Changes to the HGC for next year (and to middle/high school magnet application in the future)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

Agree. It is also only used to bump up test scores in poor performing schools. Makes MCPS look better than they are.

Poor performing schools like Clearspring ES, Chevy Chase ES, and Cold Spring ES, you mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any change on selection transparency? MCPS seems to withhold more information regarding how the decisions were made this year than previous years.

By "selection transparency", do you mean that MCPS should explain their criteria and processes for deciding who gets admitted? If so, then I think that the goal of increasing selection transparency conflicts with the goal of increasing participation of qualified students from poor and/or non-hooked-in families. The more detail MCPS provides about the selection criteria and processes, the more affluent, hooked-in families will figure out ways to game the system.

Everyone of these programs is affluent families gaming the system. That will never end unless the programs end.

This is an ignorant and offensive statement. You would never make such a statement about a child who needs disability or learning difficulties services or a child who needs additional help with English, why do you feel it is alright in this instance to attack an entire group of children. These kids are by and large very intelligent and thirsting to learn and so yes many of them (and their parents) are highly motivated to secure admission to these programs. In addition for many kids it is so important to be with other kids who are like them and who understand and accept their academic inclinations. I know my child would have been miserable in a regular school setting.
I don't think I "gamed" the system but here is what I did do: I went to lots of information meetings, researched the programs, helped my child put his application together and made sure he was rested on the day of the exam. I made sure he did not miss any deadlines. I did not pay for a prep course, or write his essays or anything like that. Most of the parents I know who have seen kids through HGCs,and middle school and high school magnets will tell you something similar. We are indeed mostly solidly middle class and in some cases upper middle class but this is largely by virtue of the fact that most of us have graduate or terminal degrees. This does make it more likely that our children are also predisposed to doing well in school and seek academic challenge. This is the most important reason why you see so many UMC families in the magnet programs.

Yes you did game the system. You just posted an entire paragraph about what you did. Gaming the system is when only certain families are receiving all of the info to make the best decision. That will never happen in this magnet/HCG/Immmersion/IB programs.

In other school districts kids get pulled into GT programs by teachers based on classroom etiquette, scores and in-school recommendations. Parents aren't involved AT ALL. That means a smart kid with a single working mom who can't go to meetings, prep, and take the time to read hours of fluff provided by MCPS will have just as good of a chance as yours. It will also means the girl who is truly ready but models well but passive behavior won't get passed for the annoying always raising her hand kid they just want to see go in another school.

It would also take a million sibling COSA attempts off the board as well as families only looking for a program to get out of their crappy home school.

If all the other local counties have in-house GT programs do can MC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

Agree. It is also only used to bump up test scores in poor performing schools. Makes MCPS look better than they are.

Poor performing schools like Clearspring ES, Chevy Chase ES, and Cold Spring ES, you mean?

Are you kidding me? Even the rich areas and white farm land have to have their programs somewhere nearby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

But if you put a whole magnet class at every school..it becomes a pretty low bar. 1/2 the grade in some cases. The high level curriculum would have to change...which is ok I guess except for those outlier kids who lose what they have. I wonder if it will lead to a drastic expansion of (sort of) competitive magnet seats at the MS and HS levels too.

It isn't a whole class. It isn't an all day event. They still have a home room, specials, etc... They get pulled out during reading and math for GT enrichment. That is how most models do it if they don't track kids. Tracking kids is the best way to get full day enrichment but MCPS is too PC to go back to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

You are not describing a magnet program. The current program is meant to serve the top 3-5% of students in the county and so you cannot have them in every school. The top 20% of students in the county are not adequately served in elementary school and middle school and more needs to be done at the home schools to address this deficiency but not at the expense of the top 3-5% which is a distinct population.

You mean the 3-5% which actually have families who can go thru the process, apply, accept and do the harsh commutes each day. Which really isn't the top 3-5% of the ACTUAL kids that truly need it, like you said. And since HGC only take a max per school that also diminished the actual top percentage as well.

Stop trying to act like this programs is fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

You are not describing a magnet program. The current program is meant to serve the top 3-5% of students in the county and so you cannot have them in every school. The top 20% of students in the county are not adequately served in elementary school and middle school and more needs to be done at the home schools to address this deficiency but not at the expense of the top 3-5% which is a distinct population.

You mean the 3-5% which actually have families who can go thru the process, apply, accept and do the harsh commutes each day. Which really isn't the top 3-5% of the ACTUAL kids that truly need it, like you said. And since HGC only take a max per school that also diminished the actual top percentage as well.

Stop trying to act like this programs is fair.

I don't think that they do this, actually (based on two rounds of observation as a parent).

[Anonymous]

My child went with 7 other kids from our neighborhood ES

[Anonymous]

I like the new plan for selecting students for the same reason I like class projects to be done at school instead of at home. Otherwise, you really have no way of knowing what is the student's work and what is the parent's work. Teachers know, and they should be the ones selecting the students for HGC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather they move to the Matsunaga model throughout the whole county and get rid of the regional centers. The transportation and before/after care issues still pose a barrier to some families who will not choose to attend a regional center as a result. The transportation cost is high. It is socially awkward for the kids. It adds competitive pressure on kids to apply for MS Magnets. I could go on with the down sides of the regional centers.

But if you put a whole magnet class at every school..it becomes a pretty low bar. 1/2 the grade in some cases. The high level curriculum would have to change...which is ok I guess except for those outlier kids who lose what they have. I wonder if it will lead to a drastic expansion of (sort of) competitive magnet seats at the MS and HS levels too.

