This Virginia high school led the nation with six perfect AP test scores

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So how does TJ's Hispanic and black student populations compare to that of Fairfax county?

What difference does that make? To get in you have to apply.

One could argue that the test has a racial bias and the effect is the exclusion of some groups.

what percent of blacks and Hispanics even bother to apply to take the test though?

Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So how does TJ's Hispanic and black student populations compare to that of Fairfax county?

What difference does that make? To get in you have to apply.

One could argue that the test has a racial bias and the effect is the exclusion of some groups.

what percent of blacks and Hispanics even bother to apply to take the test though?

Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?


^ That's very interesting, and thank-you. 29% of the applicants were white, but only 20% of those admitted were white.
In fact every group is underrepresented except Asians.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So how does TJ's Hispanic and black student populations compare to that of Fairfax county?

What difference does that make? To get in you have to apply.

One could argue that the test has a racial bias and the effect is the exclusion of some groups.

what percent of blacks and Hispanics even bother to apply to take the test though?

Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Exactly! And we know why.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So how does TJ's Hispanic and black student populations compare to that of Fairfax county?

What difference does that make? To get in you have to apply.

One could argue that the test has a racial bias and the effect is the exclusion of some groups.

what percent of blacks and Hispanics even bother to apply to take the test though?

Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Damn!
Only 1.6% of Black and 2.4% of Hispanic!!??
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Damn!
Only 1.6% of Black and 2.4% of Hispanic!!??

The percentage actually attending is even lower. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0 Not to mention the free-and-reduced-lunches percentage of only 2%.

TJ does some things great, but let's face it: It's really just a glorified private school paid for by public tax dollars.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Damn!
Only 1.6% of Black and 2.4% of Hispanic!!??

The percentage actually attending is even lower. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0 Not to mention the free-and-reduced-lunches percentage of only 2%.

TJ does some things great, but let's face it: It's really just a glorified private school paid for by public tax dollars.


Except the selection is based solely on merit and, legacy, donations and connections do not play any role! Why is non-merit based selection for schools is ok when it is not for other areas?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Damn!
Only 1.6% of Black and 2.4% of Hispanic!!??

The percentage actually attending is even lower. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0 Not to mention the free-and-reduced-lunches percentage of only 2%.

TJ does some things great, but let's face it: It's really just a glorified private school paid for by public tax dollars.

Except the selection is based solely on merit and, legacy, donations and connections do not play any role! Why is non-merit based selection for schools is ok when it is not for other areas?

Well, if they're private schools, paid for by private funds, then they can use whatever criteria they want for selecting students, right?

But if it's a public school like TJ, using public tax dollars, then it seems it should at least potentially be available to everyone. And while anyone can take the admissions test, it seems pretty apparent from the numbers that one of TJ's goals is to allow parents to avoid black and Hispanic students.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Damn!
Only 1.6% of Black and 2.4% of Hispanic!!??

The percentage actually attending is even lower. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0 Not to mention the free-and-reduced-lunches percentage of only 2%.

TJ does some things great, but let's face it: It's really just a glorified private school paid for by public tax dollars.

Except the selection is based solely on merit and, legacy, donations and connections do not play any role! Why is non-merit based selection for schools is ok when it is not for other areas?

Well, if they're private schools, paid for by private funds, then they can use whatever criteria they want for selecting students, right?

But if it's a public school like TJ, using public tax dollars, then it seems it should at least potentially be available to everyone. And while anyone can take the admissions test, it seems pretty apparent from the numbers that one of TJ's goals is to allow parents to avoid black and Hispanic students.


FCPS bends over backwards to promote blacks and Hispanics to apply and be admitted to TJ with special programs such as Young Scholars, outreach programs etc. Previous TJ Admissions Director was black and they have a black outreach officer in the admissions office. FCPS/TJ's goal regarding blacks/Hispanics is actually opposite of what the PP states.

Furthermore, FCPS seeks to reduce Asian Americans by changing admissions criteria on several occasions, heavily weighing essays, keeping math portion of the admissions test relatively easy, applying "holistic" admissions process for the finalists that is not transparent and totally subjective etc.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Damn!
Only 1.6% of Black and 2.4% of Hispanic!!??

The percentage actually attending is even lower. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0 Not to mention the free-and-reduced-lunches percentage of only 2%.

TJ does some things great, but let's face it: It's really just a glorified private school paid for by public tax dollars.

