Schools splitting from large ineffective school systems - could the 4 Ws split from MCPS?

[Anonymous]

MCPS is admitting nearly no kids from W type schools because they have a “peer cohort” and therefore don’t need a magnet to find a peer group. The County is suggesting that local schools can meet those kids’ needs, but didn’t think about this ahead of time. Initially they put it on the parents to figure it out and lobby their principal, then they said they’re working on something, though it’s not clear what. The lack of clarity and the unexpected shutout from the magnet programs has W type parents reeling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain in a nutshell how access to magnet programs is being curtailed in MCPS?

The selection process for MS magnets changed this year. It's now unlikely that more than twenty students could be selected from a single home MS.

[Anonymous]

Many cities originally incorporated so they could have better school systems that the surrounding counties. They people who lived in these areas were willing and eager to pay for better schools/streets/parks/police/sidewalks/trash pickup. I see no reason not to continue the trend. I live in the county, outside city limits, and would gladly volunteer to pay city taxes for all these things and much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is admitting nearly no kids from W type schools because they have a “peer cohort” and therefore don’t need a magnet to find a peer group. The County is suggesting that local schools can meet those kids’ needs, but didn’t think about this ahead of time. Initially they put it on the parents to figure it out and lobby their principal, then they said they’re working on something, though it’s not clear what. The lack of clarity and the unexpected shutout from the magnet programs has W type parents reeling.

So was there specific communication/letter from MCPS that a lot of kids from the W schools are not going to be accepted because of the presence of a peer group in the local schools? But also- with regards to the peer group, I thought that the presence of a peer group (or not) has always been a factor when evaluating a child who has applied to a magnet program. Didn't think this was anything new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is admitting nearly no kids from W type schools because they have a “peer cohort” and therefore don’t need a magnet to find a peer group. The County is suggesting that local schools can meet those kids’ needs, but didn’t think about this ahead of time. Initially they put it on the parents to figure it out and lobby their principal, then they said they’re working on something, though it’s not clear what. The lack of clarity and the unexpected shutout from the magnet programs has W type parents reeling.

So was there specific communication/letter from MCPS that a lot of kids from the W schools are not going to be accepted because of the presence of a peer group in the local schools? But also- with regards to the peer group, I thought that the presence of a peer group (or not) has always been a factor when evaluating a child who has applied to a magnet program. Didn't think this was anything new.

Please not another thread about the middle-school magnet admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't the one who floated the idea, but since I am a product of private schools and send my kids to public school in Bethesda... I wouldn't be against it.

Please realize that the wall you speak of is already there, in real estate value. Creating a different public school system in Bethesda won't change anything.

Right, but changing zoning and housing laws would.

There wouldn't be a need to change anything. School boundaries would be kept intact. The same school buildings would be used, bought or leased. A few students, however, would be affected, because they are currently bused across clusters to special programs, so an agreement would have to be made concerning them. My child among them.

Changing zoning and housing laws would get rid of the socioeconomic wall that (as you say) currently exists.

What would you change them to? I would require a certain percentage of low-income rent-controlled units to recent and future apartments/townhomes in the new public schools's catchment area. But I would keep the cluster boundaries, otherwise it gets too complicated and people would be upset that the price they paid for their houses ended up not benefiting them as they planned, and therefore would not be in favor of a Bethesda school system.

The main reason I would be for a new school system in my area is that I don't think much of MCPS. It's not a great school system at all. The numbers look good because concerned parents all over the County are supplementing and working with their children. A smaller school system in a wealthy and educated area would hopefully get their priorities straight and use a better curriculum and better teachers, and take better care of gifted, ESOL and special needs children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people at the top of the MCPS system want to close the achievement gap, and they think it's totally fair for the richer taxpayers to pay for the poorer areas' schools. They also will move programs around as needed to achieve equity. Same with admissions criteria for magnets, or extra resources for individual schools, or policies regarding PTA fundraising efforts etc. I know this from talking to several people in the system who are decision-makers. This is the MCPS mandate and the philosophy and you should plan accordingly. I'm not commenting on that one way or the other, I'm just stating the facts. If what you want is inconsistent with those goals, you can try to lobby for a town-like school system or go to private and live somewhere where your taxes won't be used like this.

Yes, that's because taxes are taxes, not user fees.

Exactly. The entitlement of people is so strong. You pay taxes because you are required to and it is part of the social contract we have for the greater good.

