I hate how religious America is

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canada must be nice. In the states we're subjected to an absolute onslaught of religious - mostly Christian - influence. It affects how we treat gay people, how we process science and climate change, how guilty we should feel about ourselves, and it also suppresses human nature and healthy sexuality. So that's it. I wish people could look past the fairytales about burning bushes, talking snakes, stoning gays, and the like and understand that you can still be a good, moral person without this stuff.

Canada is lovely, yes. And there are countless atheists and agnostics who are good, moral people. That said, of course (1) much of what we deem "good" and "moral" is derived from our religious foundations, commandments, and beatitudes, and (2) one not need believe in God to also believe in the fundamental goodness of Judeo-Christian moral teachings.

But as for the rest of your ignorant post, let's just say I will pray for your well-being.

1) much of what we deem good and moral predates organized religion and can be found in the behavior of other primates, as recent studies have shown.

2) There is both good and bad -- some really horrible stuff - in Judeo-Christian teachings. They are not needed to lead a good life, as witnessed by the many non- and former Christians and Jews who live very moral lives without religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canada must be nice. In the states we're subjected to an absolute onslaught of religious - mostly Christian - influence. It affects how we treat gay people, how we process science and climate change, how guilty we should feel about ourselves, and it also suppresses human nature and healthy sexuality. So that's it. I wish people could look past the fairytales about burning bushes, talking snakes, stoning gays, and the like and understand that you can still be a good, moral person without this stuff.

Dude. I regularly drive past a church with a pride flag out front. I go to a synagogue where we read the portions about the burning bush and the snake, but I know plenty of people there fighting global warming, and we are LGBT friendly.

I am tired of how religion is equated to fundamentalism, esp Christian fundamentalism.

But, yeah you SHOULD feel guilty. Unless you have called your mother in the last two days.

If you and churches like yours are so tired of the effects of bad religious teachings, how about doing something about it? Openly denounce such groups, effectively showing how they do not represent your religion. Unlike atheists who simply complain about religion, fundamentalists actually degrade what is good about religion, as the "good" religious people ignore them and complain about atheists instead. Atheists state facts about the Bible that many good religious people accept. Meanwhile, fundamentalists are out there trying to take away civil and religious liberties from everyone who doesn't believe exactly the way they do.

[Anonymous]

If OP were running the country it would be as intolerant and hate-filled as Trump's America, just differently ignorant and hate-filled.

Come to think of it, OP may be a Trumpette. Makes sense.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Canada must be nice. In the states we're subjected to an absolute onslaught of religious - mostly Christian - influence. It affects how we treat gay people, how we process science and climate change, how guilty we should feel about ourselves, and it also suppresses human nature and healthy sexuality. So that's it. I wish people could look past the fairytales about burning bushes, talking snakes, stoning gays, and the like and understand that you can still be a good, moral person without this stuff.[/quote]

Dude. I regularly drive past a church with a pride flag out front. I go to a synagogue where we read the portions about the burning bush and the snake, but I know plenty of people there fighting global warming, and we are LGBT friendly.

[b]I am tired of how religion is equated to fundamentalism, esp Christian fundamentalism.[/b]

But, yeah you SHOULD feel guilty. Unless you have called your mother in the last two days. [/quote]

If you and churches like yours are so tired of the effects of bad religious teachings, how about doing something about it? Openly denounce such groups, effectively showing how they do not represent your religion. Unlike atheists who simply complain about religion, fundamentalists actually degrade what is good about religion, as the "good" religious people ignore them and complain about atheists instead. Atheists state facts about the Bible that many good religious people accept. Meanwhile, fundamentalists are out there trying to take away civil and religious liberties from everyone who doesn't believe exactly the way they do.[/quote]

Many do. The PP you're quoting mentioned signs and actions. If you were part of these progressive religious groups you'd know that many DO denounce intolerant religions. They show up behind church and synagogue banners at progressive marches--I saw them at the women's march in January. I've even seen religious people denouncing anti-LGBT evangelicals on DCUM, and recently too. My mom drives around with a bumper sticker saying "Christian and progressive" and I've seen many variations on that theme.

Or maybe OP is actually smarter and more sane than this but is paid by some atheist organization to troll DCUM. For her sake, we can only hope.

I'm so tired of atheists who don't want to "see" this. These are the deliberately ignorant (or is it deliberately obtuse) and undeniably bigoted atheists. There are plenty of open-minded atheists (including among my friends and family) but they're willing to see shades of color and difference, unlike OP.

People who pitch their whole identity around hating another group, like OP, and who feed that identity through willful ignorance, repetition of debunked slander and being deliberately blind and obtuse, need to be sent to some deprogramming center like the centers for cult members and jihadists. Cult-like hate has no place in this world. And yes, OP's hate is "cult-like". To me, bigoted hatred and cults have a lot in common.

