This Virginia high school led the nation with six perfect AP test scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You did an excellent job of explaining some of the outreach programs of FCPS and TJ to increase blacks and Hispanics at TJ.

What is ironic is that almost all of the black students are actually relatively recent immigrants from African countries and Caribbean countries NOT black students of families who have lived in the US for decades or longer who should benefit from these programs. Same for the affirmative action programs of the top colleges: most of the students are immigrants from Africa/Caribbean nations (and the rest are black students from high HHI with professional parents) not lower SES blacks who should actually benefit from these programs.

I find it ironic that everyone seems to think that they know what AA students need without asking the AA students and parents what they want from the education system.

AA are not using these programs in the numbers that WE think that they should. I feel that those who want to use these programs will do so. However, we need to stop defining success, goals and aspirations of AA without their input.

There are many students and parents of all races who do not want to go to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You did an excellent job of explaining some of the outreach programs of FCPS and TJ to increase blacks and Hispanics at TJ.

What is ironic is that almost all of the black students are actually relatively recent immigrants from African countries and Caribbean countries NOT black students of families who have lived in the US for decades or longer who should benefit from these programs. Same for the affirmative action programs of the top colleges: most of the students are immigrants from Africa/Caribbean nations (and the rest are black students from high HHI with professional parents) not lower SES blacks who should actually benefit from these programs.

I find it ironic that everyone seems to think that they know what AA students need without asking the AA students and parents what they want from the education system.

AA are not using these programs in the numbers that WE think that they should. I feel that those who want to use these programs will do so. However, we need to stop defining success, goals and aspirations of AA without their input.

There are many students and parents of all races who do not want to go to TJ.

True. Even the application rates for whites has been declining. Really, to go there you need to have a strong interest in STEM and get high test scores and want to go to school with highly motivated Asians. That's just how it is. Many just say ... naw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it ironic that everyone seems to think that they know what AA students need without asking the AA students and parents what they want from the education system.

AA are not using these programs in the numbers that WE think that they should. I feel that those who want to use these programs will do so. However, we need to stop defining success, goals and aspirations of AA without their input.

There are many students and parents of all races who do not want to go to TJ.

Well, since 14% of the applicants are black/Hispanic, it certainly seems there is lots of interest. But despite claimed efforts at outreach, only 4% of the admitted group is black/Hispanic. Those percentages haven't really changed for many years. Significant numbers of black/Hispanic students are motivated enough to go through the application process, but for some reason they are not being admitted. There is clearly some sort of failing here. Is TJ testing structured to disadvantage black/Hispanic applicants? Is the elementary/middle school program failing to provide those motivated black/Hispanic students the tools needed to be admitted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it ironic that everyone seems to think that they know what AA students need without asking the AA students and parents what they want from the education system.

AA are not using these programs in the numbers that WE think that they should. I feel that those who want to use these programs will do so. However, we need to stop defining success, goals and aspirations of AA without their input.

There are many students and parents of all races who do not want to go to TJ.

Well, since 14% of the applicants are black/Hispanic, it certainly seems there is lots of interest. But despite claimed efforts at outreach, only 4% of the admitted group is black/Hispanic. Those percentages haven't really changed for many years. Significant numbers of black/Hispanic students are motivated enough to go through the application process, but for some reason they are not being admitted. There is clearly some sort of failing here. Is TJ testing structured to disadvantage black/Hispanic applicants? Is the elementary/middle school program failing to provide those motivated black/Hispanic students the tools needed to be admitted?

The reason is the selection process is primarily based on merit (no affirmative action) although blacks/Hispanics receive some preference through the "holistic" admission process and essays and recommendations.

[Anonymous]

With declining enrollment, perhaps people finally realized STEM careers are increasingly outsourced @50 cents on the dollar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it ironic that everyone seems to think that they know what AA students need without asking the AA students and parents what they want from the education system.

AA are not using these programs in the numbers that WE think that they should. I feel that those who want to use these programs will do so. However, we need to stop defining success, goals and aspirations of AA without their input.

There are many students and parents of all races who do not want to go to TJ.

Well, since 14% of the applicants are black/Hispanic, it certainly seems there is lots of interest. But despite claimed efforts at outreach, only 4% of the admitted group is black/Hispanic. Those percentages haven't really changed for many years. Significant numbers of black/Hispanic students are motivated enough to go through the application process, but for some reason they are not being admitted. There is clearly some sort of failing here. Is TJ testing structured to disadvantage black/Hispanic applicants? Is the elementary/middle school program failing to provide those motivated black/Hispanic students the tools needed to be admitted?

