Article about school vouchers WaPo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to know how the voucher system benefits students with special needs. The article gives only passing mention of this issue. Are schools that accept vouchers required to comply with federal requirements under IDEA? If so, how are these arrangements tracked and do families have recourse if a private school fails to provide supports required? If not, why not?

In other states there are vouchers offered to students with special needs and IEPs and, upon accepting the voucher, the parent has to waive their right to IDEA and the schools do NOT have to comply with IEPs.

Of course not every parent understands this - many stories of families who got screwed in Florida this way (a program that DeVos really likes and hopes to replicate in more states). But there are also parents who are happy.

So students with SNs are once again given short shrift in a voucher system where they either don't even get offered the choice of using a voucher or if they do, the choice includes losing their federally guaranteed right to access the school's curriculum on as equal a footing as a student without SN? How is this fair?

That's because DCPS made the decision last year to try to hoze special needs kids in privates who won't enroll in DCPS. DCPS wants to boost head count, evidently no matter what the impact. It's all about how many $ per head for a DCPS school's budget. Fortunately, Federal law mandates services to special needs kids in privates to be provided by DCPS with Federal money, assuming DCPS can find kids and count correctly (not always the case, especially given the DL case decision from the Federal appeals court).

For all that effort to try to boost its numbers, DCPS could actually achieve its goal if it made its schools safe. But providing services to make schools safe and actually provide special needs services costs money from the school budget - that's the wrong plan. Just bring in the head count and forget about the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about the gap between the $ offered by the vouchers and the price of tuition at most privates. It doesn't even cover Catholic school tuition, much less Sidwell, GDS, etc. So the privates are still putting up a large amount of scholarship money, or the kid can't enroll.

We know a few older siblings of my kid's DCPS classmates who are going to private using this voucher, and are happy to do so. But the private school is still covering the difference between the voucher and tuition with a scholarship and bearing the bulk of the financial aid to the family. And if they hadn't done so, the family would not be able to cover the tuition.

It seems like DeVos is trying to show that with vouchers you can attend any school you want to, and it is just not so.

Wrong. Please investigate further.

PP here. I meant the vouchers don't cover tuition at ALL the Catholic schools in the voucher program. Holy Trinity in Georgetown charges $17,700 for non-Catholic/out of diocese, Visitation is $29,200 , Gonzaga and St. John's = $22,100, St. Anslem's is $27,000, St. Peters on Cap Hill is $14,000 for Catholics, St. Augustine is $13,500.

These amounts are just tuition. I didn't include application fees, academic admissions testing, books, supplies, uniforms, aftercare, or transportation. Even if tuition is covered by the voucher, it's up to each school to decide which of the other fees might be paid with voucher funds.

Remember, the maximum voucher amounts for the lowest-income families are $8,653 for K-8 and $12,981 for 9th-12th.

Vouchers CANNOT be used for any of the following:

Late Fees (even though vouchers are issued 2 or 3 times a year, not all upfront)
Parent participation and/or fundraising fees
Penalties for student behavior
Basic school supplies
Computers
Personal transportation
Other items not related to academic success
Other fees your school has determined are not billable to your student's scholarship

Bottom line: The voucher system as it's set up is a bait-and-switch. It promises parent choice, but some of the options are completely out of reach. It targets kids at certain schools with -- again -- no way for parents to accurately compare the safety and effectiveness of the limited number of schools they might be able to afford.

Some high-cost schools claim to have voucher students, but we just have to take their word for it because there is no real oversight of the program.

Here's an analogy: food choices. All parents want their kids to have "healthy" food. WIC funds can pay for cereal. Standardized nutrition and ingredients labeling lets parents choose between nut- free or high protein or low calorie or your kid's favorite that you know they'll eat consistently.

Now imagine that some of the options are organic, no artificial colors, flavors, high protein, whole grain and $10 a box. Others are $3 but lack a full list of ingredients (could be nuts). A few are 99 cents a pound, but no expiration or manufacturer listed. Even if you find the perfect cereal for your child, it may be only available at a store two bus rides away.

