William & Mary - how competitive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we dropped our kid off at W&M a couple of years back, in his welcome talk the college president noted how few of the incoming freshman had perfect GPAs -it was a very very small number. So the class was not made up only of straight A students.

Very encouraging - thank you for posting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does your son do besides study?

volunteer (average about an hour a week) with disabled kids
marching band (and drum line in spring)
community theatre (summer)
honor society

Anything else?

OP here. That's it. Marching band starts in August and goes through November. Drum Line goes from December through April - so just those two things take up a good deal of after school and on weekend. There are hobbies (drawing/art) and some scattered things here and there (like awards and such), but no other activities on a regular basis. Is that insufficient? How many activities should one have?

What the admin offices are searching for is an example of unique leadership skills and grit. They see far too many students who have high grades and scores but upon reaching college don't know what to do with themselves. They are looking for the leaders of tomorrow. So they want to see a national award, national merit, Seimans, national science awards, eagle scouts, American Legion School Award, prestigious or unique summer activities and mastery of foreign languages and skills. The drum skills might get you a good shot at schools with big emphasis on football and band, but that's not W&M. It's worth a shot to try for drum line at UVA, although the GPA scores (weighted ) for even lowest 25% of the class is still over 4.0. You do know you can send in a link to a youtube showing your child's drumming skills, right?

OP again. Ugh! Well, my son is not a national award winner at anything. I appreciate your advice though. But the thing I really wanted to respond to was -- you can send a youtube link on your application?! I had no idea! I'm not sure it's something we'd want to do here because he's not a stand out. But this is fascinating! What sorts of things to people use video submissions for? Are they common?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does your son do besides study?

volunteer (average about an hour a week) with disabled kids
marching band (and drum line in spring)
community theatre (summer)
honor society

Anything else?

OP here. That's it. Marching band starts in August and goes through November. Drum Line goes from December through April - so just those two things take up a good deal of after school and on weekend. There are hobbies (drawing/art) and some scattered things here and there (like awards and such), but no other activities on a regular basis. Is that insufficient? How many activities should one have?

The "Änything else?"question makes me laugh. As if he isn't doing enough. What have we come to with this college nonesense? How I long for the 80's when applying to schools was so much simpler!

+100
PPP, please ignore the "anything else" poster. S/he was simply trying to intimidate you into thinking your son needs more activities. He doesn't. He's just fine.

OP again. I appreciate a few of you weighing in with this perspective. It's hard to know where the truth lies in all of this. Do they need to be national award winners with 4.5 GPAs and 1500 on SATs in order to get into a good state school like W&M? I like hearing that some "normal" kids with good grades/activities have a shot too. So easy to get caught up in all the hype! Truth be told, my son will be lucky to get 1200 on SATs (based on PSATs), which will probably knock him out of the range for this school anyhow

[Anonymous]

So every student who is accepted to W&M is going to be "a leader of tomorrow" ok got it

[Anonymous]

Well, I'll try and remember to post back once DD hears from them. She is below average in both her GPA and her test score so if she gets in, it will provide hope for everyone else out there with kids w/no national award(s), no perfect test score and all A+ on their report cards. It truly is a Race to Nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does your son do besides study?

volunteer (average about an hour a week) with disabled kids
marching band (and drum line in spring)
community theatre (summer)
honor society

Anything else?

OP here. That's it. Marching band starts in August and goes through November. Drum Line goes from December through April - so just those two things take up a good deal of after school and on weekend. There are hobbies (drawing/art) and some scattered things here and there (like awards and such), but no other activities on a regular basis. Is that insufficient? How many activities should one have?

The "Änything else?"question makes me laugh. As if he isn't doing enough. What have we come to with this college nonesense? How I long for the 80's when applying to schools was so much simpler!

+100
PPP, please ignore the "anything else" poster. S/he was simply trying to intimidate you into thinking your son needs more activities. He doesn't. He's just fine.

