The Poor Poor Middle Class with a 300k HHI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a net worth of around 3 million dollars in our late thirties. I don't consider us wealthy. To me, rich people are people like the Kardashians.

There is so much conspicuous consumption in the media nowadays.

That's because you're greedy. You have more NW than 95-99% of individuals in the US: https://dqydj.com/net-worth-in-the-united-states-zooming-in-on-the-top-centiles/

Greedy and completely obtuse. You can't honestly think $3m net worth AT ANY AGE is not wealthy.

It is. Factually. Anywhere on earth. You are rich. FREAKING DEAL WITH IT.

Which was, of course, the entire point of the NYT article. "Why are rich people so loathe to admit they're rich?"

^ What PP said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not so sure about the rich feeling "shame" at being rich. For one thing, many are isolated from the many people who might look askance.

I wonder if the problem is actually the moral obligation that the notion of being "rich" might carry. If I am truly rich, should I be doing something substantial to help others? Should I admit that there a huge, systemic issues in my society with race and class?

The alternatives are far more comfortable.

And in fairness, this applies to me as well, although I make much less. Just to a smaller degree.

I think this is precisely the shame they're feeling; it's not that they have money, it's that they know their wealth reflects the inhumanity of the society that made them rich.

And yes, I feel this too on a smaller scale. We deal with it by a.) being grateful, and b.) giving lots to charity, although we could certainly give more (and hope to do so someday).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice for people to understand that there are difference between people making 100k, 200k and 100M

People think that if you make 250K+ that's the same as being rich like bill gates.

Maybe these people are too stupid to realize that. overall the DC area has a middle class lifestyle at below the 500K HHI. New york its higher.

Nobody thinks that.

And Nobody thinks that

Well, our current tax policy thinks that. The start of the top tax bracket is a bit higher ($450k believe), but every dollar above that is taxed the same, no matter how high HHI is. I am not saying $500k is middle class, but there's is a huge difference in lifestyle between $500k (especially if from dual earners in a high cola area) and someone making $1M, $10M, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6 dollar bread is not obscene

It's obscene to think there's something wrong with eating healthily.

What I wonder is why we need this "healthy" bread. Millions of Europeans buy fresh bread every morning. most of it white bread. I don't know what their internal health is, but most are not overweight, so it makes me wonder what is up with US factory bread. When I try to find a fresh loaf of bread, it is white of whole wheat at best, some sourdough. I am at loss as to 6 dollar bread, at least when it comes to weight related issues. How can a French people be generally weight ok, and they eat a lot of bread. I think there is a warped idea of what eating healthy really is. I think another difference that bread here contains sugar, yet in most of Europe it does not.

They are not entirely unrelated, but one part of the issue is that Eating Healthy, Pure Food has become a consumer experience tied to the price tag and the social class that accompanies that price tag. Are the offerings healthy? Often, yes. But it's an Experience and Identity as much as it is science.

And when you go over to crunchy diet fads, anti-GMO, etc. it is all purity and status, and no science at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6 dollar bread is not obscene

It's obscene to think there's something wrong with eating healthily.

What I wonder is why we need this "healthy" bread. Millions of Europeans buy fresh bread every morning. most of it white bread. I don't know what their internal health is, but most are not overweight, so it makes me wonder what is up with US factory bread. When I try to find a fresh loaf of bread, it is white of whole wheat at best, some sourdough. I am at loss as to 6 dollar bread, at least when it comes to weight related issues. How can a French people be generally weight ok, and they eat a lot of bread. I think there is a warped idea of what eating healthy really is. I think another difference that bread here contains sugar, yet in most of Europe it does not.

Europeans eat smaller portions, less processed foods and get more exercise. That's all. It's surprising how the differences in lifestyle really add up. Americans who are overweight generally eat HUGE portions of food and commute via car. You don't have to give up bread to be thin. You just can't eat and eat and eat and not move.

[Anonymous]

We should encourage people to be wealthy by taxing the rich less. If you tax the poor they will want to get richer and thats better for society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6 dollar bread is not obscene

It's obscene to think there's something wrong with eating healthily.

What I wonder is why we need this "healthy" bread. Millions of Europeans buy fresh bread every morning. most of it white bread. I don't know what their internal health is, but most are not overweight, so it makes me wonder what is up with US factory bread. When I try to find a fresh loaf of bread, it is white of whole wheat at best, some sourdough. I am at loss as to 6 dollar bread, at least when it comes to weight related issues. How can a French people be generally weight ok, and they eat a lot of bread. I think there is a warped idea of what eating healthy really is. I think another difference that bread here contains sugar, yet in most of Europe it does not.

Europeans are protected by a far more stringent set of regulations against what corporations can and can't do when preparing food. That's one of the benefits of regulation; it's harder for corporations to put known toxins in your food and water supplies. I follow French news on a daily basis, and they take food quality far, far more seriously than we do. Besides that, as others have noted, portion sizes are smaller and people are more active. Americans drive more than people in almost any other country in the world; that much time spent sitting each day adds up to several healthy years lost in a lifetime.

[Anonymous]

this plot

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/07/opinion/leonhardt-income-inequality.html?mcubz=1&_r=0


shows the real problems start with the 99th percentile. I don't know how anybody can deny that, above this point, this plot is seriously sick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We really are middle class, but I don't think $6 is all that terrible, especially if it's specialty, artisan style bread.