[Anonymous]

Reposting my reply to 8:53 for formatting.

**********

Many do. The PP you're quoting mentioned signs and actions. If you were part of these progressive religious groups you'd know that many DO denounce intolerant religions. They show up behind church and synagogue banners at progressive marches--I saw them at the women's march in January. I've even seen religious people denouncing anti-LGBT evangelicals on DCUM, and recently too. My mom drives around with a bumper sticker saying "Christian and progressive" and I've seen many variations on that theme.

Or maybe OP is actually smarter and more sane than this but is paid by some atheist organization to troll DCUM. For her sake, we can only hope.

I'm so tired of atheists who don't want to "see" this. These are the deliberately ignorant (or is it deliberately obtuse) and undeniably bigoted atheists. There are plenty of open-minded atheists (including among my friends and family) but they're willing to see shades of color and difference, unlike OP.

People who pitch their whole identity around hating another group, like OP, and who feed that identity through willful ignorance, repetition of debunked slander and being deliberately blind and obtuse, need to be sent to some deprogramming center like the centers for cult members and jihadists. Cult-like hate has no place in this world. And yes, OP's hate is "cult-like". To me, bigoted hatred and cults have a lot in common.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand this. I'm Christian and would kill to have some Christian friends - and simply to be around people who don't bash me for living my life in a certain manner.

The US isn't as religious as you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canada must be nice. In the states we're subjected to an absolute onslaught of religious - mostly Christian - influence. It affects how we treat gay people, how we process science and climate change, how guilty we should feel about ourselves, and it also suppresses human nature and healthy sexuality. So that's it. I wish people could look past the fairytales about burning bushes, talking snakes, stoning gays, and the like and understand that you can still be a good, moral person without this stuff.

Dude. I regularly drive past a church with a pride flag out front. I go to a synagogue where we read the portions about the burning bush and the snake, but I know plenty of people there fighting global warming, and we are LGBT friendly.

I am tired of how religion is equated to fundamentalism, esp Christian fundamentalism.

But, yeah you SHOULD feel guilty. Unless you have called your mother in the last two days.

If you and churches like yours are so tired of the effects of bad religious teachings, how about doing something about it? Openly denounce such groups, effectively showing how they do not represent your religion. Unlike atheists who simply complain about religion, fundamentalists actually degrade what is good about religion, as the "good" religious people ignore them and complain about atheists instead. Atheists state facts about the Bible that many good religious people accept. Meanwhile, fundamentalists are out there trying to take away civil and religious liberties from everyone who doesn't believe exactly the way they do.

My synagogue is not in the habit of denouncing other religious bodies - whether Christian fundie, Christian liberals, Muslims, other varieties of Judaism etc. Nor do we denounce atheists. Aside from that likely not being an effective way to persuade people, it also would be kind of dangerous for us, a tiny minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. I'm Christian and would kill to have some Christian friends - and simply to be around people who don't bash me for living my life in a certain manner.

The US isn't as religious as you think.

Where do you live? Location seems to be a big factor.

And maybe perhaps the denomination. Regional differences there as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. I'm Christian and would kill to have some Christian friends - and simply to be around people who don't bash me for living my life in a certain manner.

The US isn't as religious as you think.

Where do you live? Location seems to be a big factor.

And maybe perhaps the denomination. Regional differences there as well.

Good point. I live in the south, but I'm Episcopalian - although too young and conservative for them. Too educated for the local Baptists, so I usually run into the college-educated atheists who can't understand why I'm faithful to my husband and don't drink much. Believe it or not, it's seriously isolating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. I'm Christian and would kill to have some Christian friends - and simply to be around people who don't bash me for living my life in a certain manner.

The US isn't as religious as you think.

Where do you live? Location seems to be a big factor.

And maybe perhaps the denomination. Regional differences there as well.

Good point. I live in the south, but I'm Episcopalian - although too young and conservative for them. Too educated for the local Baptists, so I usually run into the college-educated atheists who can't understand why I'm faithful to my husband and don't drink much. Believe it or not, it's seriously isolating.

Hmmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. I'm Christian and would kill to have some Christian friends - and simply to be around people who don't bash me for living my life in a certain manner.

The US isn't as religious as you think.

Where do you live? Location seems to be a big factor.

And maybe perhaps the denomination. Regional differences there as well.

Good point. I live in the south, but I'm Episcopalian - although too young and conservative for them. Too educated for the local Baptists, so I usually run into the college-educated atheists who can't understand why I'm faithful to my husband and don't drink much. Believe it or not, it's seriously isolating.

Hmmm.

Could be it's just that particular batch of atheists that are like that. The atheists I know tend to drink less than other people -- and have more stable marriages than religious people.

