Target lower tier schools for merit aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even some lower tier schools will try to "game" you, insist you visit for a chance at decent scholarships

And this is “gaming” applicants...how?

Do you think it is unfair for a college to want to vet a candidate in person before handing over another $50,000?

Maybe s/he means showing demonstrated interest. SLACSs really want to know you would attend there.

Nothing wrong with that, particularly if they are awarding a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

There are lots of small engineering schools that have lots more men than women.

Some of them use merit aid to close the gap. Most of them have reasonable chemistry and/or biochemistry departments.

Think RPI, WPI, Lehigh, Case Western, Stevens Insti of Tech and so on. The question there is will she get enough to be less than in state?

The next level down places like Rowan, Clarkson, Michigan Tech are likely to be less than in state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even some lower tier schools will try to "game" you, insist you visit for a chance at decent scholarships

And this is “gaming” applicants...how?

Do you think it is unfair for a college to want to vet a candidate in person before handing over another $50,000?

Universities keep track of who visits because they don’t want students to apply widely just to receive scholarships miscellaneous schools just to use as bargaining leverage to get more aid from the school the student really wants to attend. They want to give scholarships to students who actually want to attend.
Of course if your family is legitimately poor you get a pass, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is interested in sciences (biochem/engineering/pre-med?) and currently making a list with the usual suspects. She has good stats (35 ACT, 800 Math2, 800 BioM, high GPA). Curious if there are those who have targeted "lower-tier" schools to try to lots of merit aid? According to Naviance, she has a great shot at some great schools, but we have younger children to plan for as well. What schools would you add to your list with this in mind? TIA!

1. yes, target lower tier school for merit
2. a 35 is very good score but, particularly in this area, there are tons of kids with 35s. National %-tile doesn't matter.
3. lower tier schools don't care about SAT II scores. Most don't require it, they won't look at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: We live in VA. We’re lucky to have great in-state schools. We estimate (if accepted): ~$30+ UVA, ~$28 W&M, and $20 something VT. We just don’t know what other options there are if she looked at another tier? She’s our oldest. We don’t qualify for need based aid. We’ve saved money for her (and siblings)- but just want to explore options.

If you don’t qualify for aid and you have saved some for her and she has worked this hard shouldn’t you support her in her goals? Are the other kids even good students? Maybe you should scrimp on the other kids and not the one who has worked her rear off?

Translation: "Shouldn't you go into debt for your child as you approach retirement, and short your other kids who may have learning or other issues which impede their ability to perform at the same level as their older sister, thereby creating potential lifelong implications for sibling relationships?"

Yeah, or maybe the other siblings are boys, right? Why waste all the family money on the girl, right?

[Anonymous]

Minnesota gives some sizeable grants. OOS tuition is increasing, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is interested in sciences (biochem/engineering/pre-med?) and currently making a list with the usual suspects. She has good stats (35 ACT, 800 Math2, 800 BioM, high GPA). Curious if there are those who have targeted "lower-tier" schools to try to lots of merit aid? According to Naviance, she has a great shot at some great schools, but we have younger children to plan for as well. What schools would you add to your list with this in mind? TIA!

1. yes, target lower tier school for merit
2. a 35 is very good score but, particularly in this area, there are tons of kids with 35s. National %-tile doesn't matter.
3. lower tier schools don't care about SAT II scores. Most don't require it, they won't look at it.

If you get a 35 you have scored higher than everyone but approximately 15,000 students or so, out of 2,000,000+ students.

That’s a very good score and I’m pretty sure that all of those 15k students don’t live in the DC area.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-many-people-get-a-34-35-36-on-the-act-score-breakdown


On the ACT, 34 and up is the 99th percentile. So if you score 34 or higher, you’re in the top 1% of test takers!

But exactly how many students earned a 33, 34, 35, or 36 in 2017? Which score is the rarest? Let's take a look:

Score # of Students Percentage of All Test Takers
36 2,760 0.136%
35 12,386 0.610%
34 20,499 1.010%
33 26,920 1.326%
Source: ACT.org

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is interested in sciences (biochem/engineering/pre-med?) and currently making a list with the usual suspects. She has good stats (35 ACT, 800 Math2, 800 BioM, high GPA). Curious if there are those who have targeted "lower-tier" schools to try to lots of merit aid? According to Naviance, she has a great shot at some great schools, but we have younger children to plan for as well. What schools would you add to your list with this in mind? TIA!

1. yes, target lower tier school for merit
2. a 35 is very good score but, particularly in this area, there are tons of kids with 35s. National %-tile doesn't matter.
3. lower tier schools don't care about SAT II scores. Most don't require it, they won't look at it.

If you get a 35 you have scored higher than everyone but approximately 15,000 students or so, out of 2,000,000+ students.

That’s a very good score and I’m pretty sure that all of those 15k students don’t live in the DC area.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-many-people-get-a-34-35-36-on-the-act-score-breakdown


On the ACT, 34 and up is the 99th percentile. So if you score 34 or higher, you’re in the top 1% of test takers!

But exactly how many students earned a 33, 34, 35, or 36 in 2017? Which score is the rarest? Let's take a look:

Score # of Students Percentage of All Test Takers
36 2,760 0.136%
35 12,386 0.610%
34 20,499 1.010%
33 26,920 1.326%
Source: ACT.org

Many in this area. DC1 got a 36, DC2 got a 35; and DC3 got a 36. It’s even easier nowadays with superscoring allowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We, too, have a STEM-focused girl with good stats, and we also live in Virginia, with an HHI <$130K. Thing is, she wants a small school (<2500 students) and the options in Virginia are not plentiful. She went to Juniata’s Open house last month and really liked it, sat in on a Chemistry class and got to talk to the professor (a lady). That made a big impression on her. We’ll be looking at a number of schools on the CTCL list.