Bottom line: public money = public oversight

St. Peter's is $11,500, and there's a Catholic discount. Other parochials are significantly cheaper. The Washington School for Girls is all scholarship. Our Lady of Victory is a top parochial and two-time Blue Ribbon winner; it's tuition is $9100 for Catholics and another $1000 for non. Keep spreading fake news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to know how the voucher system benefits students with special needs. The article gives only passing mention of this issue. Are schools that accept vouchers required to comply with federal requirements under IDEA? If so, how are these arrangements tracked and do families have recourse if a private school fails to provide supports required? If not, why not?

In other states there are vouchers offered to students with special needs and IEPs and, upon accepting the voucher, the parent has to waive their right to IDEA and the schools do NOT have to comply with IEPs.

Of course not every parent understands this - many stories of families who got screwed in Florida this way (a program that DeVos really likes and hopes to replicate in more states). But there are also parents who are happy.

So students with SNs are once again given short shrift in a voucher system where they either don't even get offered the choice of using a voucher or if they do, the choice includes losing their federally guaranteed right to access the school's curriculum on as equal a footing as a student without SN? How is this fair?

That's because DCPS made the decision last year to try to hoze special needs kids in privates who won't enroll in DCPS. DCPS wants to boost head count, evidently no matter what the impact. It's all about how many $ per head for a DCPS school's budget. Fortunately, Federal law mandates services to special needs kids in privates to be provided by DCPS with Federal money, assuming DCPS can find kids and count correctly (not always the case, especially given the DL case decision from the Federal appeals court).

For all that effort to try to boost its numbers, DCPS could actually achieve its goal if it made its schools safe. But providing services to make schools safe and actually provide special needs services costs money from the school budget - that's the wrong plan. Just bring in the head count and forget about the rest.

Federal law mandates some portion, unspecified, of DC's IDEA $ has to be spend on children in private schools. But it isn't required to be comprehensive or equal to what would be provided in a public school.

And for students who need differentiated different instruction in all subjects to access the curriculum - e.g. some students with autism, hearing loss - the 2 hours of services a week approach is useless. There is no oversight of the reading and math instruction provided by the private school for students with disabilities, or requirement that they make progress.

[Anonymous]

What recourse do students with SN at voucher schools have f the school does not provide appropriate supports? Who do the schools report to? What is the accountability?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What recourse do students with SN at voucher schools have f the school does not provide appropriate supports? Who do the schools report to? What is the accountability?

The schools don't have to provide any services and there's no oversight. Their IEPs are with DCPS - e.g. DCPS has to come to their voucher school and provide, for example, 1 hour of speech therapy or occupational therapy a week if that's what is in their IEP. But nothing is promised or required in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ There are way too many ignorant people on this forum. My child has special needs and attends a parochial with many voucher families. The atmosphere is diverse and the academics are top shelf. My daughter gets therapy services in her parochial school provided by DCPS through Federal IDEA. DCPS tried to shut services to special needs kids last year to boost their own enrollment, and that didn't go well; DCPS -> mean to special needs kids, that my personal experience. That's probably why DCPS lost the special needs DL case in Federal appeals court a couple of weeks ago for not trying to find and help special needs kids. If you want a school system that cares about your kid and you want academic rigor, go parochial. If you can afford an Obama solution at Sidwell, power to you.

It would be helpful if trolls on this forum strop spreading fake news. There's already plenty of that on Facebook and cable TV.

