Everyone on DCUM should read Frank Bruni's recent book on colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may be hard to believe, but it's actually quite possible for people with nice diplomas to be successful human beings too.

+1

I went to an elite uni in my home country. Most of my "professional" friends in the US have HYPS degrees. Lovely people, and just brilliant. Articulate, polished, well-networked. Most of my local "mom" friends went to JMU, VCU, GMU, etc. Also lovely people, but nowhere near as bright or successful. Obviously, just my personal experience, but the difference really is glaring. Are they both happy? Sure, probably in their own way. But they are not equivalent.

Funny. I went to Oxford and a lot of the people i knew there were utter wankers.

Best post to this thread.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the book but read Bruni's columns on the same topic. I think he makes a lot of great points that hopefully I'll remember when my kids reach high school. I went to an Ivy and yes if you want to get on certain tracks, it is much easier if you attended an Ivy. But now I work with a lot of very successful people (who make a lot more than me) who either went to random state schools (not big name schools like U Mich or U VA) or small colleges. There are a lot of paths to success!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:("Where You go is Not Who You'll Be.")

It is a really valuable reminder that you don't need to go to "name brand" colleges -- and by extension, high schools -- to grow up to be a fantastically happy, prosperous, creative and successful human being. In fact, Bruni cites compelling evidence that the most "elite" schools do not reliably produce the most successful graduates.

I found reading it a great corrective to the anxiety on this board, and recommend it to all!

Have it on my bookshelf!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:("Where You go is Not Who You'll Be.")

It is a really valuable reminder that you don't need to go to "name brand" colleges -- and by extension, high schools -- to grow up to be a fantastically happy, prosperous, creative and successful human being. In fact, Bruni cites compelling evidence that the most "elite" schools do not reliably produce the most successful graduates.

I found reading it a great corrective to the anxiety on this board, and recommend it to all!

I totally agree. I know several Ivy grads who are unemployed or underemployed. I have found that my State university education has served me well. On these boards everyone seems to think Ivy is THE ONLY path to success. That is absolutely not what I’ve experienced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know that he's a good journalist on education specifically?

Because. I. Read. The. Book.

It is well-researched and well-argued. I'm university professor and part of my job is evaluating research and scholarship by other people, and this struck me as a very solid and persuasive book, overall. FWIW, it also received numerous excellent reviews. Did I agree with every single statement in it? No, of course not. There were a few bits where I thought he needed more, or didn't ask questions he should have asked or discuss issues he should have discussed, etc. But as a product, myself, of several super-duper elite institutions (fancy prep school, fancy college, fancy scholarship to fancy foreign country, fancy professional school, and succession of fancy jobs at elite institutions and universities), and with kids at an expensive elite private school, I found the book thought-provoking and useful. It made me think somewhat differently about how to steer my own children when college frenzy begins.

Read it and judge for yourself. Maybe it will not change your views, but maybe it will.

or they can just stay in academia forever.

Right, because academics are completely unqualified to comment on education. Seriously, PP, you are so resistant to acknowledging even the possibility of new information that I suspect you’d reject new ideas handed down directly from a divine power. In your view, is there anyone in the world qualified to provide you with valid new insights? If you are this hostile to hearing new perspectives at work, maybe you really are Donald Trump. Otherwise, what’s so hard about saying something polite? “Thanks, I haven’t read that book, and I’m not sure I will agree with it, but I’m always happy to get new recommendations.”

Or, better still, if you have nothing helpful to say, you could just refrain from commenting.

This is a troll, or in the sad event that this insecure and arrogant person is actually an academic, please don't think that we are all this way. The book looks promising!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On these boards everyone seems to think Ivy is THE ONLY path to success.

Where? I've been reading DCUM for years and never saw anyone say this.

[Anonymous]

This book should be recommended in the end of every rejection letter.

