scores for "white" kids, which is really just a bad proxy for "non-disadvantaged," those scores are generally lower as well. So, it isn't just the English learners who are not achieving equal results.

Seriously? What's the budget of the average Northside elementary school? $100k/year? While they do some nice enrichment activities and maybe partially fund an assistant, it can't make up that much of a difference.

[Anonymous]

yes, they make a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.apsva.us/post/virginia-recognizes-14-arlington-schools-for-excellence-in-education/

With the exception of Glebe, all north Arlington schools at all three levels made the list. Not a one in south Arlington. Yep, all schools are equally good.

APS offers equal, even better resources as needed to schools in south Arlington. Change needs to happen in the homes to bring those school profiles up. Perhaps that is where you should direct your efforts, because widespread busing won’t be happening.

one teensy tiny suggestion: Maybe stop putting ALL of the new affordable housing projects south of Rte. 50.

The school board can only do so much when the county board just doesn’t care about the repercussions of their policies.

There is a lot the SB can do to mitigate the impacts of bad County policy. The SB just wont' do them. Why? Because some of them share the perspectives of the AH advocates insisting that all the poor people, or all the non-English speaking/ESL families need to be together as a community. Because they are elected and beholden to the voters who actually vote. Because they don't want to deal with backlash. Because they don't have the will or courage to lead rather than to be led and allow the tail to wag them -- ie, the community controls the SB dog. That's the Arlington Wag - I mean Way.

Yes, we are all capable of reading your rant on AEM.

Not my rant on AEM. So I guess I'm not the only one who shares this perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, it does, but Arlington is the smallest county in the nation. There is really no excuse for it to have the disparities that it has. Comparing it to Fairfax doesn't make much sense: Fairfax has 180,000 students, and APS has 25,700 students.

But in every other place people with money choose to live in certain areas to be at certain schools- McLean or great falls is an example. No one is chiding them for not taking more affordable housing into their attendance zones.

The disparity between north and south is not one of services at the schools or even facilities. Both parents in the north and south are advocating neighborhood schools. I would even argue that the teaching quality is higher at schools like barcroft because of student need. However these students take years to become proficient enough to do well on standardized tests as English learners and the tests are not well-designed for them. That doesn’t mean they are not receiving quality instruction.

I think that's mostly true but it also means that those kids are getting intensive SOL cramming - carlin springs for instance. It's a real turnoff for parents, UMC or otherwise, for whom passing a standardized test is a simple by product of paying attention in class, not an accomplishment. The pace of instruction is most definitely slower and that is a if reason, not racism or direct classism that The UMC avoids SA schools that aren't option schools. They are so segregated that it has thrown instruction out of balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't just instruction, as noted above those kids don't have access to the same PTA and extras that wealthier schools do.

Moreover, even if you look at scores for "white" kids, which is really just a bad proxy for "non-disadvantaged," those scores are generally lower as well. So, it isn't just the English learners who are not achieving equal results.

Seriously? What's the budget of the average Northside elementary school? $100k/year? While they do some nice enrichment activities and maybe partially fund an assistant, it can't make up that much of a difference.

Your comment comes off as coming from the perspective of someone who thinks 100K isn't all that grand and who is at a school with one of those budgets and as having absolutely no experience, familiarity, or understanding of a Title I school experience with PTA resources less than $40K, less than $20K, less than $10K. For starters:

More resources for classrooms - for additional/supplemental materials, classroom libraries, PE equipment, art supplies, etc.
More training for teachers
More, and better quality equipment
more, higher quality, broader variety enrichment opportunities
private music lessons (not a PTA budget - though perhaps it could be for students who can't afford them; but an example of opportunities the families' wealth provides and demonstrative of some of the differences impacting the school)
better quality musical instruments - ones that aren't in constant need of repair and taking away from instruction time, better quality and playability
ability to fill-in where the parents have deemed APS to have fallen short: like purchasing stage lights or $40K for shade covers for playgrounds, smartboards or upgraded smartboards while other schools were still waiting for initial smartboards (in the past)
More resources to pay for low-income students' participation in field trips and enrichment activities and therefore access to those things by more students
Mini-grants for teachers
Funding special academic and/or community service projects and initiatives
All the spillover effects on staff morale, school pride, and overall performance

Perhaps folks from schools with those $100K budgets can offer other things they do with that money - and folks from schools on the other end of the spectrum can indicate how similar it is for their students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, it does, but Arlington is the smallest county in the nation. There is really no excuse for it to have the disparities that it has. Comparing it to Fairfax doesn't make much sense: Fairfax has 180,000 students, and APS has 25,700 students.

