ASFS Boundary Change -- Any insight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the new TJ ES have to stay the same (Patrick Henry/Fleet)? Could ASFS be moved there?

No. The new TJ elementary is for the Henry zone, and some nearby planning units will get pulled in, if there is space - I guess that all depends on the numbers. We will see when all the boundaries are opened up!

You know, that's what they said. But I don't know how that will be possible when they open up all the SA boundaries. I was just looking at the map and if they keep all the current planning units, the new school will be located OUTSIDE of the PU's that are assigned to the school. I think there were some on the SAWG who tried to warn people about this, but I would not be surprised at all if Alcova Heights gets moved into the new building, and everyone south of the Pike and east of Walter Reed gets shifted tot other schools. I think this will result in schools that are more walkable but far less diverse, which is part of the reason putting the ES in that location was not ideal.

The new school will still be *inside* the Henry zone.
Another planning unit that could get pulled in is Ashton Heights.
Ashton Heights will be closer to the new ES than to Long Branch, plus the kids already go to TJ together, too.
It will be a very nice new building, and with much loved teachers, principals and staff in place.
I think a lot of planning units will want to get in... but it will depend on the volume of students in each of the planning units.

Yeah that makes sense. The beautiful new south Arlington school gets used for North Arlington. Sounds about right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly curious what turned you off there? It's not like ATS with a very strict discipline; it's basically a normal school with a lab and habitat? I doubt you went to a PTA meeting or got embroiled in any of the gifted designation controversy (as every school has its drama and you only know it when there). So what did you see on your tour that was a problem?

I can see that, the school is pretty no-nonsense since it must work hard to ensure the diverse student body all succeed -- which they do a very good job at.

A school of all UMC kids definitely will allow a lot more slack in academics since they will have so much enrichment at home (like your kid apparently was in math).

I guess this was a long time ago, if they are already in high school?

You say "slack," I say "developmentally appropriate." And I know that's a luxury, too, but we weren't going to subject our kid to drill and kill just because other kids had to endure that.

Thanks for thinking our home was enriching. It was really just absent of stress (another luxury).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly curious what turned you off there? It's not like ATS with a very strict discipline; it's basically a normal school with a lab and habitat? I doubt you went to a PTA meeting or got embroiled in any of the gifted designation controversy (as every school has its drama and you only know it when there). So what did you see on your tour that was a problem?

I'm probably not going to explain it well, but it seemed so joyless, such a grind. Everything was filtered through science (which makes sense in terms of the name, but not in terms of elementary education), and it made me wonder what reception there was for kids who were more enthusiastic about other topics. The principal was touting how advanced the math was (it wasn't, particularly, at least back then and for my kid), and the expressed focus on quantified academic achievement wasn't what we wanted for our five year old, who was going to do fine academically anyway.

But yeah, the school with the laid-back principal and the crappy G&T person was Super White (TM Benjamin Moore). Luckily MS and HS were less so.

If you had no enrichment how did he know math? Reading I have seen be picked up but math like they do in K (addition, subtraction, graphing) is unlikely to be picked up without instruction of some kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly curious what turned you off there? It's not like ATS with a very strict discipline; it's basically a normal school with a lab and habitat? I doubt you went to a PTA meeting or got embroiled in any of the gifted designation controversy (as every school has its drama and you only know it when there). So what did you see on your tour that was a problem?

I'm probably not going to explain it well, but it seemed so joyless, such a grind. Everything was filtered through science (which makes sense in terms of the name, but not in terms of elementary education), and it made me wonder what reception there was for kids who were more enthusiastic about other topics. The principal was touting how advanced the math was (it wasn't, particularly, at least back then and for my kid), and the expressed focus on quantified academic achievement wasn't what we wanted for our five year old, who was going to do fine academically anyway.

But yeah, the school with the laid-back principal and the crappy G&T person was Super White (TM Benjamin Moore). Luckily MS and HS were less so.

I can see that, the school is pretty no-nonsense since it must work hard to ensure the diverse student body all succeed -- which they do a very good job at.

A school of all UMC kids definitely will allow a lot more slack in academics since they will have so much enrichment at home (like your kid apparently was in math).

I guess this was a long time ago, if they are already in high school?

Sorry to break it to you, but ASFS is far more like Jamestown and Taylor in terms of SES than the majority of the other APS elementary schools. Reality doesn't align with the popular narrative for ASFS. Visit the lab and you'll see. #TrueThat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly curious what turned you off there? It's not like ATS with a very strict discipline; it's basically a normal school with a lab and habitat? I doubt you went to a PTA meeting or got embroiled in any of the gifted designation controversy (as every school has its drama and you only know it when there). So what did you see on your tour that was a problem?

I'm probably not going to explain it well, but it seemed so joyless, such a grind. Everything was filtered through science (which makes sense in terms of the name, but not in terms of elementary education), and it made me wonder what reception there was for kids who were more enthusiastic about other topics. The principal was touting how advanced the math was (it wasn't, particularly, at least back then and for my kid), and the expressed focus on quantified academic achievement wasn't what we wanted for our five year old, who was going to do fine academically anyway.