Certainly there are a lot of drinking, divorced episcopalians -- at least in the north

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. I'm Christian and would kill to have some Christian friends - and simply to be around people who don't bash me for living my life in a certain manner.

The US isn't as religious as you think.

Where do you live? Location seems to be a big factor.

And maybe perhaps the denomination. Regional differences there as well.

Good point. I live in the south, but I'm Episcopalian - although too young and conservative for them. Too educated for the local Baptists, so I usually run into the college-educated atheists who can't understand why I'm faithful to my husband and don't drink much. Believe it or not, it's seriously isolating.

Hmmm.

Could be it's just that particular batch of atheists that are like that. The atheists I know tend to drink less than other people -- and have more stable marriages than religious people.

Certainly there are a lot of drinking, divorced episcopalians -- at least in the north

PP's experience couldn't possibly be representative, but yours is? Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey OP, how would you rate your own morals? From your post here you're clearly a bigot with a potty mouth and an anger management problem.

Care to elaborate on why you're such a hateful person yourself?

Care to elaborate on how you feel qualified to bash religion when you clearly know nothing of the subtleties and differences among religious groups?

Do you think you're better than the Christians and possibly others you indiscriminately despise? Tell us why!

Do you think the country would be better if ignorant, bigotted drama queens like you were running it? Tell us why!

Op here. I'll respond to your exasperated diatribe. Essentially in the last two weeks the latest news to come out is that third in charge at the Vatican has been accused of molesting children, and then this happened. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/police-raid-gay-orgy-at-cardinals-vatican-apartment/news-story/54f2b2825bf1f12b523b246b23bed5e4

From my perch as someone spiritual, but not religious, and extremely skeptical of organized religions based on books written by goat herders living in the desert thousands of years ago, it should moreso be you explaining to me why you subscribe to dogmatic, repressive ideologies. I "understand" all about the subtle differences in organized religions, they are not beautiful. A lot of them boil down to men controlling women, guilt and repressing gays.

What's this about goat herders? Are you very ignorant or just maliciously dishonest? Since this thread seems to be pretty much aimed at Christianity, it would be good if you could enlighten us on your understanding of who wrote the books of the Bible. And what do YOU do for a living? Are you a lawyer? Maybe it would interest you to read the Mosaic law in Exodus through Deuteronomy. Are you a doctor? A physician wrote the books of Luke and Acts. Maybe you're a historian -- the history books of the Old Testament are extremely detailed and comprehensive. Or maybe you're even a king of an entire nation like David and have written something of immortal consequence like the Psalms? Or maybe you're given as much respect for your wisdom as another king, Solomon (who like everyone else mentioned heretofore wasn't a goat herder). He wrote Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon, and even unbelievers still quote them. Are you in politics? The book of Daniel was written by a Jewish man in captivity in Babylon who became so well-regarded by the king that he rose in prominence to one of the highest positions of the entire kingdom. The book he wrote accurately described complex geopolitical events hundreds of years before they occurred. Or maybe you're a man of letters and have written poetry like Isaiah or works of persuasion and lament like Jeremiah. Half of the New Testament was written by Paul, an extremely learned, multilingual theologian whose explication of the faith is still the source 2,000 years later for anyone looking to defend or criticize Christian belief. After his conversion, he was a tent-maker, a total blue collar job. Do you think all blue-collar workers are stupid, or just Paul?

And even if you're not a lawyer, a doctor, a historian, a politician or even a king, why do you denigrate goat-herders? Those would be the ancient equivalent of today's farmers. Do you think they're all stupid? I would imagine you'd have to know quite a bit to keep a flock of animals alive, and you can't be stupid and run a farm. Or do you just think that ancient peoples had no intellect? This is demonstrably false and extremely narrow-minded of you. Yes, they didn't have cars and cell phones, but surely you know that technological advancements build upon one another. You don't get geniuses in the present unless you had geniuses in the past. And even so, technology doesn't answer questions such as origin, purpose, meaning. People still wrestle with these things today.

Christians, of course, believe all these men were led by God to write the books of the Bible. That's a matter of faith, but we don't think the LORD chose idiots to do so. Don't believe if you don't want to. But the Bible wasn't written by uneducated simpletons. You'd do your unbelief a lot better if you didn't make such uneducated assertions about the material you hate so much.

[Anonymous]

^^^^ Giving this some more thought, I should have said that if your understanding of the authorship of the Bible is so misinformed as you've presented it to be, perhaps your understanding of the content that you object to is similarly misinformed and your unbelief isn't as well-grounded as you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^^ Giving this some more thought, I should have said that if your understanding of the authorship of the Bible is so misinformed as you've presented it to be, perhaps your understanding of the content that you object to is similarly misinformed and your unbelief isn't as well-grounded as you think it is.

No one knows who the many people were who wrote the Bible, but we do kno there were a lot of goat herders around in those days.