Everyone on DCUM should read Frank Bruni's recent book on colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations, you cited a single thread on an anonymous message board where the posters are predominately from the DC area. That hardly refutes my claim that only a small minority of Americans think this way, and I don't know anyone personally who posted in the thread.

https://www.google.com/search?q="yale+or+jail"+dcum+site%3Awww.dcurbanmom.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course, there is this thing called "research." Good journalists tend to be rather good at the whole research thing. Maybe consider reading the book before deciding you couldn't possibly learn anything from it?

No, they want to keep up with the Jones's and only care about names and prestige

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my experience, many education consultants in DC also have the same view as Mr. Bruni. In fact, I've even heard the Director of Admissions at a Big 3 make many of these same points.

Seems ironic, given how hard Big 3-type schools try to outplace so many of their students in HYPS-type schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is going to George Mason ok? Is that what you want for your kids?

Is denigrating other people’s choices and circumstances ok? Is that how you want your children to behave?

Take a Xanax, Tiger Mom.

[Anonymous]

Aw. Some people’s whole sense of self worth is linked to the name on their diploma. Don’t tell them that having a nice diploma isn’t what makes you a successful human being! They will collapse into an angry heap of punctured ego. Be kind. Don’t make them read a book that might shatter their sense of self worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is going to George Mason ok? Is that what you want for your kids?

You're dating yourself. GMU has been no. 1 up and coming university recognized nationally by a number of ranking services. No, it's not a commuter school. All freshman must live in dorms. Yes you can have a full university or college experience there. The campus is lovely. Many of my DD's friends in the past three years applying from NoVA did not get in. The campus is gorgeous. The facilities are first-rate and new. Va's General Assembly is pumping millions of dollars into it building dorms and new facilities. It now also has the huge Mason Korea campus. If you haven't been on campus in the last 20 years (and it sounds like you haven't), please go take a tour and learn what you are missing. Mason can be a great choice for Virginians. And shock! All of the women in my DD's dorms are international or OOS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University

[Anonymous]

This may be hard to believe, but it's actually quite possible for people with nice diplomas to be successful human beings too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, it took less than three minutes for the first sneering response to be posted. Probably not a DCUM record, but most impressive, PP. Please don't keep being you.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may be hard to believe, but it's actually quite possible for people with nice diplomas to be successful human beings too.

+1

I went to an elite uni in my home country. Most of my "professional" friends in the US have HYPS degrees. Lovely people, and just brilliant. Articulate, polished, well-networked. Most of my local "mom" friends went to JMU, VCU, GMU, etc. Also lovely people, but nowhere near as bright or successful. Obviously, just my personal experience, but the difference really is glaring. Are they both happy? Sure, probably in their own way. But they are not equivalent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From my experience, many education consultants in DC also have the same view as Mr. Bruni. In fact, I've even heard the Director of Admissions at a Big 3 make many of these same points.

Seems ironic, given how hard Big 3-type schools try to outplace so many of their students in HYPS-type schools.

I think a lot of the HYPS angling is coming from the students and parents, not the counseling department. That being said, given that consumers judge these schools based on outplacement, it's hard for any school to truly opt out of the rat race in that respect. That said, I know many of the administrators at top schools are trying to fight the attitude that only certain colleges are acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may be hard to believe, but it's actually quite possible for people with nice diplomas to be successful human beings too.

+1

I went to an elite uni in my home country. Most of my "professional" friends in the US have HYPS degrees. Lovely people, and just brilliant. Articulate, polished, well-networked. Most of my local "mom" friends went to JMU, VCU, GMU, etc. Also lovely people, but nowhere near as bright or successful. Obviously, just my personal experience, but the difference really is glaring. Are they both happy? Sure, probably in their own way. But they are not equivalent.

I think you're creating a false dichotomy when you compare HYPS with the other schools you listed (no disrespect intended to them). I think the point people are making on this thread is that you can go to a less intense school like Burke or St. Andrews, followed by a less intense school (e.g., a top 25 SLAC or public university) and still be successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may be hard to believe, but it's actually quite possible for people with nice diplomas to be successful human beings too.

+1

I went to an elite uni in my home country. Most of my "professional" friends in the US have HYPS degrees. Lovely people, and just brilliant. Articulate, polished, well-networked. Most of my local "mom" friends went to JMU, VCU, GMU, etc. Also lovely people, but nowhere near as bright or successful. Obviously, just my personal experience, but the difference really is glaring. Are they both happy? Sure, probably in their own way. But they are not equivalent.

Funny. I went to Oxford and a lot of the people i knew there were utter wankers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He used to be the New York Times food critic, and had also covered the White House and been a movie critic, before moving to the op-ed side. In other words, hard to say that education is his specialty so I take his views with no greater credibility than any other journalist writing on the subject.

That Bruni? Oh for heaven's sake, why would I spent time reading his opinion on colleges in America. Thanks for letting me know. I had heard of the book. What a waste of time that would have been. He probably had it ghosted.

Where is Tom Sietsema again? He would knock this outta the park!

[Anonymous]

For goodness sake, the OP was not saying that no successful or nice people go to elite schools. OP merely made what one would think would be an uncontroversial comment: parents stressing about schools might find it useful to read book that reminds us that attendance at elite schools is not the only route to happiness and success.

Is that really such a controversial thing to suggest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know that he's a good journalist on education specifically?

Because. I. Read. The. Book.

It is well-researched and well-argued. I'm university professor and part of my job is evaluating research and scholarship by other people, and this struck me as a very solid and persuasive book, overall. FWIW, it also received numerous excellent reviews. Did I agree with every single statement in it? No, of course not. There were a few bits where I thought he needed more, or didn't ask questions he should have asked or discuss issues he should have discussed, etc. But as a product, myself, of several super-duper elite institutions (fancy prep school, fancy college, fancy scholarship to fancy foreign country, fancy professional school, and succession of fancy jobs at elite institutions and universities), and with kids at an expensive elite private school, I found the book thought-provoking and useful. It made me think somewhat differently about how to steer my own children when college frenzy begins.

Read it and judge for yourself. Maybe it will not change your views, but maybe it will.

Thank you!