But yeah, the school with the laid-back principal and the crappy G&T person was Super White (TM Benjamin Moore). Luckily MS and HS were less so.

I can see that, the school is pretty no-nonsense since it must work hard to ensure the diverse student body all succeed -- which they do a very good job at.

A school of all UMC kids definitely will allow a lot more slack in academics since they will have so much enrichment at home (like your kid apparently was in math).

I guess this was a long time ago, if they are already in high school?

Sorry to break it to you, but ASFS is far more like Jamestown and Taylor in terms of SES than the majority of the other APS elementary schools. Reality doesn't align with the popular narrative for ASFS. Visit the lab and you'll see. #TrueThat

Don't let facts get in the way of your attempt to tear down an elementary school. What is wrong with you? It's just a school. You know, trying their best to teach kids. What's with the hate?

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/free-and-reduced-price-meals/

Free & Reduced-Price Meals:
Jamestown 2.20%
Taylor 4.17%
ASFS 20.48%

[Anonymous]

20% is not exactly Title 1 territory, is all.
Some posters make it sound as if it is!

("The diversity! The hardship!" - I'm exaggerating.)

[Anonymous]

If you had no enrichment how did he know math? Reading I have seen be picked up but math like they do in K (addition, subtraction, graphing) is unlikely to be picked up without instruction of some kind.

I think reading and basic math (not including graphing, but including basic algebra or proto-algebra, as in 3 + ? = 5) can be picked up with only the building blocks. Teach average kids the alphabet and read to them and they'll pick out up, teach kids to count and walk them through the counting you do (cooking, shopping,etc) and they'll learn to add, subtract, multiply, and divide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you had no enrichment how did he know math? Reading I have seen be picked up but math like they do in K (addition, subtraction, graphing) is unlikely to be picked up without instruction of some kind.

I think reading and basic math (not including graphing, but including basic algebra or proto-algebra, as in 3 + ? = 5) can be picked up with only the building blocks. Teach average kids the alphabet and read to them and they'll pick out up, teach kids to count and walk them through the counting you do (cooking, shopping,etc) and they'll learn to add, subtract, multiply, and divide.

Agree. We did no particular "enrichment" with DS, just basic counting things and he was playing around with multiplication and number patterns with his goldfish crackers at 4 yrs old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly OT, but can someone explain the origin of the team concept (Taylor, Jamestown, ASFS etc.) that is now being dismantled? What was it supposed to accomplish?

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, when the team was created, APS was not overcrowded. So when ASFS (and Key?) opened, the thought was that students within the four schools' boundaries could attend any of the schools as a way to populate ASFS and Key. Once all the team students were accommodated, any student from anywhere in Arlington could attend ASFS or Key. And it was thought that Key boundary students would also enroll at Taylor or Jamestown if they did not want Spanish immersion. But as it turned out, the Key students who didn't want immersion pretty much all enrolled in ASFS instead, and as ASFS's reputation grew and as the student population increased, it just became much more difficult for a Taylor or Jamestown student to "win" the lottery to attend ASFS. So essentially, the team concept no longer functioned as envisioned.

Thank you! That makes sense. It now just looks like the richest of the rich giving themselves more options/flexibility, so it's good to hear that wasn't the genesis of it.

Np. Choice between Key or ASFS because you can't compel someone to choose immersion. No idea how the others schools got added into the mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you had no enrichment how did he know math? Reading I have seen be picked up but math like they do in K (addition, subtraction, graphing) is unlikely to be picked up without instruction of some kind.

I think reading and basic math (not including graphing, but including basic algebra or proto-algebra, as in 3 + ? = 5) can be picked up with only the building blocks. Teach average kids the alphabet and read to them and they'll pick out up, teach kids to count and walk them through the counting you do (cooking, shopping,etc) and they'll learn to add, subtract, multiply, and divide.

Agree. We did no particular "enrichment" with DS, just basic counting things and he was playing around with multiplication and number patterns with his goldfish crackers at 4 yrs old.

+1 very subtle PP, well done

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly OT, but can someone explain the origin of the team concept (Taylor, Jamestown, ASFS etc.) that is now being dismantled? What was it supposed to accomplish?

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, when the team was created, APS was not overcrowded. So when ASFS (and Key?) opened, the thought was that students within the four schools' boundaries could attend any of the schools as a way to populate ASFS and Key. Once all the team students were accommodated, any student from anywhere in Arlington could attend ASFS or Key. And it was thought that Key boundary students would also enroll at Taylor or Jamestown if they did not want Spanish immersion. But as it turned out, the Key students who didn't want immersion pretty much all enrolled in ASFS instead, and as ASFS's reputation grew and as the student population increased, it just became much more difficult for a Taylor or Jamestown student to "win" the lottery to attend ASFS. So essentially, the team concept no longer functioned as envisioned.

Thank you! That makes sense. It now just looks like the richest of the rich giving themselves more options/flexibility, so it's good to hear that wasn't the genesis of it.