Since you based your reply on anecdotal evidence, here is my story. My sister and I attended a parochial school. The academics were awful, and we spent most of our time learning a Christian doctrine. And by learning I mean memorizing. My sister had special needs and was routinely referred to as "stupid" and "a dummy". Some of my classmates were sexually abused by our local bishop who was moved to Latin America. They destroyed my sister's self esteem for good, ruined untold lives due to child abuse, and was a horrible experience. Thankfully I convinced my parents to send me to a local public school. Also I was one of the few brown kids there and the teachers and students said racist stuff to me constantly. I was a living nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ There are way too many ignorant people on this forum. My child has special needs and attends a parochial with many voucher families. The atmosphere is diverse and the academics are top shelf. My daughter gets therapy services in her parochial school provided by DCPS through Federal IDEA. DCPS tried to shut services to special needs kids last year to boost their own enrollment, and that didn't go well; DCPS -> mean to special needs kids, that my personal experience. That's probably why DCPS lost the special needs DL case in Federal appeals court a couple of weeks ago for not trying to find and help special needs kids. If you want a school system that cares about your kid and you want academic rigor, go parochial. If you can afford an Obama solution at Sidwell, power to you.

It would be helpful if trolls on this forum strop spreading fake news. There's already plenty of that on Facebook and cable TV.

Since you based your reply on anecdotal evidence, here is my story. My sister and I attended a parochial school. The academics were awful, and we spent most of our time learning a Christian doctrine. And by learning I mean memorizing. My sister had special needs and was routinely referred to as "stupid" and "a dummy". Some of my classmates were sexually abused by our local bishop who was moved to Latin America. They destroyed my sister's self esteem for good, ruined untold lives due to child abuse, and was a horrible experience. Thankfully I convinced my parents to send me to a local public school. Also I was one of the few brown kids there and the teachers and students said racist stuff to me constantly. I was a living nightmare.

I was one of the few brown kids at the Catholic school, not the local public school. Thankfully we left that place and my sister got the help she needed at the local public school. The catholic school had devastating consequences for my family. Glad that we switched to the public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What recourse do students with SN at voucher schools have f the school does not provide appropriate supports? Who do the schools report to? What is the accountability?

The schools don't have to provide any services and there's no oversight. Their IEPs are with DCPS - e.g. DCPS has to come to their voucher school and provide, for example, 1 hour of speech therapy or occupational therapy a week if that's what is in their IEP. But nothing is promised or required in the classroom.

So are voucher schools truly a viable choice for students with SN if the voucher school is not required to provide the same supports as a traditional public school? Do students with SN have fewer choices than other students under the voucher system simply because they have SN? Is true school choice only for NT students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What recourse do students with SN at voucher schools have f the school does not provide appropriate supports? Who do the schools report to? What is the accountability?

The schools don't have to provide any services and there's no oversight. Their IEPs are with DCPS - e.g. DCPS has to come to their voucher school and provide, for example, 1 hour of speech therapy or occupational therapy a week if that's what is in their IEP. But nothing is promised or required in the classroom.

So are voucher schools truly a viable choice for students with SN if the voucher school is not required to provide the same supports as a traditional public school? Do students with SN have fewer choices than other students under the voucher system simply because they have SN? Is true school choice only for NT students?

It depends. If you have a child with mild special needs, it could work for you. But for most students it would be a risk.

[Anonymous]

^^^ Your child would be in a safe environment where s/he could learn. Getting beat on in DCPS, especially as a special needs child, isn't conducive to learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ There are way too many ignorant people on this forum. My child has special needs and attends a parochial with many voucher families. The atmosphere is diverse and the academics are top shelf. My daughter gets therapy services in her parochial school provided by DCPS through Federal IDEA. DCPS tried to shut services to special needs kids last year to boost their own enrollment, and that didn't go well; DCPS -> mean to special needs kids, that my personal experience. That's probably why DCPS lost the special needs DL case in Federal appeals court a couple of weeks ago for not trying to find and help special needs kids. If you want a school system that cares about your kid and you want academic rigor, go parochial. If you can afford an Obama solution at Sidwell, power to you.

It would be helpful if trolls on this forum strop spreading fake news. There's already plenty of that on Facebook and cable TV.

Since you based your reply on anecdotal evidence, here is my story. My sister and I attended a parochial school. The academics were awful, and we spent most of our time learning a Christian doctrine. And by learning I mean memorizing. My sister had special needs and was routinely referred to as "stupid" and "a dummy". Some of my classmates were sexually abused by our local bishop who was moved to Latin America. They destroyed my sister's self esteem for good, ruined untold lives due to child abuse, and was a horrible experience. Thankfully I convinced my parents to send me to a local public school. Also I was one of the few brown kids there and the teachers and students said racist stuff to me constantly. I was a living nightmare.