Ah, thanks. what other schools are you looking at from that list? I see these schools pop up in discussions. I'd love for someone to chime in who has direct experience?

We haven’t visited yet, but the other top candidates are Allegheny, College of Wooster and Wheaton or Hope College (if she wants to go to a Christian school, which would align with our faith).

Notre Dame, Catholic U, Georgetown, Villanova, Boston, Holy Cross???
https://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/top-catholic-colleges-and-universities/

Also, any large state university and many private schools too will have a Catholic student center. You should not fear sending your children to college - they aren’t just filled with amoral lunatics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DD has similar stats. Applied ED to a top school and Tulane. We were hoping she’d get offered merit aid from Tulane and then we’d decide based on how much was offered. Tulane deferred her which was a bummer. She got into the top school which was frankly shocking (& her first choice) and she went with that (with some aid).
Try Tulane and Boston U, but maybe apply either ED to the school with aid if she really wants to go there or just apply regular for all. Our friends kid did that and he is going free at Boston U.

Can I ask what Byour DD was offered in merit? Based on CC, it looks like some top private offer merit aid, but it would only cut down cost to about $40+K, which is still more expensive than in-state options.

It’s financial aid, not merit. The very top schools save secret merit aid for the next Einstein only and that’s a rare thing. Yes, it will be about 40k for us with her contributing some from work study and a small loan. We’ll be eating boxed Mac and cheese for 4 years but she has worked hard so off she goes.

OP here: my DH and I don't want to crush her dreams and have not eliminated schools in this price range and higher. But we do know that she will likely go to graduate school (more $$$) and that she can thrive in most places. So, the search is on!

A serious and frank conversation about your means and the need for merit aid is not crushing her dreams. Very few kids get to go through this process without cari g about the money,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even some lower tier schools will try to "game" you, insist you visit for a chance at decent scholarships

And this is “gaming” applicants...how?

Do you think it is unfair for a college to want to vet a candidate in person before handing over another $50,000?

Universities keep track of who visits because they don’t want students to apply widely just to receive scholarships miscellaneous schools just to use as bargaining leverage to get more aid from the school the student really wants to attend. They want to give scholarships to students who actually want to attend.
Of course if your family is legitimately poor you get a pass, I think.

Gee, that is a relief. When we have narrowed our list, I will come back to ask for your authorization before having DC compete for additional merit scholarship money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We, too, have a STEM-focused girl with good stats, and we also live in Virginia, with an HHI <$130K. Thing is, she wants a small school (<2500 students) and the options in Virginia are not plentiful. She went to Juniata’s Open house last month and really liked it, sat in on a Chemistry class and got to talk to the professor (a lady). That made a big impression on her. We’ll be looking at a number of schools on the CTCL list.

Ah, thanks. what other schools are you looking at from that list? I see these schools pop up in discussions. I'd love for someone to chime in who has direct experience?

We haven’t visited yet, but the other top candidates are Allegheny, College of Wooster and Wheaton or Hope College (if she wants to go to a Christian school, which would align with our faith).

Notre Dame, Catholic U, Georgetown, Villanova, Boston, Holy Cross???
https://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/top-catholic-colleges-and-universities/

Also, any large state university and many private schools too will have a Catholic student center. You should not fear sending your children to college - they aren’t just filled with amoral lunatics.

PP is looking for merit aid. Georgetown, ND, Villanova do not award merit scholarships and the others give a pittance to a handful of students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: We live in VA. We’re lucky to have great in-state schools. We estimate (if accepted): ~$30+ UVA, ~$28 W&M, and $20 something VT. We just don’t know what other options there are if she looked at another tier? She’s our oldest. We don’t qualify for need based aid. We’ve saved money for her (and siblings)- but just want to explore options.

If you don’t qualify for aid and you have saved some for her and she has worked this hard shouldn’t you support her in her goals? Are the other kids even good students? Maybe you should scrimp on the other kids and not the one who has worked her rear off?

Translation: "Shouldn't you go into debt for your child as you approach retirement, and short your other kids who may have learning or other issues which impede their ability to perform at the same level as their older sister, thereby creating potential lifelong implications for sibling relationships?"

Yeah, or maybe the other siblings are boys, right? Why waste all the family money on the girl, right?

Why give more to one sibling than another?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even some lower tier schools will try to "game" you, insist you visit for a chance at decent scholarships

And this is “gaming” applicants...how?

Do you think it is unfair for a college to want to vet a candidate in person before handing over another $50,000?

It's gaming when the school gives under 2 weeks notice for the scholarship visit, and it's across the country. How many people can swing airfare for a kid and accompanying adult, plus lodging, plus get time off work to travel, with 12 days notice? All with the hoe that you'll get one of 8 big scholarships? I priced it out at close to 1800 in costs...And there was no offer of airfare or lodging for the student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even some lower tier schools will try to "game" you, insist you visit for a chance at decent scholarships

And this is “gaming” applicants...how?

Do you think it is unfair for a college to want to vet a candidate in person before handing over another $50,000?

It's gaming when the school gives under 2 weeks notice for the scholarship visit, and it's across the country. How many people can swing airfare for a kid and accompanying adult, plus lodging, plus get time off work to travel, with 12 days notice? All with the hoe that you'll get one of 8 big scholarships? I priced it out at close to 1800 in costs...And there was no offer of airfare or lodging for the student

When my DC was invited to compete for additional merit money, the school provided plenty of advance notice, and paid travel and lodging expenses.