Except the selection is based solely on merit and, legacy, donations and connections do not play any role! Why is non-merit based selection for schools is ok when it is not for other areas?

Well, if they're private schools, paid for by private funds, then they can use whatever criteria they want for selecting students, right?

But if it's a public school like TJ, using public tax dollars, then it seems it should at least potentially be available to everyone. And while anyone can take the admissions test, it seems pretty apparent from the numbers that one of TJ's goals is to allow parents to avoid black and Hispanic students.


FCPS bends over backwards to promote blacks and Hispanics to apply and be admitted to TJ with special programs such as Young Scholars, outreach programs etc. Previous TJ Admissions Director was black and they have a black outreach officer in the admissions office. FCPS/TJ's goal regarding blacks/Hispanics is actually opposite of what the PP states.

Furthermore, FCPS seeks to reduce Asian Americans by changing admissions criteria on several occasions, heavily weighing essays, keeping math portion of the admissions test relatively easy, applying "holistic" admissions process for the finalists that is not transparent and totally subjective etc.


The data strongly suggests otherwise.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So how does TJ's Hispanic and black student populations compare to that of Fairfax county?

What difference does that make? To get in you have to apply.

One could argue that the test has a racial bias and the effect is the exclusion of some groups.

what percent of blacks and Hispanics even bother to apply to take the test though?

Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Exactly! And we know why.


Good point!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's that data for you from the most recent admissions year available - http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf
Black and Hispanic students made up 14.4% of the applications, but only 4% of the students admitted.

Why is OP pushing an article from six months ago anyway? Feeling insecure and needed to find something to brag about?

Damn!
Only 1.6% of Black and 2.4% of Hispanic!!??

The percentage actually attending is even lower. http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0 Not to mention the free-and-reduced-lunches percentage of only 2%.

TJ does some things great, but let's face it: It's really just a glorified private school paid for by public tax dollars.

Except the selection is based solely on merit and, legacy, donations and connections do not play any role! Why is non-merit based selection for schools is ok when it is not for other areas?

Well, if they're private schools, paid for by private funds, then they can use whatever criteria they want for selecting students, right?

But if it's a public school like TJ, using public tax dollars, then it seems it should at least potentially be available to everyone. And while anyone can take the admissions test, it seems pretty apparent from the numbers that one of TJ's goals is to allow parents to avoid black and Hispanic students.


FCPS bends over backwards to promote blacks and Hispanics to apply and be admitted to TJ with special programs such as Young Scholars, outreach programs etc. Previous TJ Admissions Director was black and they have a black outreach officer in the admissions office. FCPS/TJ's goal regarding blacks/Hispanics is actually opposite of what the PP states.

Furthermore, FCPS seeks to reduce Asian Americans by changing admissions criteria on several occasions, heavily weighing essays, keeping math portion of the admissions test relatively easy, applying "holistic" admissions process for the finalists that is not transparent and totally subjective etc.


The data strongly suggests otherwise.


The facts strongly disputes your assertion.
Anonymous
But if it's a public school like TJ, using public tax dollars, then it seems it should at least potentially be available to everyone. And while anyone can take the admissions test, it seems pretty apparent from the numbers that one of TJ's goals is to allow parents to avoid black and Hispanic students.


FCPS bends over backwards to promote blacks and Hispanics to apply and be admitted to TJ with special programs such as Young Scholars, outreach programs etc. Previous TJ Admissions Director was black and they have a black outreach officer in the admissions office. FCPS/TJ's goal regarding blacks/Hispanics is actually opposite of what the PP states.

Furthermore, FCPS seeks to reduce Asian Americans by changing admissions criteria on several occasions, heavily weighing essays, keeping math portion of the admissions test relatively easy, applying "holistic" admissions process for the finalists that is not transparent and totally subjective etc.


Well, whatever FCPS and TJ are doing to promote black/Hispanic applications doesn't seem to be working.

