Faith and the Reward of Heaven

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

I think it is beautiful that God gives the opportunity of redemption to even a hardened sinner.

Think of Jesus on the cross. The sinner at His side who repented and believed was told by Christ that today he woukd be with Jesus in paradise.

That hopefulness that even the most worthless soul can be redeemed by good and through God's love and mercy is a wonderful and beautiful thing and far better than a god who is al about vengeance, punishment and an eye for an eye.

I don't find it beautiful. I think it tends to attract a corrupt person who isn't really conscientious of their actions, and doesn't care about others, because they'll be "saved." I think it appeals to certain people who are more selfishly minded, and I understand the appeal. But I don't understand it from perspective of respect for your fellow humanity.

The goal of God is salvation of humanity. All people. All races. God doesn’t discriminate. If that’s selfish then what is fairness?

Fairness, as I was taught, is the sum of the actions in your lifetime. Not a button you can reset all the time by repenting. Generally I still believe this, but without a belief in an afterlife. We can be better, we can know better with regards to our fellow humans, we can do better... but it doesn't negate our past behaviors.

But as mentioned, I no longer believe in religion. A God creating a game for his entertainment (with a goal of salvation, or what not) is absurd to me.

So if you kill another person but then do lots of good deeds you tip the scales back to your favor?

As I was taught, that's up for God to decide, and you won't know which way the scales tip until you die. But your sins are never cleared.

As an adult who doesn't believe in any religion or God, I think similarly - your slate is never wiped clean. The best you can do is learn from your mistakes and go forward to try and serve your humanity better. And when you die, you die. The end.

How many murderers and rapists actually commit such crimes and then decide to go forward and be a good person? They kill or rape and then commit to serving humanity?

No idea.

But I've always been disturbed by the idea that someone can kill and murder, accept Jesus and be "saved" and then they can go to heaven. People can talk all they want about their "heart" being different, but ultimately the proof is in the actions and the kind of person you are to your fellow humans going forward. I have always found the "saved" aspect disturbing and weird. I know it works for some people, but I'm being completely honest - I find it a pretty abhorrent perspective that many people abuse so they can avoid responsibility and reflection on their past.

As people upthread said- you can't fool God. The behavior you are describing has nothing to do with Christianity. People who are "abusing" the redemption story by just treating people crappy and refusing to reflect or accept responsibility for their actions can say they are doing the Christian thing all they want, but they are not. That is like me saying I am a vegetarian and eating meat everyday. I can say whatever I want, but I am not a vegetarian.

I am always amazed at how many people think Christian theology is just stupid. Like really, you think people who behave that way are following Christian doctrine properly?

I get that, but to me, focusing on God's forgiveness/salvation/saving/etc in this life is pretty pointless. If you believe in God, they're going to judge what they're going to judge when you die.

The focus to me (both growing up Muslim, and as an atheist now) is making sure our actions matter to our fellow humans. If we work in accordance with our communities, the rest will work itself out.

I don't think all Christians are stupid, but surely you know that there are some people who will abuse tenets in their favor, to justify whatever. But people will find a loophole to justify sh!tty behavior in all religions, not just Christianity. What I think some people are alluding to is the "accept Jesus as your savior before you die and you get in to heaven" thing. You live a crappy, hurtful life to others for 70 years, and in your last month/days you repent and you get into heaven? WTF?! I can't believe in any system that works like that.

You don’t have to believe. You aren’t being forced to believe. The only thing you should do- but still not forced to do- is accept that we all worship in different ways and believe different things. Christianity clearly doesn’t make sense to you, as you have stated in comment after comment. I understand that, but that doesn’t change Christianity or anyone else’s belief in it.

We agree to disagree.

Thank you for understanding that though someone does not agree or has difficulty understanding a perspective, that it doesn't make them some kind of hate-monger. A lot of times people on this forum take an inability to agree philosophically, as some kind of personal attack.

NP. Your disagreement is based on a fundamental misunderstanding the Christian concept of "salvation." Although multiple posters have tried to clarify for you, you don't seem to be reading the responses.

