Changes to the HGC for next year (and to middle/high school magnet application in the future)

[Anonymous]

Ask your son what he wants to do. We have one child who didn't want to go and thrived at our home school. Our other child has decided to go and will start this fall. As we explained to the kids, for different reasons, both choices are equally good. We've been very happy with our home school, and I really don't believe that two years of elementary makes a huge difference for a bright and inherently motivated child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

But if you put a whole magnet class at every school..it becomes a pretty low bar. 1/2 the grade in some cases. The high level curriculum would have to change...which is ok I guess except for those outlier kids who lose what they have. I wonder if it will lead to a drastic expansion of (sort of) competitive magnet seats at the MS and HS levels too.

It isn't a whole class. It isn't an all day event. They still have a home room, specials, etc... They get pulled out during reading and math for GT enrichment. That is how most models do it if they don't track kids. Tracking kids is the best way to get full day enrichment but MCPS is too PC to go back to that.

I don't know what the matsunaga model is, but when I was in GT in the '80's, it was a once a week pullout program--it was a couple of kids from each class (class sizes were about 30), so maybe the top 7% or so. I liked it a lot. I went to a regional program for middle and high school but I think that would have been terrible for an ES. I didn't send my daughter to the HGC for those reasons. I'm really struggling with what to do about my son, whose scores are off the charts and is not having a great experience at the home school. I do wish there was something closer to home.

[Anonymous]

Any news on whether they are eliminating the CCES program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ask your son what he wants to do. We have one child who didn't want to go and thrived at our home school. Our other child has decided to go and will start this fall. As we explained to the kids, for different reasons, both choices are equally good. We've been very happy with our home school, and I really don't believe that two years of elementary makes a huge difference for a bright and inherently motivated child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

But if you put a whole magnet class at every school..it becomes a pretty low bar. 1/2 the grade in some cases. The high level curriculum would have to change...which is ok I guess except for those outlier kids who lose what they have. I wonder if it will lead to a drastic expansion of (sort of) competitive magnet seats at the MS and HS levels too.

It isn't a whole class. It isn't an all day event. They still have a home room, specials, etc... They get pulled out during reading and math for GT enrichment. That is how most models do it if they don't track kids. Tracking kids is the best way to get full day enrichment but MCPS is too PC to go back to that.

I don't know what the matsunaga model is, but when I was in GT in the '80's, it was a once a week pullout program--it was a couple of kids from each class (class sizes were about 30), so maybe the top 7% or so. I liked it a lot. I went to a regional program for middle and high school but I think that would have been terrible for an ES. I didn't send my daughter to the HGC for those reasons. I'm really struggling with what to do about my son, whose scores are off the charts and is not having a great experience at the home school. I do wish there was something closer to home.

Thanks, I will, but I also know that odds are 99% that his answer will be "I want to go where Larlo is going to school"--which isn't really a viable way to choose a school for a variety of reasons (among which being that it's not clear that Larlo considers himself, or wants to be, BFF with son).

[Anonymous]

Rachel Carson's principal just sent out an email stating that RCES will be one of four new Elementary Local Centers for Enriched Studies next year. What does that mean since they already selected students for Fox Chapel from RCES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any change on selection transparency? MCPS seems to withhold more information regarding how the decisions were made this year than previous years.

By "selection transparency", do you mean that MCPS should explain their criteria and processes for deciding who gets admitted? If so, then I think that the goal of increasing selection transparency conflicts with the goal of increasing participation of qualified students from poor and/or non-hooked-in families. The more detail MCPS provides about the selection criteria and processes, the more affluent, hooked-in families will figure out ways to game the system.

Everyone of these programs is affluent families gaming the system. That will never end unless the programs end.

