Fleeing APS schools for FFX County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
[Up]

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:






Anonymous wrote:
It depends on whether you can afford to buy into one of the better schools. FCPS has done a much better job than APS at pushing the worst of those issues into the schools people can least afford to leave.

How so? APS is very segregated and avoids demographic balance by claiming walk zones are a priority.

Right, but at least they're not (in most cases) making the overcrowded poor schools remain overcrowded without a boundary change, and they're not talking about doing split shifts only at Wakefield.

In FFX, they let Bailey's ES look like a favela for a very long time, only to relive them by moving half the kids into a foreclosed office building with no playground or gymnasium and calling it an "upper ES." They would not have dared propose such a solution at Chesterbrook.


Yes, this is what I’m talking about. A school system can’t do much about housing demographics. But if APS did what FCPS does, you wouldn’t see a trailer anywhere north of Route 50 even though they’d have all of the choice schools because the neighborhoods closest to Route 50 would be bused south to make more room for the north of Lee Highway folks.

Huh? If FCPS had issues similar to APS, they’d expand HB Woodlawn and convert it to a normal school, not spend a ton of money so a few hundred kids could have a private-school experience.





This.
FFX would never have the issues APS has, because as soon as they got too big, they would eliminate the choice programs and they would bus students as needed.


Which AAP centers did they disband in order to address overcrowding issues

?

I don't think they've disbanded any. I'm pretty sure they've just created more Level IV centers at additional schools so that there is less need for busing.

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

FCPS offered to build a new elementary school next to Glasgow MS, but the community declined this option.

[Anonymous]

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
[Up]

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It depends on whether you can afford to buy into one of the better schools. FCPS has done a much better job than APS at pushing the worst of those issues into the schools people can least afford to leave.

How so? APS is very segregated and avoids demographic balance by claiming walk zones are a priority.

Right, but at least they're not (in most cases) making the overcrowded poor schools remain overcrowded without a boundary change, and they're not talking about doing split shifts only at Wakefield.

In FFX, they let Bailey's ES look like a favela for a very long time, only to relive them by moving half the kids into a foreclosed office building with no playground or gymnasium and calling it an "upper ES." They would not have dared propose such a solution at Chesterbrook.


Yes, this is what I’m talking about. A school system can’t do much about housing demographics. But if APS did what FCPS does, you wouldn’t see a trailer anywhere north of Route 50 even though they’d have all of the choice schools because the neighborhoods closest to Route 50 would be bused south to make more room for the north of Lee Highway folks.

Huh? If FCPS had issues similar to APS, they’d expand HB Woodlawn and convert it to a normal school, not spend a ton of money so a few hundred kids could have a private-school experience.

This.
FFX would never have the issues APS has, because as soon as they got too big, they would eliminate the choice programs and they would bus students as needed.


Which AAP centers did they disband in order to address overcrowding issues

?

I don't think they've disbanded any. I'm pretty sure they've just created more Level IV centers at additional schools so that there is less need for busing.

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

FCPS offered to build a new elementary school next to Glasgow MS, but the community declined this option.

Are you talking about the proposal a few years ago to put an elementary school on a two-acre parel on Columbia Pike? That came up after Bailey's Upper was opened in the office building, so the office building wasn't a solution FCPS landed on after the community rejected the other site. Moreover, what you do you think an elementary school on 2 acres would look like? Bailey's Upper has 3.5 acres and still needed five stories and barely has outdoor space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

DP. I also don't really understand the analogy, beyond attacking AAP. And attacking Bailey's as a bonus.

FCPS builds more high schools. They don't have to disband TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

DP. I also don't really understand the analogy, beyond attacking AAP. And attacking Bailey's as a bonus.

FCPS builds more high schools. They don't have to disband TJ.

I'm not attacking AAP, I'm pointing out that pp is making stuff up when they claim that FCPS would disband choice programs before allowing overcrowding to exist at neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
[Up]

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It depends on whether you can afford to buy into one of the better schools. FCPS has done a much better job than APS at pushing the worst of those issues into the schools people can least afford to leave.

How so? APS is very segregated and avoids demographic balance by claiming walk zones are a priority.

Right, but at least they're not (in most cases) making the overcrowded poor schools remain overcrowded without a boundary change, and they're not talking about doing split shifts only at Wakefield.

In FFX, they let Bailey's ES look like a favela for a very long time, only to relive them by moving half the kids into a foreclosed office building with no playground or gymnasium and calling it an "upper ES." They would not have dared propose such a solution at Chesterbrook.


Yes, this is what I’m talking about. A school system can’t do much about housing demographics. But if APS did what FCPS does, you wouldn’t see a trailer anywhere north of Route 50 even though they’d have all of the choice schools because the neighborhoods closest to Route 50 would be bused south to make more room for the north of Lee Highway folks.

Huh? If FCPS had issues similar to APS, they’d expand HB Woodlawn and convert it to a normal school, not spend a ton of money so a few hundred kids could have a private-school experience.

This.
FFX would never have the issues APS has, because as soon as they got too big, they would eliminate the choice programs and they would bus students as needed.