OP again. I appreciate a few of you weighing in with this perspective. It's hard to know where the truth lies in all of this. Do they need to be national award winners with 4.5 GPAs and 1500 on SATs in order to get into a good state school like W&M? I like hearing that some "normal" kids with good grades/activities have a shot too. So easy to get caught up in all the hype! Truth be told, my son will be lucky to get 1200 on SATs (based on PSATs), which will probably knock him out of the range for this school anyhow

Hi OP. I'm a dad who went through this Virginia in-state mess with two very different children at Langley. Yes, it is near impossible, especially if you live in Fairfax County to get into UVA and W&M because everyone else is trying for it. However, if you live in one of the counties to the far west or south of the state you have a very good chance. Some of those counties send no one (because no one of caliber applied) or one student. You can look this up easily (results by county) on the UVA admissions website - this is why you should ignore anyone who goes on about rednecks or race issues at any of the UVA schools. I've been on almost all of the VA campuses and that simply doesn't happen, especially at UVA and W&M where the emphasis now is bringing in international, URM, superb OOS students and Questbridge (poor) students. Your best tool is the SHEVE report which will give you the incoming GPA of the top 25%, median and bottom 25% of the incoming class of 2017 (W&M, too - all VA colleges). The reports for the class of 2017 show the 25 percentile being at about a 4.5, median about 4.23 and bottom 25th at 4.10. (that's for UVA, W&M is slightly lower) The bottom includes many of the desired URM, international, poor, athletes, legacies and other desired students (DRUMMERS! BAGPIPES!) and all those TJ students who are not in the top 10% of their class (a lot). UVA consistently reports that their accepted student-class is the top 10% of their class but have deleted those reports on the internet because UVA wants to increase the number of applicants. If every student in Fairfax County (one of my children in particular) decides not apply because of such reports then the school's selectivity doesn't rise on the USN&WR. I was present when President Teresa Sullivan said my DD's class (2020) had 93% top ten percent of the class. That fact, which was available in printed form, has disappeared from the internet because it is to the university's advantage to have MORE students apply so they can turn them down. That ups the school's selectivity on the USN&WR ranking, Princeton review, etc. So, go look at the Schev report for W&M and UVA. That will tell you the exact weighted GPA of the students who are on campus in the fall of 2017. I think that is your best guide because it provides straight facts and test scores. I doubt my DD who got in two years ago (4.6, 34 ACT, 36 on retake) would get in today because the competition is so fierce. Her friends came in with 6.0++ GPAs and 54 college credits under their belt. Our DD had only two college courses under her belt and just a 4.6. You need to demonstrate also some unique quality that will benefit the school, whether that be drumming, bagpipes, debate, national science awards, eagle scout or the equivalent. Others on this website will decry what I've posted but it is the truth. http://www.schev.edu/. And that is why NOVA legislators keep introducing bills to expand the no. of seats at UVA for Nova students. I hope this was helpful.

[Anonymous]

^^ agree. Google "North Virginia problem".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So every student who is accepted to W&M is going to be "a leader of tomorrow" ok got it

The standard are high with Thomas Jefferson, Jon Stewart, James Comey, Mike Tomlin, Robert Gates, etc., as graduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does your son do besides study?

volunteer (average about an hour a week) with disabled kids
marching band (and drum line in spring)
community theatre (summer)
honor society

Anything else?

OP here. That's it. Marching band starts in August and goes through November. Drum Line goes from December through April - so just those two things take up a good deal of after school and on weekend. There are hobbies (drawing/art) and some scattered things here and there (like awards and such), but no other activities on a regular basis. Is that insufficient? How many activities should one have?

The "Änything else?"question makes me laugh. As if he isn't doing enough. What have we come to with this college nonesense? How I long for the 80's when applying to schools was so much simpler!

+100
PPP, please ignore the "anything else" poster. S/he was simply trying to intimidate you into thinking your son needs more activities. He doesn't. He's just fine.