You all are missing the point. It's highly unlikely that woman pays her nanny enough to have the choice to buy $6 bread as her staple loaf. That's why she's hiding it and feels ashamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6 dollar bread is not obscene

It's obscene to think there's something wrong with eating healthily.

What I wonder is why we need this "healthy" bread. Millions of Europeans buy fresh bread every morning. most of it white bread. I don't know what their internal health is, but most are not overweight, so it makes me wonder what is up with US factory bread. When I try to find a fresh loaf of bread, it is white of whole wheat at best, some sourdough. I am at loss as to 6 dollar bread, at least when it comes to weight related issues. How can a French people be generally weight ok, and they eat a lot of bread. I think there is a warped idea of what eating healthy really is. I think another difference that bread here contains sugar, yet in most of Europe it does not.

This is now totally OT, but American wheat strains are different than European ones and have a higher gluten content. We also have a lot of GMO "Round-up ready" wheat here that is not allowed in Europe. These factors may or may not matter to health outcomes, but they are facts.

I know many anecdotes and am aware of one study that found that incidence of self-reported "gluten sensitivity", even of the same people, is lower in Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which perfectly explains why bipartisan policy makers want to keep a century old immigration regulations the way it is. The affluent ruling class does not want young, highly educated foreigners who speak fluent English, to have advantage in getting legal status om the USA and work in their field of study and specialty, instead of receiving government handouts.

I have a problem with giving jobs to immigrants when we have AMERICANS who are NOT being given job opportunities, which is really the basis of the drug crisis. Foreigners are being "imported" because they will work "cheap" and being hired by their own . EX: Pakistani physics teacher proudly proclaimed how he would hire ANY Pakistani rather than a better qualified American because "Pakistanis should hire their own" , when HE was hired by a white, American. (I work with him- I shouldn't even get started on his hatred of American women)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which perfectly explains why bipartisan policy makers want to keep a century old immigration regulations the way it is. The affluent ruling class does not want young, highly educated foreigners who speak fluent English, to have advantage in getting legal status om the USA and work in their field of study and specialty, instead of receiving government handouts.

I have a problem with giving jobs to immigrants when we have AMERICANS who are NOT being given job opportunities, which is really the basis of the drug crisis. Foreigners are being "imported" because they will work "cheap" and being hired by their own . EX: Pakistani physics teacher proudly proclaimed how he would hire ANY Pakistani rather than a better qualified American because "Pakistanis should hire their own" , when HE was hired by a white, American. (I work with him- I shouldn't even get started on his hatred of American women)

How do you know this guy is Pakistani and not an American citizen? Did he tell you? If he is American, you do understand he has the same right to a job as any other American right? Regardless of his crappy views, there are no special rules that say brown people should be passed over for jobs so they can go to REAL (read white) Americans. I feel like the "Americans are being passed over for jobs" is a convenient talking point for the anti-immigrant crowd, who probably get all riled up when they see any brown person with a decent job here, but the fact is unemployment is low, and there are many companies who are having trouble filling jobs. There's no point blaming immigrants when most employable people are working now, and the few that are not think the open positions are beneath them or don't want to move for a job.

[Anonymous]

I like how the topic in "Money and Finance" is now about immigration and gluten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which perfectly explains why bipartisan policy makers want to keep a century old immigration regulations the way it is. The affluent ruling class does not want young, highly educated foreigners who speak fluent English, to have advantage in getting legal status om the USA and work in their field of study and specialty, instead of receiving government handouts.

I have a problem with giving jobs to immigrants when we have AMERICANS who are NOT being given job opportunities, which is really the basis of the drug crisis. Foreigners are being "imported" because they will work "cheap" and being hired by their own . EX: Pakistani physics teacher proudly proclaimed how he would hire ANY Pakistani rather than a better qualified American because "Pakistanis should hire their own" , when HE was hired by a white, American. (I work with him- I shouldn't even get started on his hatred of American women)

How do you know this guy is Pakistani and not an American citizen? Did he tell you? If he is American, you do understand he has the same right to a job as any other American right? Regardless of his crappy views, there are no special rules that say brown people should be passed over for jobs so they can go to REAL (read white) Americans. I feel like the "Americans are being passed over for jobs" is a convenient talking point for the anti-immigrant crowd, who probably get all riled up when they see any brown person with a decent job here, but the fact is unemployment is low, and there are many companies who are having trouble filling jobs. There's no point blaming immigrants when most employable people are working now, and the few that are not think the open positions are beneath them or don't want to move for a job.

Immigrants don't have a constitutional right to have access to the United States. Its a privilege not a "RIGHT". The US does not have any obligation to help correct their poverty nor give them access to our educational system. Furthermore your remark about "BROWN" people is hilarious considering that most of these "Indian" and "Arab" immigrants are "WHITE" and and not only tend to be ANTI AMERICAN but Racist towards BLACK AMERICANS. Point is BROWN FOLKS (BLACK AMERICANS) don't have access to entry level jobs in lots of industries because of the influx of "BROWN" people on one end (Hispanics) and Asian Immigrants on the other (Tech workers). So which "Brown' people are you really worried about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6 dollar bread is not obscene

It's obscene to think there's something wrong with eating healthily.

Six dollar bread is only healthy if it is paired with a five dollar avocado and a fifteen dollar cold pressed juice.

Please. Even poor millennials eat this way, which is why they can't afford to buy homes.

Good point. We should probably instead try to emulate the generation that inherited an economy buoyed by post-WWII/Cold War market openings and still can't hit 3% economic growth anymore.