2003-04
Black/Hispanic students make up 11% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 4.7% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2004.html

2004-05
Black/Hispanic students make up 14% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 6.3% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2005.html

[fast forward 10 years]

2013-14
Black/Hispanic students make up 13.5% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 3.7% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0414.pdf

2014-15
Black/Hispanic students make up 14.4% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 4% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf

Seems like FCPS and TJ are stuck in neutral at best, and perhaps going in reverse. Maybe they should create a class at TJ where all those smart kids and teachers can try to solve this problem. It might be more valuable a contribution to society than yet another robot that shoots tennis balls.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
But if it's a public school like TJ, using public tax dollars, then it seems it should at least potentially be available to everyone. And while anyone can take the admissions test, it seems pretty apparent from the numbers that one of TJ's goals is to allow parents to avoid black and Hispanic students.


FCPS bends over backwards to promote blacks and Hispanics to apply and be admitted to TJ with special programs such as Young Scholars, outreach programs etc. Previous TJ Admissions Director was black and they have a black outreach officer in the admissions office. FCPS/TJ's goal regarding blacks/Hispanics is actually opposite of what the PP states.

Furthermore, FCPS seeks to reduce Asian Americans by changing admissions criteria on several occasions, heavily weighing essays, keeping math portion of the admissions test relatively easy, applying "holistic" admissions process for the finalists that is not transparent and totally subjective etc.


Well, whatever FCPS and TJ are doing to promote black/Hispanic applications doesn't seem to be working.

2003-04
Black/Hispanic students make up 11% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 4.7% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2004.html

2004-05
Black/Hispanic students make up 14% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 6.3% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2005.html

[fast forward 10 years]

2013-14
Black/Hispanic students make up 13.5% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 3.7% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0414.pdf

2014-15
Black/Hispanic students make up 14.4% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 4% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf

Seems like FCPS and TJ are stuck in neutral at best, and perhaps going in reverse. Maybe they should create a class at TJ where all those smart kids and teachers can try to solve this problem. It might be more valuable a contribution to society than yet another robot that shoots tennis balls.


TJ is trying-- hard. The problems are two fold. One, that AAP, which is the primary TJ feeder, is very underrepresented in terms of blacks and Hispanics. And that black and Hispanic SES In the DMV is often lower that white and Asian. So kids who are black and Hispanic and apply are often less prepared, both by FCPS (they aren't in AAP or they are, but live in areas where the AAP programs are not as strong) and because their families may not have money to throw at STEM extras, like STEM summer camps and after school programs.

But, the TJ community wants more diversity. And they are pushing. There is a ton of outreach, especially in current TJ students. Here are a few of the programs:

https://www.tjhsst.edu/~emglazer/stembassadors/index-2.html (And STEMbassadors is huge at TJ)

https://www.tjhsst.edu/research-academics/summer-school/index.html (TJ Summer Institute for MS-- and BTW, registration opens Monday)

http://techstravaganza.org/ (techstravaganza)

http://tjhsstbsu.wixsite.com/tjhsstbsu/outreach (TJ Inspire mentoring by the Black Student Union)

http://blog.jkcf.org/welcome-to-the-jack-kent-cooke-foundation-blog/one-selective-high-school-lifts-students-up-with-enrichment-program (The LIFT program, which provides mentoring, TJ test prep and funds kids who want to attend the TJ Summer Institute)

Check some of these programs out. TJ kids, teachers, admin and parents are very involved in minority outreach. The problem is NOT that TJ does not want more non-white, non-Asian kids. It is also NOT that they are apathetic about these and not trying. But, their efforts still don't seems to be increasing the yield, because for whatever reason (not in AAP, not doing the outof school STEM extras, etc) they can't seem to find well qualified kids. For example-- I can't find the numbers now, but blacks and Hispanics disproportionately do not make it to the semifinalist round. Yes-8% of the applicant pool was black. But many did not advance to the semfinalist round. So the semifinalist pool was much, much less than than 8% black.

Yes, TJ needs more minorities. But this may not be a problem that TJ can solve. You have to look at the 9 years in FCPS leading up to TJ, and make sure minority kids get the same advantages and breaks there. Then, maybe, they will be able to compete for admission on equal footing. If a kid doesn't have a strong background, you do them no favors by admitting them, because they will probably not succeed. So-- start in K and make sure they get the background.



Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
But if it's a public school like TJ, using public tax dollars, then it seems it should at least potentially be available to everyone. And while anyone can take the admissions test, it seems pretty apparent from the numbers that one of TJ's goals is to allow parents to avoid black and Hispanic students.


FCPS bends over backwards to promote blacks and Hispanics to apply and be admitted to TJ with special programs such as Young Scholars, outreach programs etc. Previous TJ Admissions Director was black and they have a black outreach officer in the admissions office. FCPS/TJ's goal regarding blacks/Hispanics is actually opposite of what the PP states.