OP again. I appreciate a few of you weighing in with this perspective. It's hard to know where the truth lies in all of this. Do they need to be national award winners with 4.5 GPAs and 1500 on SATs in order to get into a good state school like W&M? I like hearing that some "normal" kids with good grades/activities have a shot too. So easy to get caught up in all the hype! Truth be told, my son will be lucky to get 1200 on SATs (based on PSATs), which will probably knock him out of the range for this school anyhow

Hi OP. I'm a dad who went through this Virginia in-state mess with two very different children at Langley. Yes, it is near impossible, especially if you live in Fairfax County to get into UVA and W&M because everyone else is trying for it. However, if you live in one of the counties to the far west or south of the state you have a very good chance. Some of those counties send no one (because no one of caliber applied) or one student. You can look this up easily (results by county) on the UVA admissions website - this is why you should ignore anyone who goes on about rednecks or race issues at any of the UVA schools. I've been on almost all of the VA campuses and that simply doesn't happen, especially at UVA and W&M where the emphasis now is bringing in international, URM, superb OOS students and Questbridge (poor) students. Your best tool is the SHEVE report which will give you the incoming GPA of the top 25%, median and bottom 25% of the incoming class of 2017 (W&M, too - all VA colleges). The reports for the class of 2017 show the 25 percentile being at about a 4.5, median about 4.23 and bottom 25th at 4.10. (that's for UVA, W&M is slightly lower) The bottom includes many of the desired URM, international, poor, athletes, legacies and other desired students (DRUMMERS! BAGPIPES!) and all those TJ students who are not in the top 10% of their class (a lot). UVA consistently reports that their accepted student-class is the top 10% of their class but have deleted those reports on the internet because UVA wants to increase the number of applicants. If every student in Fairfax County (one of my children in particular) decides not apply because of such reports then the school's selectivity doesn't rise on the USN&WR. I was present when President Teresa Sullivan said my DD's class (2020) had 93% top ten percent of the class. That fact, which was available in printed form, has disappeared from the internet because it is to the university's advantage to have MORE students apply so they can turn them down. That ups the school's selectivity on the USN&WR ranking, Princeton review, etc. So, go look at the Schev report for W&M and UVA. That will tell you the exact weighted GPA of the students who are on campus in the fall of 2017. I think that is your best guide because it provides straight facts and test scores. I doubt my DD who got in two years ago (4.6, 34 ACT, 36 on retake) would get in today because the competition is so fierce. Her friends came in with 6.0++ GPAs and 54 college credits under their belt. Our DD had only two college courses under her belt and just a 4.6. You need to demonstrate also some unique quality that will benefit the school, whether that be drumming, bagpipes, debate, national science awards, eagle scout or the equivalent. Others on this website will decry what I've posted but it is the truth. http://www.schev.edu/. And that is why NOVA legislators keep introducing bills to expand the no. of seats at UVA for Nova students. I hope this was helpful.

Look, folks. If you want guaranteed, I say, guaranteed, admission to UVA or William and Mary, go to NVCC and meet the guaranteed transfer criteria. It’s a bit harder for William and Mary, as I recall. But it’s not hard, overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So every student who is accepted to W&M is going to be "a leader of tomorrow" ok got it

The standard are high with Thomas Jefferson, Jon Stewart, James Comey, Mike Tomlin, Robert Gates, etc., as graduates.

^ standards

[Anonymous]

William and Mary is a tough place academically. It’s f****** hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So every student who is accepted to W&M is going to be "a leader of tomorrow" ok got it

No. Every student that gets into ANY school needs to show potential to be a "leader of tomorrow" including the clowns that get drunk and killed, the date-rape experts and the girls that show their titties during spring break in Cancun. They all graduate and move into the parents' basements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:William and Mary is a tough place academically. It’s f****** hard.

Agree! hence the suicide rate! Although technically and statistically easier to get into than UVA, I doubt my UVA kid would have gotten in. He's more social (debate, politics, model united nations) than what W&M is looking for. But if your kid has the stats, go for it!

[Anonymous]

Dd got into Boston College and Michigan and didn't get into W&M. Though we're OOS and this was five years ago.

[Anonymous]

I wish I could see stats comparisons within individual counties.