Converting to Judaism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed that Judaism is the only Abrahamic faith that doesn't proselytize. I think that's cool. Why is it that Judaism doesn't proselytize though?

There are probably a lot of reasons for this but a big one is that Jews were persecuted for centuries and proselytizing would have been asking for trouble. Jews were just hoping for live and let live.

An Orthodox temple will accept converts (assuming you are sincere) (although they may not accept conversion performed by a non-Orthodox rabbi).

There are no Orthodox "temples." A temple is a holy place. There have only been three Orthodox temples, the first and the second temples in Jerusalem and the temple in Elephantine. The Reform reject this idea and say that any building devoted to Jewish prayer is a temple.

1. Presumably the Temple in Elephantine was in violation of Deuteronomy as well. 2. Its kind of anachronistic to refer to the Beit Hamikdash harishon or hasheni as "orthodox" since the term originated in the 19th century. 3. As a side note, in part of the northeastern US some conservative synagogues used (and still use) the term "temple" even though (unlike Reform) they pray for the restoration of the ancient temple in Jerusalem

Temple is used a lot in the South. I grew up in Baltimore hearing it from Jews who had moved North. I never heard the term shul until college.

I don't think I have heard of a Conservative synagogue in the South that had "Temple" in its official name (as happens in NYC and New England). I think people down there use Temple generically because so many of the Synagogues are Reform.

Shul is Yiddish, and so is used in places where Yiddish speaking immigrants set the culture - and its more common the more traditional the community is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Can non-Jewish people attend services?

Yes. You are welcome to do so, in general.

I do remind you that we have denominations, and they are very different.

I don't like the term "denominations" It sounds so, pardon, Protestant, and seems to imply not only differences in theology, but differences in liturgy going back 500 years, and even formal distinctions on who can participate, intermarry etc (depending on whether denominations are in communion with each other). I like the idea that there are no hard and set boundaries along the continuum of Judaism - Reform and Conservative accept each other for most if not all purposes, and there are independent shuls happily in between. Same for Conservative and at least the most liberal Orthodox shuls. Denominationalism has set in more strongly in recent years, esp as CJ has moved left halachically, O has moved right and groups like Open Orthodoxy and the Union for Traditional Judaism have remained small. Though the liturgy is less denominational, as even Reform has become more traditional. (Note there are also smaller groups, Reconstructionist and Renewal notably). But I prefer to call them movements, or, as the Israelis do, "trends". Reform and Conservative each have a grouping of institutions (synagogue associations, seminaries, youth movements, etc) but many of the most exciting things are happening with independent institutions and prayer groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed that Judaism is the only Abrahamic faith that doesn't proselytize. I think that's cool. Why is it that Judaism doesn't proselytize though?

Traditionally, there is no reason to try to convert others. Jews believe there are certain rules and laws they need to follow to be good Jews. They believe there are certain moral imperatives you need to follow to be a good person. But, there's no spiritual or practical advantage to following Jewish practice if you aren't Jewish.

Unless you marry someone jewish, then you have to convert
The grandparents want jewish grandchildren, and unless you convert they will not be

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed that Judaism is the only Abrahamic faith that doesn't proselytize. I think that's cool. Why is it that Judaism doesn't proselytize though?

Traditionally, there is no reason to try to convert others. Jews believe there are certain rules and laws they need to follow to be good Jews. They believe there are certain moral imperatives you need to follow to be a good person. But, there's no spiritual or practical advantage to following Jewish practice if you aren't Jewish.

Unless you marry someone jewish, then you have to convert
The grandparents want jewish grandchildren, and unless you convert they will not be

This is not true in Reform Judaism. If one parent is Jewish, and the children are raised Jewish, they are considered Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sister in law converted (before she married my brother). She went to conversion classes for something like 18 months. She had to study. She wrote a few papers. She met with the rabbi several times. She had to have a ritual bath at the temple with the rabbi there. She converted through a reform temple. I don't think an Orthodox temple will help people convert.

I converted and this was exactly my experience and almost the same timeline. I also needed to attend services regularly during that time. (like every week). I converted to conservative Judaism. You also have to go in front of a Beit Din and answer questions (at least I did).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed that Judaism is the only Abrahamic faith that doesn't proselytize. I think that's cool. Why is it that Judaism doesn't proselytize though?

Traditionally, there is no reason to try to convert others. Jews believe there are certain rules and laws they need to follow to be good Jews. They believe there are certain moral imperatives you need to follow to be a good person. But, there's no spiritual or practical advantage to following Jewish practice if you aren't Jewish.

Unless you marry someone jewish, then you have to convert
The grandparents want jewish grandchildren, and unless you convert they will not be

You don't have to. My DH didn't convert. He does fully accept a Jewish house and raising a Jewish family. Our children are Jewish. (And would be seen as such if he were the Jewish parent and I wasn't, since we're Reform.)