Your problem seems to be your perception that salvation is a "get out of jail free" card that you can invoke at the end of your life. As multiple previous posters have said, that's not true. Hypocrisy doesn't get you into heaven, nor does planning to be a bad person for your first 80 years and then "repenting" for your final year, nor does proclaiming yourself "Christian" without changing your behavior help you get into heaven.

In other words, Christians would agree with you that deathbed conversions won't get you into heaven. There's no disagreement here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

I think it is beautiful that God gives the opportunity of redemption to even a hardened sinner.

Think of Jesus on the cross. The sinner at His side who repented and believed was told by Christ that today he woukd be with Jesus in paradise.

That hopefulness that even the most worthless soul can be redeemed by good and through God's love and mercy is a wonderful and beautiful thing and far better than a god who is al about vengeance, punishment and an eye for an eye.

I don't find it beautiful. I think it tends to attract a corrupt person who isn't really conscientious of their actions, and doesn't care about others, because they'll be "saved." I think it appeals to certain people who are more selfishly minded, and I understand the appeal. But I don't understand it from perspective of respect for your fellow humanity.

The goal of God is salvation of humanity. All people. All races. God doesn’t discriminate. If that’s selfish then what is fairness?

Fairness, as I was taught, is the sum of the actions in your lifetime. Not a button you can reset all the time by repenting. Generally I still believe this, but without a belief in an afterlife. We can be better, we can know better with regards to our fellow humans, we can do better... but it doesn't negate our past behaviors.

But as mentioned, I no longer believe in religion. A God creating a game for his entertainment (with a goal of salvation, or what not) is absurd to me.

So if you kill another person but then do lots of good deeds you tip the scales back to your favor?

As I was taught, that's up for God to decide, and you won't know which way the scales tip until you die. But your sins are never cleared.

As an adult who doesn't believe in any religion or God, I think similarly - your slate is never wiped clean. The best you can do is learn from your mistakes and go forward to try and serve your humanity better. And when you die, you die. The end.

How many murderers and rapists actually commit such crimes and then decide to go forward and be a good person? They kill or rape and then commit to serving humanity?

No idea.

But I've always been disturbed by the idea that someone can kill and murder, accept Jesus and be "saved" and then they can go to heaven. People can talk all they want about their "heart" being different, but ultimately the proof is in the actions and the kind of person you are to your fellow humans going forward. I have always found the "saved" aspect disturbing and weird. I know it works for some people, but I'm being completely honest - I find it a pretty abhorrent perspective that many people abuse so they can avoid responsibility and reflection on their past.

As people upthread said- you can't fool God. The behavior you are describing has nothing to do with Christianity. People who are "abusing" the redemption story by just treating people crappy and refusing to reflect or accept responsibility for their actions can say they are doing the Christian thing all they want, but they are not. That is like me saying I am a vegetarian and eating meat everyday. I can say whatever I want, but I am not a vegetarian.

I am always amazed at how many people think Christian theology is just stupid. Like really, you think people who behave that way are following Christian doctrine properly?

I get that, but to me, focusing on God's forgiveness/salvation/saving/etc in this life is pretty pointless. If you believe in God, they're going to judge what they're going to judge when you die.

The focus to me (both growing up Muslim, and as an atheist now) is making sure our actions matter to our fellow humans. If we work in accordance with our communities, the rest will work itself out.

I don't think all Christians are stupid, but surely you know that there are some people who will abuse tenets in their favor, to justify whatever. But people will find a loophole to justify sh!tty behavior in all religions, not just Christianity. What I think some people are alluding to is the "accept Jesus as your savior before you die and you get in to heaven" thing. You live a crappy, hurtful life to others for 70 years, and in your last month/days you repent and you get into heaven? WTF?! I can't believe in any system that works like that.

You don’t have to believe. You aren’t being forced to believe. The only thing you should do- but still not forced to do- is accept that we all worship in different ways and believe different things. Christianity clearly doesn’t make sense to you, as you have stated in comment after comment. I understand that, but that doesn’t change Christianity or anyone else’s belief in it.

We agree to disagree.