I was one of the few brown kids at the Catholic school, not the local public school. Thankfully we left that place and my sister got the help she needed at the local public school. The catholic school had devastating consequences for my family. Glad that we switched to the public school.

Sorry to hear that. I believe you posted previously on the issue on a diffwrent thread with exhibited religious animosity. Were you transferred to DCPS? Did your public school have metal detectors? Does that Catholic school have the same issues today? Do you work for DCPS currently?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ There are way too many ignorant people on this forum. My child has special needs and attends a parochial with many voucher families. The atmosphere is diverse and the academics are top shelf. My daughter gets therapy services in her parochial school provided by DCPS through Federal IDEA. DCPS tried to shut services to special needs kids last year to boost their own enrollment, and that didn't go well; DCPS -> mean to special needs kids, that my personal experience. That's probably why DCPS lost the special needs DL case in Federal appeals court a couple of weeks ago for not trying to find and help special needs kids. If you want a school system that cares about your kid and you want academic rigor, go parochial. If you can afford an Obama solution at Sidwell, power to you.

It would be helpful if trolls on this forum strop spreading fake news. There's already plenty of that on Facebook and cable TV.

Since you based your reply on anecdotal evidence, here is my story. My sister and I attended a parochial school. The academics were awful, and we spent most of our time learning a Christian doctrine. And by learning I mean memorizing. My sister had special needs and was routinely referred to as "stupid" and "a dummy". Some of my classmates were sexually abused by our local bishop who was moved to Latin America. They destroyed my sister's self esteem for good, ruined untold lives due to child abuse, and was a horrible experience. Thankfully I convinced my parents to send me to a local public school. Also I was one of the few brown kids there and the teachers and students said racist stuff to me constantly. I was a living nightmare.

I was one of the few brown kids at the Catholic school, not the local public school. Thankfully we left that place and my sister got the help she needed at the local public school. The catholic school had devastating consequences for my family. Glad that we switched to the public school.

Sorry to hear that. I believe you posted previously on the issue on a diffwrent thread with exhibited religious animosity. Were you transferred to DCPS? Did your public school have metal detectors? Does that Catholic school have the same issues today? Do you work for DCPS currently?

I do not work for dcps. Do you work for the Catholic Church? You might have had a good experience at catholic school, but don't be surprised if your children feel differently but are too afraid to tell you. Also this is a forum for public schools, so it seems you come here just to promote Catholic schools which really makes me think you work for the church or are here to promote your religion.

Also- the many children who were sexually abused by the church did not work for dcps. Shame on you for trying to discredit them.

[Anonymous]

^^^ Troll, you only answered one question. And no, I don't work for the Catholic Church and furthermore I don't care about promoting religion. I only care about safe schools, quality academics and growing/rejuvenating the urban core. DCPS fulfills none of those objectives. I didn't start this thread, but it's here so I'll comment just as you evidently will. This thread is also about charters, so the more of those with voucher options would certainly be helpful to keep and attract middle-class families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Troll, you only answered one question. And no, I don't work for the Catholic Church and furthermore I don't care about promoting religion. I only care about safe schools, quality academics and growing/rejuvenating the urban core. DCPS fulfills none of those objectives. I didn't start this thread, but it's here so I'll comment just as you evidently will. This thread is also about charters, so the more of those with voucher options would certainly be helpful to keep and attract middle-class families.

You mean more charters that accept vouchers? Why would that be necessary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Your child would be in a safe environment where s/he could learn. Getting beat on in DCPS, especially as a special needs child, isn't conducive to learning.

But the problem is that kids with severe special needs will likely NOT be able to learn without the supports outlined in their IEPs. And the private schools are not obligated to comply with the IEP. Also, bullying happens in parochial schools, too. DCPS doesn't have a monopoly on it.