This is an ignorant and offensive statement. You would never make such a statement about a child who needs disability or learning difficulties services or a child who needs additional help with English, why do you feel it is alright in this instance to attack an entire group of children. These kids are by and large very intelligent and thirsting to learn and so yes many of them (and their parents) are highly motivated to secure admission to these programs. In addition for many kids it is so important to be with other kids who are like them and who understand and accept their academic inclinations. I know my child would have been miserable in a regular school setting.
I don't think I "gamed" the system but here is what I did do: I went to lots of information meetings, researched the programs, helped my child put his application together and made sure he was rested on the day of the exam. I made sure he did not miss any deadlines. I did not pay for a prep course, or write his essays or anything like that. Most of the parents I know who have seen kids through HGCs,and middle school and high school magnets will tell you something similar. We are indeed mostly solidly middle class and in some cases upper middle class but this is largely by virtue of the fact that most of us have graduate or terminal degrees. This does make it more likely that our children are also predisposed to doing well in school and seek academic challenge. This is the most important reason why you see so many UMC families in the magnet programs.

Yes you did game the system. You just posted an entire paragraph about what you did. Gaming the system is when only certain families are receiving all of the info to make the best decision. That will never happen in this magnet/HCG/Immmersion/IB programs.

In other school districts kids get pulled into GT programs by teachers based on classroom etiquette, scores and in-school recommendations. Parents aren't involved AT ALL. That means a smart kid with a single working mom who can't go to meetings, prep, and take the time to read hours of fluff provided by MCPS will have just as good of a chance as yours. It will also means the girl who is truly ready but models well but passive behavior won't get passed for the annoying always raising her hand kid they just want to see go in another school.

It would also take a million sibling COSA attempts off the board as well as families only looking for a program to get out of their crappy home school.

If all the other local counties have in-house GT programs do can MC. [/quote]
I don't think what the PP posted is "gaming the system". The UMC parents are not the only ones "receiving" all the information, they are the ones making the time to go to the info meetings and who pay attention to the papers that come home from school. I know many single parents with more than one child who somehow make attending the information meetings a priority and who figure out car pools or how to get their kid to and from the bus stop. It is not easy and you do need parental support otherwise it is tough.
I do support having a track in all schools for the top fifth of students but there is no way you could get the critical mass of kids who could handle the Blair SMAC curriculum for instance unless you have a test in magnet that pulls kids from far and wide.
I would partly agree with another post I think you might have made (your abrasive tone is quite distinctive) that it is a little harder to clearly identify the top 3-5% of kids at the HGC level and there are likely lots of kids who would flourish in these programs who might not be identified. That is the purpose of the global screening in second grade which is partly meant to give parents an indication that their child can handle an advanced curriculum. Of course as you point out there are many children who do not apply for many reasons (including kids from UMC families) and if they are not for example placed in the highest Math track by 5th grade, it does make it very difficult for them to qualify for a Math and Science magnet in middle school or high school. I am interested in seeing if the Matsunaga approach yields more qualified applicants for the middle school and high school magnets which would be wonderful.
I also wanted to say that I really hope you are not a school teacher if the sentence I underlined is reflective of your attitude towards children who are excited to be in school and enjoy talking about what they know and think. If you are a school teacher in MCPS I am now doubly grateful that my child was able to qualify for the magnet programs and could be with teachers who appreciated his enthusiasm. There are lots of different kinds of kids in the magnet programs - quiet, noisy, introverted, extroverted but most of them love learning and enjoy being with kids who feel the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went with 7 other kids from our neighborhood ES

It is based on numbers in each school. We were told 6 max (3 girs, 3 boys) in our ES with 100 kids in 4th grade. Schools have between 40-150 kids per 3rd grade. That grade had so many smarter girls too but it didn't matter.

????I'm pretty sure that gender is not considered. My child's HGC class has many more boys than girls and I've heard that in previous years it's been the opposite.

Maybe they changed that. My child is in 8th and we knew how many they were taking prior to even taking the test. 3 boys and 3 girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rachel Carson's principal just sent out an email stating that RCES will be one of four new Elementary Local Centers for Enriched Studies next year. What does that mean since they already selected students for Fox Chapel from RCES?