Thank you for understanding that though someone does not agree or has difficulty understanding a perspective, that it doesn't make them some kind of hate-monger. A lot of times people on this forum take an inability to agree philosophically, as some kind of personal attack.

NP. Your disagreement is based on a fundamental misunderstanding the Christian concept of "salvation." Although multiple posters have tried to clarify for you, you don't seem to be reading the responses.

Your problem seems to be your perception that salvation is a "get out of jail free" card that you can invoke at the end of your life. As multiple previous posters have said, that's not true. Hypocrisy doesn't get you into heaven, nor does planning to be a bad person for your first 80 years and then "repenting" for your final year, nor does proclaiming yourself "Christian" without changing your behavior help you get into heaven.

In other words, Christians would agree with you that deathbed conversions won't get you into heaven. There's no disagreement here.

+1

[Anonymous]

Atheist Muslim,

Perhaps a metaphor will help you to understand.

Christians view God's love and forgiveness as being like the love of a loving parent.

A parent loves their child unconditionally. They might be disappointed or sad when their child does wrong, but they do not stop loving their child or hoping that their child will turn their life around and choose what is good.

Loving parents love their kids even when they are bad. They stand by them through some awful things. They never give up hope that their child will choose the right path and when a fallen child picks them self up, changes their way and pulls themselves together and makes thing right, a loving parent is there to forgive them and welcome them back.

That is God's love and mercy.

There are countless lessons in the Bible about God welcoming back the prodigal son, or the Shepard going after the lost lambs.

Perfect God does not give up on us in our imperfections. He loves us and wants to welcome us back to H8m, even if we sin. Especially if we sin. Like a parent loves and never truly gives up on their child, God truly never gives up on us

On a side note, I am Catholic and we believe that there is a place called purgatory, where our souls are purified of our sins in preparation of joining God in heaven. So I as a sinner will likely have some atonement to do in purgatory before reaching the fullness of Heaven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

I think it is beautiful that God gives the opportunity of redemption to even a hardened sinner.

Think of Jesus on the cross. The sinner at His side who repented and believed was told by Christ that today he woukd be with Jesus in paradise.

That hopefulness that even the most worthless soul can be redeemed by good and through God's love and mercy is a wonderful and beautiful thing and far better than a god who is al about vengeance, punishment and an eye for an eye.

I don't find it beautiful. I think it tends to attract a corrupt person who isn't really conscientious of their actions, and doesn't care about others, because they'll be "saved." I think it appeals to certain people who are more selfishly minded, and I understand the appeal. But I don't understand it from perspective of respect for your fellow humanity.

The goal of God is salvation of humanity. All people. All races. God doesn’t discriminate. If that’s selfish then what is fairness?

Fairness, as I was taught, is the sum of the actions in your lifetime. Not a button you can reset all the time by repenting. Generally I still believe this, but without a belief in an afterlife. We can be better, we can know better with regards to our fellow humans, we can do better... but it doesn't negate our past behaviors.

But as mentioned, I no longer believe in religion. A God creating a game for his entertainment (with a goal of salvation, or what not) is absurd to me.

So if you kill another person but then do lots of good deeds you tip the scales back to your favor?

As I was taught, that's up for God to decide, and you won't know which way the scales tip until you die. But your sins are never cleared.

As an adult who doesn't believe in any religion or God, I think similarly - your slate is never wiped clean. The best you can do is learn from your mistakes and go forward to try and serve your humanity better. And when you die, you die. The end.

How many murderers and rapists actually commit such crimes and then decide to go forward and be a good person? They kill or rape and then commit to serving humanity?

No idea.

But I've always been disturbed by the idea that someone can kill and murder, accept Jesus and be "saved" and then they can go to heaven. People can talk all they want about their "heart" being different, but ultimately the proof is in the actions and the kind of person you are to your fellow humans going forward. I have always found the "saved" aspect disturbing and weird. I know it works for some people, but I'm being completely honest - I find it a pretty abhorrent perspective that many people abuse so they can avoid responsibility and reflection on their past.