The reason is the selection process is primarily based on merit (no affirmative action) although blacks/Hispanics receive some preference through the "holistic" admission process and essays and recommendations.

That's not answering the question; it's just restating the problem in a way that blames the students themselves (or are you blaming their race?). Why are they being admitted in numbers far below their application rate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it ironic that everyone seems to think that they know what AA students need without asking the AA students and parents what they want from the education system.

AA are not using these programs in the numbers that WE think that they should. I feel that those who want to use these programs will do so. However, we need to stop defining success, goals and aspirations of AA without their input.

There are many students and parents of all races who do not want to go to TJ.

Well, since 14% of the applicants are black/Hispanic, it certainly seems there is lots of interest. But despite claimed efforts at outreach, only 4% of the admitted group is black/Hispanic. Those percentages haven't really changed for many years. Significant numbers of black/Hispanic students are motivated enough to go through the application process, but for some reason they are not being admitted. There is clearly some sort of failing here. Is TJ testing structured to disadvantage black/Hispanic applicants? Is the elementary/middle school program failing to provide those motivated black/Hispanic students the tools needed to be admitted?

The reason is the selection process is primarily based on merit (no affirmative action) although blacks/Hispanics receive some preference through the "holistic" admission process and essays and recommendations.

That's not answering the question; it's just restating the problem in a way that blames the students themselves (or are you blaming their race?). Why are they being admitted in numbers far below their application rate?

Because they have poor grades, poor scores, poor essays and poor recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it ironic that everyone seems to think that they know what AA students need without asking the AA students and parents what they want from the education system.

AA are not using these programs in the numbers that WE think that they should. I feel that those who want to use these programs will do so. However, we need to stop defining success, goals and aspirations of AA without their input.

There are many students and parents of all races who do not want to go to TJ.

Well, since 14% of the applicants are black/Hispanic, it certainly seems there is lots of interest. But despite claimed efforts at outreach, only 4% of the admitted group is black/Hispanic. Those percentages haven't really changed for many years. Significant numbers of black/Hispanic students are motivated enough to go through the application process, but for some reason they are not being admitted. There is clearly some sort of failing here. Is TJ testing structured to disadvantage black/Hispanic applicants? Is the elementary/middle school program failing to provide those motivated black/Hispanic students the tools needed to be admitted?

The reason is the selection process is primarily based on merit (no affirmative action) although blacks/Hispanics receive some preference through the "holistic" admission process and essays and recommendations.

That's not answering the question; it's just restating the problem in a way that blames the students themselves (or are you blaming their race?). Why are they being admitted in numbers far below their application rate?

One would presume that the reason applicants are not selected for admission is because the qualifications reflected on their applications were not sufficient/competitive. Surely no one thinks simply submitting an application to a selective program does or should guarantee admittance? It only makes sense that more people apply than are admitted, so I fail to see why it's alarming that more people of a certain demographic group apply than there are admitted students of that same group.

~NP

[Anonymous]

I think it's interesting that there is a large high school for STEM in the county, but not other types of high schools for talents in other areas (like the Duke Ellington School for the Arts in DC). Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Apparently Richard Spencer has found this thread and thinks he is being witty with his responses. Non-answers all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Apparently Richard Spencer has found this thread and thinks he is being witty with his responses. Non-answers all.

Nobody is being funny. Why are AA and Hispanic kids admitted in such low numbers? Because the AA and Hispanic kids who apply don't have the credentials. And throwing a kid who isn't prepared into TJ isn't doing them any favors.

Now, why don't they have the credentials? In FCPS, my strong guess is SES. AA and Hispanic students in FCPS tend to be lower SES than white and Asian kids. And do you know who has even weaker representation numbers than AA or Hispanic kids? FARMS kids. FCPS is 28% FARMs and TJ is less than 1% FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently Richard Spencer has found this thread and thinks he is being witty with his responses. Non-answers all.

Nobody is being funny. Why are AA and Hispanic kids admitted in such low numbers? Because the AA and Hispanic kids who apply don't have the credentials. And throwing a kid who isn't prepared into TJ isn't doing them any favors.