But in every other place people with money choose to live in certain areas to be at certain schools- McLean or great falls is an example. No one is chiding them for not taking more affordable housing into their attendance zones.

The disparity between north and south is not one of services at the schools or even facilities. Both parents in the north and south are advocating neighborhood schools. I would even argue that the teaching quality is higher at schools like barcroft because of student need. However these students take years to become proficient enough to do well on standardized tests as English learners and the tests are not well-designed for them. That doesn’t mean they are not receiving quality instruction.

I think that's mostly true but it also means that those kids are getting intensive SOL cramming - carlin springs for instance. It's a real turnoff for parents, UMC or otherwise, for whom passing a standardized test is a simple by product of paying attention in class, not an accomplishment. The pace of instruction is most definitely slower and that is a if reason, not racism or direct classism that The UMC avoids SA schools that aren't option schools. They are so segregated that it has thrown instruction out of balance.

This, exactly. The teaching quality is absolutely equal, if not better. But the goalpost becomes the least common denominator rather than the same high goalpost kids at the other schools are being pushed toward. Pace of instruction is definitely different, as well as instructional opportunities like group projects, independent projects, or even just projects in general. These elementary schools don't put on theatrical productions or musicals. They aren't doing independent research papers or building science projects. Not because the students aren't capable - but because they have to spend more time being taught to the test and don't have time for more interesting or engaging academic instruction. They don't go as deep into subject matter because they are focused on that least common denominator. Therefore, those already above that denominator are not being pushed to their potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Serious question: which schools in FCPS, that have ELL populations and FARMS rates similar to south Arlington schools, are performing similar to schools like the N Arlington ones? The disparity exists, but doesn’t it exist in other places as well? Why is there never any talk of this in fairfax? Does AAP bolster some schools in a way that doesn’t happen in FCPS? I mean, there are schools in fairfax like Braddock road, Annandale terrace, lynbrook, Garfield, crest wood, Lee high school, etc. why doesn’t anyone bring those up? These disparities exist everywhere

Yes, it does, but Arlington is the smallest county in the nation. There is really no excuse for it to have the disparities that it has. Comparing it to Fairfax doesn't make much sense: Fairfax has 180,000 students, and APS has 25,700 students.

McLean trolls can defend themselves in schools discussions with the size of the County. They troll about how racist North Arlington residents are, then on RE forums talk about how great it is to have schools where everyone is a "high acheiver".

What are you talking about? It wasn’t people from McLean telling the School Board that Arlington Forest couldn’t possibly move to Wakefield.

I didn't say it was. I was referring to online s**t stirring.

And I was referring to online scapegoating. It’s not attractive to blame other people for your problems.

Ah, I see I was right. People in Arlington should certainly address their problems together in real life. They should be aware when discussing them in an anon online forum, that there are people s**t stirring, either out of ideological dislike for Arlington, RE boosterism for other locales, or just because they are jerks.

Calling you out for scapegoating is not the same as what you so delicately refer to as "s**t stiring." Why such a chip on your shoulder?

[Anonymous]

That was my experience exactly in a SA elementary. And the NA elementary was a drastically improved situation as described above as well. You nailed it.

[Anonymous]

PP's above nailed it all right. It is a whole different world in S.A schools.

I challenge any N.A. parent who disagrees to come to a S.A. school and check out the activities and PTA expenses. We are at a title I S.A. school. We have a little money to spend, but not much. And, we spend money on things like coat drives and basics for some of the families. Rather than after school enrichment, kids are taking extra SOL preps. Those who don't need it don't get access to enrichment those days because the school won't do anything unless ALL kids can do it.

Our classrooms are filled with old furniture. Our yard is weeds. All of our equipment in the class is old. We don't do plays or independent projects. Things are really basic here.