As people upthread said- you can't fool God. The behavior you are describing has nothing to do with Christianity. People who are "abusing" the redemption story by just treating people crappy and refusing to reflect or accept responsibility for their actions can say they are doing the Christian thing all they want, but they are not. That is like me saying I am a vegetarian and eating meat everyday. I can say whatever I want, but I am not a vegetarian.

I am always amazed at how many people think Christian theology is just stupid. Like really, you think people who behave that way are following Christian doctrine properly?

I get that, but to me, focusing on God's forgiveness/salvation/saving/etc in this life is pretty pointless. If you believe in God, they're going to judge what they're going to judge when you die.

The focus to me (both growing up Muslim, and as an atheist now) is making sure our actions matter to our fellow humans. If we work in accordance with our communities, the rest will work itself out.

I don't think all Christians are stupid, but surely you know that there are some people who will abuse tenets in their favor, to justify whatever. But people will find a loophole to justify sh!tty behavior in all religions, not just Christianity. What I think some people are alluding to is the "accept Jesus as your savior before you die and you get in to heaven" thing. You live a crappy, hurtful life to others for 70 years, and in your last month/days you repent and you get into heaven? WTF?! I can't believe in any system that works like that.

You don’t have to believe. You aren’t being forced to believe. The only thing you should do- but still not forced to do- is accept that we all worship in different ways and believe different things. Christianity clearly doesn’t make sense to you, as you have stated in comment after comment. I understand that, but that doesn’t change Christianity or anyone else’s belief in it.

We agree to disagree.

Thank you for understanding that though someone does not agree or has difficulty understanding a perspective, that it doesn't make them some kind of hate-monger. A lot of times people on this forum take an inability to agree philosophically, as some kind of personal attack.

NP. Your disagreement is based on a fundamental misunderstanding the Christian concept of "salvation." Although multiple posters have tried to clarify for you, you don't seem to be reading the responses.

Your problem seems to be your perception that salvation is a "get out of jail free" card that you can invoke at the end of your life. As multiple previous posters have said, that's not true. Hypocrisy doesn't get you into heaven, nor does planning to be a bad person for your first 80 years and then "repenting" for your final year, nor does proclaiming yourself "Christian" without changing your behavior help you get into heaven.

In other words, Christians would agree with you that deathbed conversions won't get you into heaven. There's no disagreement here.

I'm glad that you believe "deathbed conversations" won't get you into heaven. Some Christians do believe this, however - maybe not many or most, but some do. Like I said upthread, there will be people of every faith (not just Christianity) who will abuse tenets to their favored attitude. But then again, everyone thinks they're "right."

My disagreement is not based on a "fundamental misunderstanding" - for some people they get it. Others do not. There's a fundamental difference of belief in Christianity vs. Islam, and I simply will never understand the point of salvation, or Jesus as savior. His role in Christianity is pointless to me. The whole plot is needless, from my perspective (generally more simplified: God created the earth, leaves us completely to our devices, sends a few human teachers/prophets now and then, judges us when we die). I also understand that this worldview probably doesn't make sense to Christians or others (and it doesn't make sense to me as an Atheist now, stepping 'out' of the system).

All belief systems and their veracity are clouded by our personal experiences and upbringing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Atheist Muslim,

Perhaps a metaphor will help you to understand.

Christians view God's love and forgiveness as being like the love of a loving parent.

A parent loves their child unconditionally. They might be disappointed or sad when their child does wrong, but they do not stop loving their child or hoping that their child will turn their life around and choose what is good.

Loving parents love their kids even when they are bad. They stand by them through some awful things. They never give up hope that their child will choose the right path and when a fallen child picks them self up, changes their way and pulls themselves together and makes thing right, a loving parent is there to forgive them and welcome them back.

That is God's love and mercy.

There are countless lessons in the Bible about God welcoming back the prodigal son, or the Shepard going after the lost lambs.

Perfect God does not give up on us in our imperfections. He loves us and wants to welcome us back to H8m, even if we sin. Especially if we sin. Like a parent loves and never truly gives up on their child, God truly never gives up on us

On a side note, I am Catholic and we believe that there is a place called purgatory, where our souls are purified of our sins in preparation of joining God in heaven. So I as a sinner will likely have some atonement to do in purgatory before reaching the fullness of Heaven.