[Anonymous]

Frank Bruni went to boarding school in Connecticut and Columbia University (one of the world's best schools for journalists). So who would he be if his choices were more low-key?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know several Ivy grads who are unemployed or underemployed.

And I know even more state school grads who are unemployed or underemployed. So what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frank Bruni went to boarding school in Connecticut and Columbia University (one of the world's best schools for journalists). So who would he be if his choices were more low-key?

Actually, he turned down an Ivy to go to UNC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here comes the conspiracy theorist.

Spare us the melodramatic hyperbole.

Most people spend their careers developing expertise in one subject area, be it medicine, law, IT, finance, whatever. I think it's natural to be skeptical if someone were to suddenly shift their work to a completely different topic.

I don't doubt that Mr. Bruni can perform research or cite studies. But given the choice between a book written by a smart guy who has jumped around covering one subject to another (albeit well, judging from his accolades), and someone who has spent their entire career writing about education, you know what? I'm going to choose the latter.

And yet study after study shows that people with multidisciplinary backgrounds are more creative and better at problem-solving and insight. Einstein was a mathematician who made his greatest breakthroughs in physics. By your logic, only a physicist should have been able to excel in physics.

What a totally asinine analysis.

[Anonymous]

Way to miss the point.

Do you want to take a flight to Hawaii operated by a pilot with years of specific training, or a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who has done extensive, peer-reviewed interdisciplinary research on the history of flight, the engineering behind how planes are built, and the economics of air travel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here comes the conspiracy theorist.

Spare us the melodramatic hyperbole.

Most people spend their careers developing expertise in one subject area, be it medicine, law, IT, finance, whatever. I think it's natural to be skeptical if someone were to suddenly shift their work to a completely different topic.

I don't doubt that Mr. Bruni can perform research or cite studies. But given the choice between a book written by a smart guy who has jumped around covering one subject to another (albeit well, judging from his accolades), and someone who has spent their entire career writing about education, you know what? I'm going to choose the latter.

And yet study after study shows that people with multidisciplinary backgrounds are more creative and better at problem-solving and insight. Einstein was a mathematician who made his greatest breakthroughs in physics. By your logic, only a physicist should have been able to excel in physics.

What a totally asinine analysis.

Yes, Pp Have you read Erik Larson books? So many topics, but researched and narrated so well. He is astonishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Way to miss the point.

Do you want to take a flight to Hawaii operated by a pilot with years of specific training, or a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who has done extensive, peer-reviewed interdisciplinary research on the history of flight, the engineering behind how planes are built, and the economics of air travel?

Um, PP, you're just confirming that you are rather thick.

Operating a flight is a physical skill in which, yes, years of experience counts. However, tracking and analyzing the education sector requires the same skills at which many journalists excel -- critical analysis, research, ability to synthesize data, and to write.

Daniel Goleman, who has written extensively on emotional intelligence is --- gasp -- a mere journalist, not a psychologist or psychiatrist. Yet he has synthesized and presented research on emotional intelligence that has revolutionized the way the business and education think about emotional intelligence.

But go ahead. Do stay in your narrow thought lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may be hard to believe, but it's actually quite possible for people with nice diplomas to be successful human beings too.

+1

I went to an elite uni in my home country. Most of my "professional" friends in the US have HYPS degrees. Lovely people, and just brilliant. Articulate, polished, well-networked. Most of my local "mom" friends went to JMU, VCU, GMU, etc. Also lovely people, but nowhere near as bright or successful. Obviously, just my personal experience, but the difference really is glaring. Are they both happy? Sure, probably in their own way. But they are not equivalent.

Funny. I went to Oxford and a lot of the people i knew there were utter wankers.

Yes, well Oxford specializes in Oxford. It comes with the British class system.

I'm a graduate of two Ivies, and I can attest that it's like any population. There are a number of jerks who are not that smart (and you can't help but wonder what special hook got them in), and there are amazing people who humble you and make you wonder how you were admitted in a field that included such extraordinary stars.