Np. Choice between Key or ASFS because you can't compel someone to choose immersion. No idea how the others schools got added into the mix.

15:19 again. Here is one reason the other schools were added to the mix:

Before ASFS moved into its building roughly 22 years ago, ATS briefly occupied it. But before then, the building housed Page Elementary School for many years and was the ES for Cherrydale, parts of Lyon Village and I don't know what other neighborhoods. I also don't know exactly when or why Page closed as an ES (maybe the 4 school team concept was already in the works?) but as a consequence, all of of the Page boundary lost their neighborhood ES and most were then shifted to Taylor.

Another consequence of Page closing as a neighborhood ES was that Taylor reached capacity and became overcrowded - not by today's APS standards, but nevertheless, it became a concern because it had to absorb many of the former Page boundary students. Meanwhile, Jamestown was also at capacity (obviously this was before Discovery was built). So when the team was created, Taylor and Jamestown were included as a way to help relieve capacity pressures at those two schools.

While it is true that at the time the team was created, Key was given automatic admission to ASFS due to the immersion issue, the school planners thought that many Key boundary families would also choose Taylor or Jamestown if they did not want a science focus either but rather just a "normal" ES. That didn't happen.

So when ASFS's boundaries are redrawn and some Taylor planning units near it are shifted to ASFS, really part of what the SB will be doing is returning those planning units to their former neighborhood elementary school. Kind of like with Stratford becoming a neighborhood middle school again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly OT, but can someone explain the origin of the team concept (Taylor, Jamestown, ASFS etc.) that is now being dismantled? What was it supposed to accomplish?

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, when the team was created, APS was not overcrowded. So when ASFS (and Key?) opened, the thought was that students within the four schools' boundaries could attend any of the schools as a way to populate ASFS and Key. Once all the team students were accommodated, any student from anywhere in Arlington could attend ASFS or Key. And it was thought that Key boundary students would also enroll at Taylor or Jamestown if they did not want Spanish immersion. But as it turned out, the Key students who didn't want immersion pretty much all enrolled in ASFS instead, and as ASFS's reputation grew and as the student population increased, it just became much more difficult for a Taylor or Jamestown student to "win" the lottery to attend ASFS. So essentially, the team concept no longer functioned as envisioned.

Thank you! That makes sense. It now just looks like the richest of the rich giving themselves more options/flexibility, so it's good to hear that wasn't the genesis of it.

Np. Choice between Key or ASFS because you can't compel someone to choose immersion. No idea how the others schools got added into the mix.

15:19 again. Here is one reason the other schools were added to the mix:

Before ASFS moved into its building roughly 22 years ago, ATS briefly occupied it. But before then, the building housed Page Elementary School for many years and was the ES for Cherrydale, parts of Lyon Village and I don't know what other neighborhoods. I also don't know exactly when or why Page closed as an ES (maybe the 4 school team concept was already in the works?) but as a consequence, all of of the Page boundary lost their neighborhood ES and most were then shifted to Taylor.

Another consequence of Page closing as a neighborhood ES was that Taylor reached capacity and became overcrowded - not by today's APS standards, but nevertheless, it became a concern because it had to absorb many of the former Page boundary students. Meanwhile, Jamestown was also at capacity (obviously this was before Discovery was built). So when the team was created, Taylor and Jamestown were included as a way to help relieve capacity pressures at those two schools.

While it is true that at the time the team was created, Key was given automatic admission to ASFS due to the immersion issue, the school planners thought that many Key boundary families would also choose Taylor or Jamestown if they did not want a science focus either but rather just a "normal" ES. That didn't happen.

So when ASFS's boundaries are redrawn and some Taylor planning units near it are shifted to ASFS, really part of what the SB will be doing is returning those planning units to their former neighborhood elementary school. Kind of like with Stratford becoming a neighborhood middle school again.

I'm not defending ASFS, but what is interesting to me is the fact that a similar story could be told about ATS in its current location. There is so much overcrowding at Glebe and McKinley because the ATS location uses a building that is really needed as a neighborhood school. I don't understand why ATS continues to be protected. It seems to me like ATS should be turned back into a neighborhood school too under the School Board's rationale. They have similar FARMS rates-- ASFS (20%) and ATS (21%).

[Anonymous]

ATS should be moved to Randolph or Barcroft. If north Arlington parents really believe in the program, they can drive a little further, to a less privileged neighborhood.
the current ATS campus can turn back to a neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ATS should be moved to Randolph or Barcroft. If north Arlington parents really believe in the program, they can drive a little further, to a less privileged neighborhood.
the current ATS campus can turn back to a neighborhood school.

That makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS should be moved to Randolph or Barcroft. If north Arlington parents really believe in the program, they can drive a little further, to a less privileged neighborhood.
the current ATS campus can turn back to a neighborhood school.

That makes sense.

This would help provide seats where they are needed. In one thread (maybe it was this one), someone commented on how weird McK & Ashlawn's boundaries are. ATS is that reason. If it were converted to neighborhood, it would relieve pressure at McK, Ashlawn, Glebe, Taylor & probably Barrett.