I get that.

But I can't wrap my head around a God that is just the God of love. If God is the God of *everything* then they are the God of hate, as well as love. Peace, as well as war. The god of Evil, as well as Goodness. The God of suffering, as well as repair. They can't be a comprehensive God and creator of *everything* then.

That isn't so much a belief in Islam (although somewhat), so much as my attitude now. It will never click in my brain, though I understand how your perspective gives comfort to many.

[Anonymous]

God’s endgame is for only love and peace to exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here...

Just to clarify, it was the Christians the other post that I was specifically thinking of. They seem to be the most focused on an afterlife and post-life rewards and consequences.

Of course, I include all other people in faiths that are equally focused on the afterlife that I am equally skeptical of.

I just wonder what these people would be like if they weren't promised an afterlife?

I thought Islam has a big after life incentive of a bunch of virgins?

Mormons get a planet.

Hindus get to keep coming back until they become a cow.

You are posting because you are anti Christian not because you are curious about all faiths and their view of the afterlife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...

Just to clarify, it was the Christians the other post that I was specifically thinking of. They seem to be the most focused on an afterlife and post-life rewards and consequences.

Of course, I include all other people in faiths that are equally focused on the afterlife that I am equally skeptical of.

I just wonder what these people would be like if they weren't promised an afterlife?

I thought Islam has a big after life incentive of a bunch of virgins?

Mormons get a planet.

Hindus get to keep coming back until they become a cow.

You are posting because you are anti Christian not because you are curious about all faiths and their view of the afterlife.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God’s endgame is for only love and peace to exist.

Yes.

And hell is complete absence of this and separation from God and pure goodness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist Muslim,

Perhaps a metaphor will help you to understand.

Christians view God's love and forgiveness as being like the love of a loving parent.

A parent loves their child unconditionally. They might be disappointed or sad when their child does wrong, but they do not stop loving their child or hoping that their child will turn their life around and choose what is good.

Loving parents love their kids even when they are bad. They stand by them through some awful things. They never give up hope that their child will choose the right path and when a fallen child picks them self up, changes their way and pulls themselves together and makes thing right, a loving parent is there to forgive them and welcome them back.

That is God's love and mercy.

There are countless lessons in the Bible about God welcoming back the prodigal son, or the Shepard going after the lost lambs.

Perfect God does not give up on us in our imperfections. He loves us and wants to welcome us back to H8m, even if we sin. Especially if we sin. Like a parent loves and never truly gives up on their child, God truly never gives up on us

On a side note, I am Catholic and we believe that there is a place called purgatory, where our souls are purified of our sins in preparation of joining God in heaven. So I as a sinner will likely have some atonement to do in purgatory before reaching the fullness of Heaven.

I get that.

But I can't wrap my head around a God that is just the God of love. If God is the God of *everything* then they are the God of hate, as well as love. Peace, as well as war. The god of Evil, as well as Goodness. The God of suffering, as well as repair. They can't be a comprehensive God and creator of *everything* then.

That isn't so much a belief in Islam (although somewhat), so much as my attitude now. It will never click in my brain, though I understand how your perspective gives comfort to many.

You know...I gave you a benefit of doubt. People have very nicely and calmly summarized knowledge of the Bible in two threads for you. You are not reading their posts or caring to understand. You also do not discuss "deficiencies" of other religions (all religions have common themes). This leads me to believe that you intent isn't to understand Christianity, it is to discredit and ridicule Christianity (and Judaism at certain Hebrew Bible/Old Testament topics).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God’s endgame is for only love and peace to exist.

Atheist Muslim here. The same belief exists in Islam - many non-Muslims do not know that Jesus is also the messiah in Islam. Muslims too, are awaiting Jesus' return in a triumph of goodness (but Muslims belief him to be a prophet and agent of God, not divine himself).

At this point in life, I cannot find belief in the "game," period - no matter the specific faith.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if this applies to a former boss of mine, 20+ years ago. She considered herself a good Christian. Attended church every Sunday.