If we did not subsidize the lives of the poorer people that still get paid slave wages, you would be far poorer because you would still pay a ton in taxes AND pay far more for goods and services. And the fact that the poor would literally revolt and we would have a Purge movie type situation on our hands if we actually screwed them as badly as many of you would like to.

I'm surprised that that people here can't comprehend that we live in a society where the more money you make, the more you pay taxes.. And yes, a portion of taxes are used to help people less fortunate than you. This is not unique to Montgomery County, people. This is the NORM in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't the one who floated the idea, but since I am a product of private schools and send my kids to public school in Bethesda... I wouldn't be against it.

Please realize that the wall you speak of is already there, in real estate value. Creating a different public school system in Bethesda won't change anything.

Right, but changing zoning and housing laws would.

There wouldn't be a need to change anything. School boundaries would be kept intact. The same school buildings would be used, bought or leased. A few students, however, would be affected, because they are currently bused across clusters to special programs, so an agreement would have to be made concerning them. My child among them.

Changing zoning and housing laws would get rid of the socioeconomic wall that (as you say) currently exists.

What would you change them to? I would require a certain percentage of low-income rent-controlled units to recent and future apartments/townhomes in the new public schools's catchment area. But I would keep the cluster boundaries, otherwise it gets too complicated and people would be upset that the price they paid for their houses ended up not benefiting them as they planned, and therefore would not be in favor of a Bethesda school system.

The main reason I would be for a new school system in my area is that I don't think much of MCPS. It's not a great school system at all. The numbers look good because concerned parents all over the County are supplementing and working with their children. A smaller school system in a wealthy and educated area would hopefully get their priorities straight and use a better curriculum and better teachers, and take better care of gifted, ESOL and special needs children.

And could we fix the problem of snow days when there is no snow for 89% of the schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wasn't the one who floated the idea, but since I am a product of private schools and send my kids to public school in Bethesda... I wouldn't be against it.

Please realize that the wall you speak of is already there, in real estate value. Creating a different public school system in Bethesda won't change anything.

Right, but changing zoning and housing laws would.

There wouldn't be a need to change anything. School boundaries would be kept intact. The same school buildings would be used, bought or leased. A few students, however, would be affected, because they are currently bused across clusters to special programs, so an agreement would have to be made concerning them. My child among them.

Changing zoning and housing laws would get rid of the socioeconomic wall that (as you say) currently exists.

What would you change them to? I would require a certain percentage of low-income rent-controlled units to recent and future apartments/townhomes in the new public schools's catchment area. But I would keep the cluster boundaries, otherwise it gets too complicated and people would be upset that the price they paid for their houses ended up not benefiting them as they planned, and therefore would not be in favor of a Bethesda school system.

The main reason I would be for a new school system in my area is that I don't think much of MCPS. It's not a great school system at all. The numbers look good because concerned parents all over the County are supplementing and working with their children. A smaller school system in a wealthy and educated area would hopefully get their priorities straight and use a better curriculum and better teachers, and take better care of gifted, ESOL and special needs children.

And could we fix the problem of snow days when there is no snow for 89% of the schools?

That would be a nice perk, wouldn't it? No more last-minute scramble for no valid reason

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Changing zoning and housing laws would get rid of the socioeconomic wall that (as you say) currently exists.

What would you change them to? I would require a certain percentage of low-income rent-controlled units to recent and future apartments/townhomes in the new public schools's catchment area. But I would keep the cluster boundaries, otherwise it gets too complicated and people would be upset that the price they paid for their houses ended up not benefiting them as they planned, and therefore would not be in favor of a Bethesda school system.

The main reason I would be for a new school system in my area is that I don't think much of MCPS. It's not a great school system at all. The numbers look good because concerned parents all over the County are supplementing and working with their children. A smaller school system in a wealthy and educated area would hopefully get their priorities straight and use a better curriculum and better teachers, and take better care of gifted, ESOL and special needs children.





We could start by allowing accessory dwelling units/apartments and duplexes/triplexes by right and reducing minimum lot sizes.