Furthermore, FCPS seeks to reduce Asian Americans by changing admissions criteria on several occasions, heavily weighing essays, keeping math portion of the admissions test relatively easy, applying "holistic" admissions process for the finalists that is not transparent and totally subjective etc.


Well, whatever FCPS and TJ are doing to promote black/Hispanic applications doesn't seem to be working.

2003-04
Black/Hispanic students make up 11% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 4.7% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2004.html

2004-05
Black/Hispanic students make up 14% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 6.3% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2005.html

[fast forward 10 years]

2013-14
Black/Hispanic students make up 13.5% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 3.7% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0414.pdf

2014-15
Black/Hispanic students make up 14.4% of applicants
Black/Hispanic students make up 4% of admittees
http://www.fcag.org/documents/tjadmissions0415.pdf

Seems like FCPS and TJ are stuck in neutral at best, and perhaps going in reverse. Maybe they should create a class at TJ where all those smart kids and teachers can try to solve this problem. It might be more valuable a contribution to society than yet another robot that shoots tennis balls.


TJ is trying-- hard. The problems are two fold. One, that AAP, which is the primary TJ feeder, is very underrepresented in terms of blacks and Hispanics. And that black and Hispanic SES In the DMV is often lower that white and Asian. So kids who are black and Hispanic and apply are often less prepared, both by FCPS (they aren't in AAP or they are, but live in areas where the AAP programs are not as strong) and because their families may not have money to throw at STEM extras, like STEM summer camps and after school programs.

But, the TJ community wants more diversity. And they are pushing. There is a ton of outreach, especially in current TJ students. Here are a few of the programs:

https://www.tjhsst.edu/~emglazer/stembassadors/index-2.html (And STEMbassadors is huge at TJ)

https://www.tjhsst.edu/research-academics/summer-school/index.html (TJ Summer Institute for MS-- and BTW, registration opens Monday)

http://techstravaganza.org/ (techstravaganza)

http://tjhsstbsu.wixsite.com/tjhsstbsu/outreach (TJ Inspire mentoring by the Black Student Union)

http://blog.jkcf.org/welcome-to-the-jack-kent-cooke-foundation-blog/one-selective-high-school-lifts-students-up-with-enrichment-program (The LIFT program, which provides mentoring, TJ test prep and funds kids who want to attend the TJ Summer Institute)

Check some of these programs out. TJ kids, teachers, admin and parents are very involved in minority outreach. The problem is NOT that TJ does not want more non-white, non-Asian kids. It is also NOT that they are apathetic about these and not trying. But, their efforts still don't seems to be increasing the yield, because for whatever reason (not in AAP, not doing the outof school STEM extras, etc) they can't seem to find well qualified kids. For example-- I can't find the numbers now, but blacks and Hispanics disproportionately do not make it to the semifinalist round. Yes-8% of the applicant pool was black. But many did not advance to the semfinalist round. So the semifinalist pool was much, much less than than 8% black.

Yes, TJ needs more minorities. But this may not be a problem that TJ can solve. You have to look at the 9 years in FCPS leading up to TJ, and make sure minority kids get the same advantages and breaks there. Then, maybe, they will be able to compete for admission on equal footing. If a kid doesn't have a strong background, you do them no favors by admitting them, because they will probably not succeed. So-- start in K and make sure they get the background.





You did an excellent job of explaining some of the outreach programs of FCPS and TJ to increase blacks and Hispanics at TJ.

What is ironic is that almost all of the black students are actually relatively recent immigrants from African countries and Caribbean countries NOT black students of families who have lived in the US for decades or longer who should benefit from these programs. Same for the affirmative action programs of the top colleges: most of the students are immigrants from Africa/Caribbean nations (and the rest are black students from high HHI with professional parents) not lower SES blacks who should actually benefit from these programs.
Anonymous
Congratulations to all students of TJ and especially those who made perfect AP test scores. Such accomplishment comes through effort and hard work. It is not a function of race. Those in TJ want to be in TJ. They work hard to get in and then work harder through their HS years. They make sacrifices that others are not willing to make.

My own kids are very bright and can work very hard too, but will not be able to be of this caliber. So, kudos to these kids and also to their parents that support their children.
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