However, she was suspicious of other cultures. If a person wasn't white she had an issue. Helping anyone less fortunate was beneath her. She would put a can of soup in the Food Bank collection box at Christmas because people were watching. She asked their Minister not to marry her daughter and fiance because he wasn't raised with Christianity.

Overall, I didn't consider her a good person. But she went to church every Sunday and was sure she was going to Heaven.

Last minute redemption?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist Muslim,

Perhaps a metaphor will help you to understand.

Christians view God's love and forgiveness as being like the love of a loving parent.

A parent loves their child unconditionally. They might be disappointed or sad when their child does wrong, but they do not stop loving their child or hoping that their child will turn their life around and choose what is good.

Loving parents love their kids even when they are bad. They stand by them through some awful things. They never give up hope that their child will choose the right path and when a fallen child picks them self up, changes their way and pulls themselves together and makes thing right, a loving parent is there to forgive them and welcome them back.

That is God's love and mercy.

There are countless lessons in the Bible about God welcoming back the prodigal son, or the Shepard going after the lost lambs.

Perfect God does not give up on us in our imperfections. He loves us and wants to welcome us back to H8m, even if we sin. Especially if we sin. Like a parent loves and never truly gives up on their child, God truly never gives up on us

On a side note, I am Catholic and we believe that there is a place called purgatory, where our souls are purified of our sins in preparation of joining God in heaven. So I as a sinner will likely have some atonement to do in purgatory before reaching the fullness of Heaven.

I get that.

But I can't wrap my head around a God that is just the God of love. If God is the God of *everything* then they are the God of hate, as well as love. Peace, as well as war. The god of Evil, as well as Goodness. The God of suffering, as well as repair. They can't be a comprehensive God and creator of *everything* then.

That isn't so much a belief in Islam (although somewhat), so much as my attitude now. It will never click in my brain, though I understand how your perspective gives comfort to many.

You know...I gave you a benefit of doubt. People have very nicely and calmly summarized knowledge of the Bible in two threads for you. You are not reading their posts or caring to understand. You also do not discuss "deficiencies" of other religions (all religions have common themes). This leads me to believe that you intent isn't to understand Christianity, it is to discredit and ridicule Christianity (and Judaism at certain Hebrew Bible/Old Testament topics).

I have repeatedly stated that all religions have commonalities. They all have people who will distort tenets for their personal gain. They all claim truth. They all have heavenly incentives (the ones that believe in an afterlife, anyway). They all have a plan that I ultimately cannot believe in.

But I will never understand Christianity - it's not a matter of trying. I will never understand Hinduism - it's not a matter of trying. I will never even understand Islam - it's not a matter of trying (I grew up in it!). Religion does not click for me, period. It doesn't work with my brain. But OP started this thread specifically to ask about Christianity. I'm not OP, I just responded with my perspective. I'd respond similarly if OP asked about any other religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this applies to a former boss of mine, 20+ years ago. She considered herself a good Christian. Attended church every Sunday.

However, she was suspicious of other cultures. If a person wasn't white she had an issue. Helping anyone less fortunate was beneath her. She would put a can of soup in the Food Bank collection box at Christmas because people were watching. She asked their Minister not to marry her daughter and fiance because he wasn't raised with Christianity.

Overall, I didn't consider her a good person. But she went to church every Sunday and was sure she was going to Heaven.

Last minute redemption?

Why don't you take that up with her? Why demonize Christianity and Christinas because you had a bad personal experience that clearly traumatized you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this applies to a former boss of mine, 20+ years ago. She considered herself a good Christian. Attended church every Sunday.

However, she was suspicious of other cultures. If a person wasn't white she had an issue. Helping anyone less fortunate was beneath her. She would put a can of soup in the Food Bank collection box at Christmas because people were watching. She asked their Minister not to marry her daughter and fiance because he wasn't raised with Christianity.

Overall, I didn't consider her a good person. But she went to church every Sunday and was sure she was going to Heaven.

Last minute redemption?

The Bible talks a lot about hypocrites, especially Jesus in the new testament.

But really, only God knows.