[Anonymous]

The difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish, is that as a Jew, you are obligated in 613 commandments, as opposed to only 7 Noachide laws that all people are obligated in.
A conversion that is acceptable by all is one where the convert takes upon himself/herself obligation to adhere to Jewish law and keep all the 613.
Before taking on such an obligation, one must be fully aware of what the obligation is, and one must be sincere in accepting this obligation.
One can be a great person, and a great friend without obligation to the 613.
If one is serious about this obligation, then circumcision, for a man, is just one of those 613. Frankly, keeping the laws of Sabbath, or pure speech are much harder, as they are ongoing, as opposed to the"one and done" circumcision. And yes, I am a woman. (With two circumcised sons).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Can non-Jewish people attend services?

Absolutely! I'm Jewish; DH isn't. He attends services with us, and at this point, fully participates (as much as he's comfortable).

My husband also attends. There are restrictions at my shul about non-Jews leading certain prayers, but other than that, they are completely welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Can non-Jewish people attend services?

Yes. You are welcome to do so, in general.

I do remind you that we have denominations, and they are very different.

I don't like the term "denominations" It sounds so, pardon, Protestant, and seems to imply not only differences in theology, but differences in liturgy going back 500 years, and even formal distinctions on who can participate, intermarry etc (depending on whether denominations are in communion with each other). I like the idea that there are no hard and set boundaries along the continuum of Judaism - Reform and Conservative accept each other for most if not all purposes, and there are independent shuls happily in between. Same for Conservative and at least the most liberal Orthodox shuls. Denominationalism has set in more strongly in recent years, esp as CJ has moved left halachically, O has moved right and groups like Open Orthodoxy and the Union for Traditional Judaism have remained small. Though the liturgy is less denominational, as even Reform has become more traditional. (Note there are also smaller groups, Reconstructionist and Renewal notably). But I prefer to call them movements, or, as the Israelis do, "trends". Reform and Conservative each have a grouping of institutions (synagogue associations, seminaries, youth movements, etc) but many of the most exciting things are happening with independent institutions and prayer groups.

There are a lot of words in this answer. Call them flavors, trends, denominations... whatever. For the PP who asked, you will find services extremely different among the "groups". I just reread the first sentence PP wrote, and other than the fact that our differences don't go back quite as far as Luther, I think we meet the standard she set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Can non-Jewish people attend services?

Yes. You are welcome to do so, in general.

I do remind you that we have denominations, and they are very different.

I don't like the term "denominations" It sounds so, pardon, Protestant, and seems to imply not only differences in theology, but differences in liturgy going back 500 years, and even formal distinctions on who can participate, intermarry etc (depending on whether denominations are in communion with each other). I like the idea that there are no hard and set boundaries along the continuum of Judaism - Reform and Conservative accept each other for most if not all purposes, and there are independent shuls happily in between. Same for Conservative and at least the most liberal Orthodox shuls. Denominationalism has set in more strongly in recent years, esp as CJ has moved left halachically, O has moved right and groups like Open Orthodoxy and the Union for Traditional Judaism have remained small. Though the liturgy is less denominational, as even Reform has become more traditional. (Note there are also smaller groups, Reconstructionist and Renewal notably). But I prefer to call them movements, or, as the Israelis do, "trends". Reform and Conservative each have a grouping of institutions (synagogue associations, seminaries, youth movements, etc) but many of the most exciting things are happening with independent institutions and prayer groups.

There are a lot of words in this answer. Call them flavors, trends, denominations... whatever. For the PP who asked, you will find services extremely different among the "groups". I just reread the first sentence PP wrote, and other than the fact that our differences don't go back quite as far as Luther, I think we meet the standard she set.

Well other than that a Reform Jew can walk into an Orthodox Synagogue and be called to the Torah - not questions about who is in communion with whom. A Reform Jew (heck a pair of Reform Jews) can be married under the supervision of an Orthodox rabbi, no asking for them to "convert" to Orthodoxy, as when a Protestant marries a Roman Catholic.

For more on the growing tendency to ignore denominations, see the independent day schools movement, independent rabbinical seminaries, the indepedent minyan movement (and its lead educational institution, Yeshiva Hadar), etc, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish, is that as a Jew, you are obligated in 613 commandments, as opposed to only 7 Noachide laws that all people are obligated in.
A conversion that is acceptable by all is one where the convert takes upon himself/herself obligation to adhere to Jewish law and keep all the 613.
Before taking on such an obligation, one must be fully aware of what the obligation is, and one must be sincere in accepting this obligation.
One can be a great person, and a great friend without obligation to the 613.
If one is serious about this obligation, then circumcision, for a man, is just one of those 613. Frankly, keeping the laws of Sabbath, or pure speech are much harder, as they are ongoing, as opposed to the"one and done" circumcision. And yes, I am a woman. (With two circumcised sons).