Now, why don't they have the credentials? In FCPS, my strong guess is SES. AA and Hispanic students in FCPS tend to be lower SES than white and Asian kids. And do you know who has even weaker representation numbers than AA or Hispanic kids? FARMS kids. FCPS is 28% FARMs and TJ is less than 1% FARMS.

Or just possibly the metric being used has a cultural bias that most often favors others groups... Groups who benefit from this love to claim otherwise, but keep telling yourself it's merit if it helps you sleep at night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently Richard Spencer has found this thread and thinks he is being witty with his responses. Non-answers all.

Nobody is being funny. Why are AA and Hispanic kids admitted in such low numbers? Because the AA and Hispanic kids who apply don't have the credentials. And throwing a kid who isn't prepared into TJ isn't doing them any favors.

Now, why don't they have the credentials? In FCPS, my strong guess is SES. AA and Hispanic students in FCPS tend to be lower SES than white and Asian kids. And do you know who has even weaker representation numbers than AA or Hispanic kids? FARMS kids. FCPS is 28% FARMs and TJ is less than 1% FARMS.

Or just possibly the metric being used has a cultural bias that most often favors others groups... Groups who benefit from this love to claim otherwise, but keep telling yourself it's merit if it helps you sleep at night.

Cultural bias would work against Asian applicants and in favor of black/Hispanic applicants for the following reasons:

1. Heavy weight given to SIS short essays and Long essay,
2. Easy math portion which does not distinguish top performers and only requires 30/50,
3. Emphasis on how the applicants present and answer the prompts as supposed to what the applicants actually engaged in or accomplished in the STEM area,
4. Heavy weight given to LOR,
5. Totally subjective holistic admission decision to select the final 480 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently Richard Spencer has found this thread and thinks he is being witty with his responses. Non-answers all.

Nobody is being funny. Why are AA and Hispanic kids admitted in such low numbers? Because the AA and Hispanic kids who apply don't have the credentials. And throwing a kid who isn't prepared into TJ isn't doing them any favors.

Now, why don't they have the credentials? In FCPS, my strong guess is SES. AA and Hispanic students in FCPS tend to be lower SES than white and Asian kids. And do you know who has even weaker representation numbers than AA or Hispanic kids? FARMS kids. FCPS is 28% FARMs and TJ is less than 1% FARMS.

Or just possibly the metric being used has a cultural bias that most often favors others groups... Groups who benefit from this love to claim otherwise, but keep telling yourself it's merit if it helps you sleep at night.

Cultural bias would work against Asian applicants and in favor of black/Hispanic applicants for the following reasons:

1. Heavy weight given to SIS short essays and Long essay,
2. Easy math portion which does not distinguish top performers and only requires 30/50,
3. Emphasis on how the applicants present and answer the prompts as supposed to what the applicants actually engaged in or accomplished in the STEM area,
4. Heavy weight given to LOR,
5. Totally subjective holistic admission decision to select the final 480 students.

Those things are all good and well, but looking at the actual outcomes, it's clear they are insufficient and require further iteration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently Richard Spencer has found this thread and thinks he is being witty with his responses. Non-answers all.

Nobody is being funny. Why are AA and Hispanic kids admitted in such low numbers? Because the AA and Hispanic kids who apply don't have the credentials. And throwing a kid who isn't prepared into TJ isn't doing them any favors.

Now, why don't they have the credentials? In FCPS, my strong guess is SES. AA and Hispanic students in FCPS tend to be lower SES than white and Asian kids. And do you know who has even weaker representation numbers than AA or Hispanic kids? FARMS kids. FCPS is 28% FARMs and TJ is less than 1% FARMS.

Or just possibly the metric being used has a cultural bias that most often favors others groups... Groups who benefit from this love to claim otherwise, but keep telling yourself it's merit if it helps you sleep at night.

Cultural bias would work against Asian applicants and in favor of black/Hispanic applicants for the following reasons:

1. Heavy weight given to SIS short essays and Long essay,
2. Easy math portion which does not distinguish top performers and only requires 30/50,
3. Emphasis on how the applicants present and answer the prompts as supposed to what the applicants actually engaged in or accomplished in the STEM area,
4. Heavy weight given to LOR,
5. Totally subjective holistic admission decision to select the final 480 students.

Those things are all good and well, but looking at the actual outcomes, it's clear they are insufficient and require further iteration.

Perhaps the applicants (those not selected) are insufficient and require further iteration.