That is a joke. That school is beyond overcrowded. Where would they go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went with 7 other kids from our neighborhood ES

It is based on numbers in each school. We were told 6 max (3 girs, 3 boys) in our ES with 100 kids in 4th grade. Schools have between 40-150 kids per 3rd grade. That grade had so many smarter girls too but it didn't matter.

????I'm pretty sure that gender is not considered. My child's HGC class has many more boys than girls and I've heard that in previous years it's been the opposite.

Maybe they changed that. My child is in 8th and we knew how many they were taking prior to even taking the test. 3 boys and 3 girls.

No, you didn't know. You guessed. You just happen to have guessed correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went with 7 other kids from our neighborhood ES

It is based on numbers in each school. We were told 6 max (3 girs, 3 boys) in our ES with 100 kids in 4th grade. Schools have between 40-150 kids per 3rd grade. That grade had so many smarter girls too but it didn't matter.

????I'm pretty sure that gender is not considered. My child's HGC class has many more boys than girls and I've heard that in previous years it's been the opposite.

Maybe they changed that. My child is in 8th and we knew how many they were taking prior to even taking the test. 3 boys and 3 girls.

They do not do that. It is illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rachel Carson's principal just sent out an email stating that RCES will be one of four new Elementary Local Centers for Enriched Studies next year. What does that mean since they already selected students for Fox Chapel from RCES?

That is a joke. That school is beyond overcrowded. Where would they go?

If it's a local center, then they aren't adding any additional students to the school. It will just be for existing RCES students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any change on selection transparency? MCPS seems to withhold more information regarding how the decisions were made this year than previous years.

By "selection transparency", do you mean that MCPS should explain their criteria and processes for deciding who gets admitted? If so, then I think that the goal of increasing selection transparency conflicts with the goal of increasing participation of qualified students from poor and/or non-hooked-in families. The more detail MCPS provides about the selection criteria and processes, the more affluent, hooked-in families will figure out ways to game the system.

Everyone of these programs is affluent families gaming the system. That will never end unless the programs end.

This is an ignorant and offensive statement. You would never make such a statement about a child who needs disability or learning difficulties services or a child who needs additional help with English, why do you feel it is alright in this instance to attack an entire group of children. These kids are by and large very intelligent and thirsting to learn and so yes many of them (and their parents) are highly motivated to secure admission to these programs. In addition for many kids it is so important to be with other kids who are like them and who understand and accept their academic inclinations. I know my child would have been miserable in a regular school setting.
I don't think I "gamed" the system but here is what I did do: I went to lots of information meetings, researched the programs, helped my child put his application together and made sure he was rested on the day of the exam. I made sure he did not miss any deadlines. I did not pay for a prep course, or write his essays or anything like that. Most of the parents I know who have seen kids through HGCs,and middle school and high school magnets will tell you something similar. We are indeed mostly solidly middle class and in some cases upper middle class but this is largely by virtue of the fact that most of us have graduate or terminal degrees. This does make it more likely that our children are also predisposed to doing well in school and seek academic challenge. This is the most important reason why you see so many UMC families in the magnet programs.

Yes you did game the system. You just posted an entire paragraph about what you did. Gaming the system is when only certain families are receiving all of the info to make the best decision. That will never happen in this magnet/HCG/Immmersion/IB programs.

In other school districts kids get pulled into GT programs by teachers based on classroom etiquette, scores and in-school recommendations. Parents aren't involved AT ALL. That means a smart kid with a single working mom who can't go to meetings, prep, and take the time to read hours of fluff provided by MCPS will have just as good of a chance as yours. It will also means the girl who is truly ready but models well but passive behavior won't get passed for the annoying always raising her hand kid they just want to see go in another school.

It would also take a million sibling COSA attempts off the board as well as families only looking for a program to get out of their crappy home school.

If all the other local counties have in-house GT programs do can MC.