Can a person convert and then become a nominal jew? Will the conversion come under suspicion if that happens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish, is that as a Jew, you are obligated in 613 commandments, as opposed to only 7 Noachide laws that all people are obligated in.
A conversion that is acceptable by all is one where the convert takes upon himself/herself obligation to adhere to Jewish law and keep all the 613.
Before taking on such an obligation, one must be fully aware of what the obligation is, and one must be sincere in accepting this obligation.
One can be a great person, and a great friend without obligation to the 613.
If one is serious about this obligation, then circumcision, for a man, is just one of those 613. Frankly, keeping the laws of Sabbath, or pure speech are much harder, as they are ongoing, as opposed to the"one and done" circumcision. And yes, I am a woman. (With two circumcised sons).

Can a person convert and then become a nominal jew? Will the conversion come under suspicion if that happens?

I've seen it. Only the Orthodox seem really worried about this as a personal failing of the convert. The Conservative and Reform families seem more worried about a competing religion being exposed to the grandkids. The converts among my former Conservative in-laws were cautioned against even visiting their Christian relatives during the holidays. On the other hand, my former FIL was very critical of converts who became too observant he thought. He regularly called one relative a zealot and teased me that he found it less painful that I was Catholic rather than Modern Orthodox.

Among my college friends, 3/4 of us either married Jews or were Jews who married Gentiles or other non-Jews. Not a single inmarriage among any of the Jews. Nearly all of the non-Jewish women converted in the first couple months of marriage. Including a friend who went to the Mikveh at 39 weeks pregnant. I didn't convert and my marriage ended in divorce. Another friend didn't convert and in 5 years her DH became a Catholic. Of the remaining interfaith couples, the ones who converted just to make in-laws happy all lapsed away from Judaism. They became agnostics. I think one still practices Buddhism pretty openly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish, is that as a Jew, you are obligated in 613 commandments, as opposed to only 7 Noachide laws that all people are obligated in.
A conversion that is acceptable by all is one where the convert takes upon himself/herself obligation to adhere to Jewish law and keep all the 613.
Before taking on such an obligation, one must be fully aware of what the obligation is, and one must be sincere in accepting this obligation.
One can be a great person, and a great friend without obligation to the 613.
If one is serious about this obligation, then circumcision, for a man, is just one of those 613. Frankly, keeping the laws of Sabbath, or pure speech are much harder, as they are ongoing, as opposed to the"one and done" circumcision. And yes, I am a woman. (With two circumcised sons).

Can a person convert and then become a nominal jew? Will the conversion come under suspicion if that happens?

Why would you do that?
If you are interested in marriage to a jew, and they are serious about their Judaism, then they'll expect a Jewish household that adheres to Jewish law. If they are not serious about their Judaism, then insisting that their spouse convert is hypocritical.
Don't convert just to appease someone. Don't change just to please someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish, is that as a Jew, you are obligated in 613 commandments, as opposed to only 7 Noachide laws that all people are obligated in.
A conversion that is acceptable by all is one where the convert takes upon himself/herself obligation to adhere to Jewish law and keep all the 613.
Before taking on such an obligation, one must be fully aware of what the obligation is, and one must be sincere in accepting this obligation.
One can be a great person, and a great friend without obligation to the 613.
If one is serious about this obligation, then circumcision, for a man, is just one of those 613. Frankly, keeping the laws of Sabbath, or pure speech are much harder, as they are ongoing, as opposed to the"one and done" circumcision. And yes, I am a woman. (With two circumcised sons).

Can a person convert and then become a nominal jew? Will the conversion come under suspicion if that happens?

Why would you do that?
If you are interested in marriage to a jew, and they are serious about their Judaism, then they'll expect a Jewish household that adheres to Jewish law. If they are not serious about their Judaism, then insisting that their spouse convert is hypocritical.
Don't convert just to appease someone. Don't change just to please someone else.

If you were not raised in those circles, you feel like a stranger. As you get older, the religiousness just starts to get old
If you were used to a non-religious life growing up, eventually you get tired of putting on the show

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish, is that as a Jew, you are obligated in 613 commandments, as opposed to only 7 Noachide laws that all people are obligated in.
A conversion that is acceptable by all is one where the convert takes upon himself/herself obligation to adhere to Jewish law and keep all the 613.
Before taking on such an obligation, one must be fully aware of what the obligation is, and one must be sincere in accepting this obligation.
One can be a great person, and a great friend without obligation to the 613.
If one is serious about this obligation, then circumcision, for a man, is just one of those 613. Frankly, keeping the laws of Sabbath, or pure speech are much harder, as they are ongoing, as opposed to the"one and done" circumcision. And yes, I am a woman. (With two circumcised sons).

Can a person convert and then become a nominal jew? Will the conversion come under suspicion if that happens?

Why would you do that?
If you are interested in marriage to a jew, and they are serious about their Judaism, then they'll expect a Jewish household that adheres to Jewish law. If they are not serious about their Judaism, then insisting that their spouse convert is hypocritical.
Don't convert just to appease someone. Don't change just to please someone else.

If you were not raised in those circles, you feel like a stranger. As you get older, the religiousness just starts to get old
If you were used to a non-religious life growing up, eventually you get tired of putting on the show

Then don't do it. It's not worth it.
You can learn more about the religion so you don't feel like a stranger, but don't put on a show for other people.