[Anonymous]

Yes, but we have reached the breaking point. So many resources are going to those less fortunate, that even those W schools are suffering. Class sizes are way too big, schools are overcrowded, and mcps isn't supporting the kids as far as mental health, and many other ways as well. And I'm not even talking about the recent magnet changes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is going on now in Malibu and Salt Lake City. Areas with higher performing students are working to split off from large ineffective, bureaucratic systems. The Malibu - Santa Monica split is being complicated by the amount of money Santa Monica wants from Malibu but it looks like this will eventually happen. CA actually makes it harder for systems to do this so it might be easier here in MD.

There is a tipping point in frustration when a school system only takes from one area to benefit another even if the need in the other area is greater. If students in the W clusters are no eligible for county-wide magnet programs, building renovations are constantly delayed, parents can't fund raise for things like teacher aides or facility improvements then perhaps its time to split.

I wish. but Bethesda and potomac property taxes subsidize so much of the rest of the district's school budget they'd be losing their golden goose of fun money and their high test scores.

Philosophically I agree, and it IS RARE to see U.S. school districts by mega-huge county and not by town or city. There can be such differences and need for customization, that attempting to serve 200 totally different schools from 20+ totally different towns and lengthy commutes (for teachers too), large square mileage, and general unique issues in demographics in MoCo it is a terrible proposition. Furthermore, such large, large school districts attract some real ego-boosting administrators bent on crazy personal initiatives and never go from community to community, just from fire to fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is going on now in Malibu and Salt Lake City. Areas with higher performing students are working to split off from large ineffective, bureaucratic systems. The Malibu - Santa Monica split is being complicated by the amount of money Santa Monica wants from Malibu but it looks like this will eventually happen. CA actually makes it harder for systems to do this so it might be easier here in MD.

There is a tipping point in frustration when a school system only takes from one area to benefit another even if the need in the other area is greater. If students in the W clusters are no eligible for county-wide magnet programs, building renovations are constantly delayed, parents can't fund raise for things like teacher aides or facility improvements then perhaps its time to split.

I used to read that W students dont bother with magnets since their own schools are so good..

No, they'd love to keep going beyond ES gifted centers, but the logistics of the commute are pure hell (wake up at 5:30am, sit on a bus for 90+ minutes, get home after 7pm), twice a day!

[Anonymous]

This trend is happening in progressive and conservative states. The reality is that mega school systems don't work and are directly against the ideals of local education. Many areas have done this from LA to Chicago to NC. The Bay Area did it 40 years ago. Cupertino, CA is one of the top schools in the country with one of the most rigorous curriculums in the state and only has two high schools.

The latest magnet issue (agree that you should go to the other threads for more on that one) just gives another compelling point to do it. The students and residents of the W schools - and you can throw in CC are not integrated into the system already. They have no magnet schools drawing in other county students and as of MCPS latest move determining that these students aren't eligible for the county magnets because they already have a cohort - well there went the last small bit of integration.

MCPS couldn't argue that the presence of the W + schools helps other MCPS students in any way because there is no interaction per their own decisions. In fact the inclusion of the W schools gives MCPS a false inflation of performance. If you pull out the high performing schools, perhaps more attention would be paid to how badly MCPS is failing the failing students.

Taxpayers have a right to pursue improving their community and schools. Separating from MCPS would provide local representation and allow citizens to engage to keep improving their community. It would solve the bell time issues as there wouldn't be the massive bus fleet issue. It would enable the W schools to select an appropriate curriculum. It would allow the W schools to choose a normal school calendar and be free of the union choke hold that MCPS falls under today.

The parties that would lose would be the MCPS central office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But look at Rockville and Takoma Park, incorporated cities in a sea of un-incorporated suburbia.

There is nothing to stop a school system from developing independently of a County.

There is not a single town based school system in the state. Are you sure it's possible to crest one under state law?

Sorry, I expressed myself badly. I meant, if some areas can incorporate and have their own systems to deal with public services, why can't an area request to create its own public school system?

If there is a Bethesda public school system, I wonder what effect it would have on college admissions. I assume a student would have to have slightly better grades in such a system than in the surrounding public schools, since universities will assume that families have the means to educated their children well. Of course, perhaps they do so now! If that's already the case, perhaps it would be best for residents of Bethesda to have their own schools where the curriculum can be more in-depth and teachers better paid and more intelligent.

I dream of textbooks with full color on every page and quality paper, just like I had as a child. One problem with that: backpacks get REALLY heavy

textbooks? MCPS? sorry, only chrome books and posted handouts -- hope your kid can follow! Even ES is phasing out physical reading books for the online download. Enjoy your nearsighted screen kid.