Which AAP centers did they disband in order to address overcrowding issues

?

I don't think they've disbanded any. I'm pretty sure they've just created more Level IV centers at additional schools so that there is less need for busing.

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

FCPS offered to build a new elementary school next to Glasgow MS, but the community declined this option.

Are you talking about the proposal a few years ago to put an elementary school on a two-acre parel on Columbia Pike? That came up after Bailey's Upper was opened in the office building, so the office building wasn't a solution FCPS landed on after the community rejected the other site. Moreover, what you do you think an elementary school on 2 acres would look like? Bailey's Upper has 3.5 acres and still needed five stories and barely has outdoor space.

No, this proposal predates the small parcel on Columbia Pike, which was made in 2015. In 2012-2013 FCPS proposed building next to Glasgow Middle School. See https://annandaleva.blogspot.com/2012/12/new-elementary-school-proposed-for.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

DP. I also don't really understand the analogy, beyond attacking AAP. And attacking Bailey's as a bonus.

FCPS builds more high schools. They don't have to disband TJ.

I'm not attacking AAP, I'm pointing out that pp is making stuff up when they claim that FCPS would disband choice programs before allowing overcrowding to exist at neighborhood schools.

New poster: But AAP is often a solution to overcrowding as in many locations centers add kids to a lower enrolled center school and take from higher enrollment base schools. When things get out of whack due to demographics/popularity of a given center, FCPS has adjusted these--by creating Local AAP programs, and changing boundaries. It gives more flexibility around overcrowding rather than less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

DP. I also don't really understand the analogy, beyond attacking AAP. And attacking Bailey's as a bonus.

FCPS builds more high schools. They don't have to disband TJ.

I'm not attacking AAP, I'm pointing out that pp is making stuff up when they claim that FCPS would disband choice programs before allowing overcrowding to exist at neighborhood schools.

My point was, APS needs to build a 4th high school. Then no one will complain about HB Woodlawn.

FCPS doesn't have that problem, because FCPS builds more high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
[Up]

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It depends on whether you can afford to buy into one of the better schools. FCPS has done a much better job than APS at pushing the worst of those issues into the schools people can least afford to leave.

How so? APS is very segregated and avoids demographic balance by claiming walk zones are a priority.

Right, but at least they're not (in most cases) making the overcrowded poor schools remain overcrowded without a boundary change, and they're not talking about doing split shifts only at Wakefield.

In FFX, they let Bailey's ES look like a favela for a very long time, only to relive them by moving half the kids into a foreclosed office building with no playground or gymnasium and calling it an "upper ES." They would not have dared propose such a solution at Chesterbrook.


Yes, this is what I’m talking about. A school system can’t do much about housing demographics. But if APS did what FCPS does, you wouldn’t see a trailer anywhere north of Route 50 even though they’d have all of the choice schools because the neighborhoods closest to Route 50 would be bused south to make more room for the north of Lee Highway folks.

Huh? If FCPS had issues similar to APS, they’d expand HB Woodlawn and convert it to a normal school, not spend a ton of money so a few hundred kids could have a private-school experience.

This.
FFX would never have the issues APS has, because as soon as they got too big, they would eliminate the choice programs and they would bus students as needed.


Which AAP centers did they disband in order to address overcrowding issues

?

I don't think they've disbanded any. I'm pretty sure they've just created more Level IV centers at additional schools so that there is less need for busing.

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

FCPS offered to build a new elementary school next to Glasgow MS, but the community declined this option.

Are you talking about the proposal a few years ago to put an elementary school on a two-acre parel on Columbia Pike? That came up after Bailey's Upper was opened in the office building, so the office building wasn't a solution FCPS landed on after the community rejected the other site. Moreover, what you do you think an elementary school on 2 acres would look like? Bailey's Upper has 3.5 acres and still needed five stories and barely has outdoor space.

No, this proposal predates the small parcel on Columbia Pike, which was made in 2015. In 2012-2013 FCPS proposed building next to Glasgow Middle School. See https://annandaleva.blogspot.com/2012/12/new-elementary-school-proposed-for.html

Your point being? Then end result is that FCPS gave in to the community, didn't build the needed school, and ended up with a sub-par result that didn't touch any choice programs, including AAP. I have no idea how this is supposed to prove that if APS were run like FCPS, they would turn HB into a neighborhood school and add more seats because that's not what they did with Baileys in any way, shape or form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

DP. I also don't really understand the analogy, beyond attacking AAP. And attacking Bailey's as a bonus.

FCPS builds more high schools. They don't have to disband TJ.

I'm not attacking AAP, I'm pointing out that pp is making stuff up when they claim that FCPS would disband choice programs before allowing overcrowding to exist at neighborhood schools.

My point was, APS needs to build a 4th high school. Then no one will complain about HB Woodlawn.

FCPS doesn't have that problem, because FCPS builds more high schools.

If you'd been following the CIP process, it's pretty clear APS is going to build the fourth high school despite neighborhood opposition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

DP. I also don't really understand the analogy, beyond attacking AAP. And attacking Bailey's as a bonus.