Check yourself, PP, and your off-the-cuff definitions. You are wrong, and you know it.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know how this works for a kid in private to test for the HCG program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So glad that my kids are not in ES anymore and they have just a few more years of magnet program in MCPS left.

While I like the GT model of Matsanuga, HGC were for students who had academic needs beyond that of GT.

Matsanuga will have a watered down version of HGC and maybe that model should be available to all schools and all students.

I cannot imagine though that all the students at the Matsanuga program should have had a place in a HGC.

You don't know anything about the Matsunaga program, but nonetheless you're against it?

Not against Matsunaga. Have the Matsunaga model in all ES in MCPS. Keep the HGCs as it is. What Matsunaga will have is a GT program, it is not a highly gifted program.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, OP, it sounds like these are positive changes.

For once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any change on selection transparency? MCPS seems to withhold more information regarding how the decisions were made this year than previous years.

By "selection transparency", do you mean that MCPS should explain their criteria and processes for deciding who gets admitted? If so, then I think that the goal of increasing selection transparency conflicts with the goal of increasing participation of qualified students from poor and/or non-hooked-in families. The more detail MCPS provides about the selection criteria and processes, the more affluent, hooked-in families will figure out ways to game the system.

Everyone of these programs is affluent families gaming the system. That will never end unless the programs end.

This is an ignorant and offensive statement. You would never make such a statement about a child who needs disability or learning difficulties services or a child who needs additional help with English, why do you feel it is alright in this instance to attack an entire group of children. These kids are by and large very intelligent and thirsting to learn and so yes many of them (and their parents) are highly motivated to secure admission to these programs. In addition for many kids it is so important to be with other kids who are like them and who understand and accept their academic inclinations. I know my child would have been miserable in a regular school setting.
I don't think I "gamed" the system but here is what I did do: I went to lots of information meetings, researched the programs, helped my child put his application together and made sure he was rested on the day of the exam. I made sure he did not miss any deadlines. I did not pay for a prep course, or write his essays or anything like that. Most of the parents I know who have seen kids through HGCs,and middle school and high school magnets will tell you something similar. We are indeed mostly solidly middle class and in some cases upper middle class but this is largely by virtue of the fact that most of us have graduate or terminal degrees. This does make it more likely that our children are also predisposed to doing well in school and seek academic challenge. This is the most important reason why you see so many UMC families in the magnet programs.

Yes you did game the system. You just posted an entire paragraph about what you did. Gaming the system is when only certain families are receiving all of the info to make the best decision. That will never happen in this magnet/HCG/Immmersion/IB programs.

In other school districts kids get pulled into GT programs by teachers based on classroom etiquette, scores and in-school recommendations. Parents aren't involved AT ALL. That means a smart kid with a single working mom who can't go to meetings, prep, and take the time to read hours of fluff provided by MCPS will have just as good of a chance as yours. It will also means the girl who is truly ready but models well but passive behavior won't get passed for the annoying always raising her hand kid they just want to see go in another school.

It would also take a million sibling COSA attempts off the board as well as families only looking for a program to get out of their crappy home school.

If all the other local counties have in-house GT programs do can MC.

DP here.

Your post and accusations are way off base. You seem to have some sort of strange hostility to parents who want better for their kids. Sounds like you are resentful that your own kids did not get in?

My kids did attend an HGC but EVERYONE in MCPS has access to these programs. The materials are all online so it's not tough for parents to research. The meetings were held in the evenings. And there were several meetings, plus they were planned weeks ahead so not difficult to attend. I even saw parents bring their kids to the meeting, so not an issue if you could not afford a sitter.

There really is not any parental involvement in the selection process. I filled out a basic form saying we were interested and the rest was up to the teachers, and the selection committee.

I have no idea how you would consider attending the informational meeting and filling out the interest form 'gaming the system'. Honestly, the forms needed for Kindergarten entrance are more challenging to fill out. Maybe we should get rid of those due to too much parental variability!