It isn't a whole class. It isn't an all day event. They still have a home room, specials, etc... They get pulled out during reading and math for GT enrichment. That is how most models do it if they don't track kids. Tracking kids is the best way to get full day enrichment but MCPS is too PC to go back to that.

I don't know what the matsunaga model is, but when I was in GT in the '80's, it was a once a week pullout program--it was a couple of kids from each class (class sizes were about 30), so maybe the top 7% or so. I liked it a lot. I went to a regional program for middle and high school but I think that would have been terrible for an ES. I didn't send my daughter to the HGC for those reasons. I'm really struggling with what to do about my son, whose scores are off the charts and is not having a great experience at the home school. I do wish there was something closer to home.

[Anonymous]

So glad that my kids are not in ES anymore and they have just a few more years of magnet program in MCPS left.

While I like the GT model of Matsanuga, HGC were for students who had academic needs beyond that of GT.

Matsanuga will have a watered down version of HGC and maybe that model should be available to all schools and all students.

I cannot imagine though that all the students at the Matsanuga program should have had a place in a HGC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So glad that my kids are not in ES anymore and they have just a few more years of magnet program in MCPS left.

While I like the GT model of Matsanuga, HGC were for students who had academic needs beyond that of GT.

Matsanuga will have a watered down version of HGC and maybe that model should be available to all schools and all students.

I cannot imagine though that all the students at the Matsanuga program should have had a place in a HGC.

You don't know anything about the Matsunaga program, but nonetheless you're against it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child went with 7 other kids from our neighborhood ES

It is based on numbers in each school. We were told 6 max (3 girs, 3 boys) in our ES with 100 kids in 4th grade. Schools have between 40-150 kids per 3rd grade. That grade had so many smarter girls too but it didn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went with 7 other kids from our neighborhood ES

It is based on numbers in each school. We were told 6 max (3 girs, 3 boys) in our ES with 100 kids in 4th grade. Schools have between 40-150 kids per 3rd grade. That grade had so many smarter girls too but it didn't matter.

????I'm pretty sure that gender is not considered. My child's HGC class has many more boys than girls and I've heard that in previous years it's been the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any change on selection transparency? MCPS seems to withhold more information regarding how the decisions were made this year than previous years.

By "selection transparency", do you mean that MCPS should explain their criteria and processes for deciding who gets admitted? If so, then I think that the goal of increasing selection transparency conflicts with the goal of increasing participation of qualified students from poor and/or non-hooked-in families. The more detail MCPS provides about the selection criteria and processes, the more affluent, hooked-in families will figure out ways to game the system.

Everyone of these programs is affluent families gaming the system. That will never end unless the programs end.

This is an ignorant and offensive statement. You would never make such a statement about a child who needs disability or learning difficulties services or a child who needs additional help with English, why do you feel it is alright in this instance to attack an entire group of children. These kids are by and large very intelligent and thirsting to learn and so yes many of them (and their parents) are highly motivated to secure admission to these programs. In addition for many kids it is so important to be with other kids who are like them and who understand and accept their academic inclinations. I know my child would have been miserable in a regular school setting.
I don't think I "gamed" the system but here is what I did do: I went to lots of information meetings, researched the programs, helped my child put his application together and made sure he was rested on the day of the exam. I made sure he did not miss any deadlines. I did not pay for a prep course, or write his essays or anything like that. Most of the parents I know who have seen kids through HGCs,and middle school and high school magnets will tell you something similar. We are indeed mostly solidly middle class and in some cases upper middle class but this is largely by virtue of the fact that most of us have graduate or terminal degrees. This does make it more likely that our children are also predisposed to doing well in school and seek academic challenge. This is the most important reason why you see so many UMC families in the magnet programs.

Yes you did game the system. You just posted an entire paragraph about what you did. Gaming the system is when only certain families are receiving all of the info to make the best decision. That will never happen in this magnet/HCG/Immmersion/IB programs.

In other school districts kids get pulled into GT programs by teachers based on classroom etiquette, scores and in-school recommendations. Parents aren't involved AT ALL. That means a smart kid with a single working mom who can't go to meetings, prep, and take the time to read hours of fluff provided by MCPS will have just as good of a chance as yours. It will also means the girl who is truly ready but models well but passive behavior won't get passed for the annoying always raising her hand kid they just want to see go in another school.

It would also take a million sibling COSA attempts off the board as well as families only looking for a program to get out of their crappy home school.

If all the other local counties have in-house GT programs do can MC.

I'm sorry to break you the truth: that even a student is placed in a GT classroom, he/she will still need support from his/her family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yay for 2 way immersion! It values what non-English speakers can bring to schools! We should view these kids as a tremendous resource, not a burden as non-english speakers are often viewed!

If they cost more money, they are a burden. No other country gives free lessons like the US does. You just immerse and get grades or you learn the language before starting school there.

It's interesting that you can only conceive of non-english speakers as people who suck from the system.

I conceive of them as kids who have something really valuable to offer the system -- their fluency in their native language. How great it would be to have my kid in a class of 30 kids, half of whom are native English speakers and half of whom are native Spanish speakers. All of them will be taught English and Spanish explicitly and spend 1/2 their class time speaking each language. They will grow up fluent in 2 languages -- what a huge benefit in today's world!

Will this "cost more"? Well, I'd be willing to bet that it will cost less to educate an non-English speaking student in a bilingual classroom, than it does to send them off to special ESOL-only programs where they don't learn English very well because they are segregated and they are falling behind in their grade because they are pulled away from regular instruction.

If you can create different immersion entry points at different grades, you can probably create a lot of opportunities for both Spanish and English speaking students.