FCPS builds more high schools. They don't have to disband TJ.

I'm not attacking AAP, I'm pointing out that pp is making stuff up when they claim that FCPS would disband choice programs before allowing overcrowding to exist at neighborhood schools.

My point was, APS needs to build a 4th high school. Then no one will complain about HB Woodlawn.

FCPS doesn't have that problem, because FCPS builds more high schools.

If you'd been following the CIP process, it's pretty clear APS is going to build the fourth high school despite neighborhood opposition.

I have been following the process, but none of it is clear to me. Where are they going to build it? It seemed like all the potential places were vetoed or wouldn't work, for one reason or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

That’s kind of a non-sequitur. HB is far more disruptive in terms of its impact on (not) addressing capacity issues in APS than TJ is. TJ is not the smallest high school in the county and 70% of the kids are county residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
[Up]

Anonymous

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It depends on whether you can afford to buy into one of the better schools. FCPS has done a much better job than APS at pushing the worst of those issues into the schools people can least afford to leave.

How so? APS is very segregated and avoids demographic balance by claiming walk zones are a priority.

Right, but at least they're not (in most cases) making the overcrowded poor schools remain overcrowded without a boundary change, and they're not talking about doing split shifts only at Wakefield.

In FFX, they let Bailey's ES look like a favela for a very long time, only to relive them by moving half the kids into a foreclosed office building with no playground or gymnasium and calling it an "upper ES." They would not have dared propose such a solution at Chesterbrook.


Yes, this is what I’m talking about. A school system can’t do much about housing demographics. But if APS did what FCPS does, you wouldn’t see a trailer anywhere north of Route 50 even though they’d have all of the choice schools because the neighborhoods closest to Route 50 would be bused south to make more room for the north of Lee Highway folks.

Huh? If FCPS had issues similar to APS, they’d expand HB Woodlawn and convert it to a normal school, not spend a ton of money so a few hundred kids could have a private-school experience.

This.
FFX would never have the issues APS has, because as soon as they got too big, they would eliminate the choice programs and they would bus students as needed.


Which AAP centers did they disband in order to address overcrowding issues

?

I don't think they've disbanded any. I'm pretty sure they've just created more Level IV centers at additional schools so that there is less need for busing.

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

FCPS offered to build a new elementary school next to Glasgow MS, but the community declined this option.

Are you talking about the proposal a few years ago to put an elementary school on a two-acre parel on Columbia Pike? That came up after Bailey's Upper was opened in the office building, so the office building wasn't a solution FCPS landed on after the community rejected the other site. Moreover, what you do you think an elementary school on 2 acres would look like? Bailey's Upper has 3.5 acres and still needed five stories and barely has outdoor space.

No, this proposal predates the small parcel on Columbia Pike, which was made in 2015. In 2012-2013 FCPS proposed building next to Glasgow Middle School. See https://annandaleva.blogspot.com/2012/12/new-elementary-school-proposed-for.html

Your point being? Then end result is that FCPS gave in to the community, didn't build the needed school, and ended up with a sub-par result that didn't touch any choice programs, including AAP. I have no idea how this is supposed to prove that if APS were run like FCPS, they would turn HB into a neighborhood school and add more seats because that's not what they did with Baileys in any way, shape or form.

Bailey’s Upper is a fantastic facility in many respects. The idea of building near Glasgow was just one alternative considered and, had other opportunities not presented themselves, it might have been considered further. FCPS has other locations where multiple schools are in close proximity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ah, so AAP is untouchable for dealing with overcrowding, and instead it was better to put kids in an office building whose outdoor space was some four-square grids drawn on a blacktop. Got it.

I don't understand this. What is being described here?
In instances where AAP centers have resulted in overcrowding, FFX has created new AAP centers, redrawn the AAP lines, and also created Level IV programs at feeder schools. AAP has not been "untouchable."

PP has asserted that if FCPS faced the kinds of overcrowding APS is, it would disband choice programs and turn them into expanded neighborhood schools to accommodate more students. AAP is a choice program, and yet when FCPS has faced terrible overcrowding, it hasn't disbanded those programs in order to better manage neighborhood school capacity.

When FCPS considers disbanding TJ to deal with overcrowding, then you can talk about HB Woodlawn.

DP. I also don't really understand the analogy, beyond attacking AAP. And attacking Bailey's as a bonus.

FCPS builds more high schools. They don't have to disband TJ.

I'm not attacking AAP, I'm pointing out that pp is making stuff up when they claim that FCPS would disband choice programs before allowing overcrowding to exist at neighborhood schools.

My point was, APS needs to build a 4th high school. Then no one will complain about HB Woodlawn.

FCPS doesn't have that problem, because FCPS builds more high schools.

If you'd been following the CIP process, it's pretty clear APS is going to build the fourth high school despite neighborhood opposition.

I have been following the process, but none of it is clear to me. Where are they going to build it? It seemed like all the potential places were vetoed or wouldn't work, for one reason or another.

Every single scenario in this CIP, including the latest revision from Tuesday's work session, have included a high school at the Career Center site.