Teacher and Admins please share ideas to have merit based pay work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

Too bad the contract is spread out over 10 months. If the school year was just 6 months of the year, teachers could get another job the other 6 months and double the pay.

Additionally, what other profession is "similar" to teaching? What other profession is tasked with educating children--up to 35 in a single classroom at one time????

I'm not even going to get into the other stuff--time spent planning, grading, paperwork, meetings, etc. Simply the TEACHING aspect. EDUCATING future doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc. WHICH OTHER PROFESSION IS SIMILAR???

Frankly, I'd want the people tasked with spending an entire day with my child to be compensated very, very nicely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

I am a pp. You say teachers are paid better. Better than what? Someone with a master's degree and 20 years experience? No. That is the education level of most teachers after a few years.

[Anonymous]

Ma'am, I call BS on all of this.

In over 20 years of teaching--different grade levels, states...I have NEVER seen the nonsense you're talking about even ONCE, much less over and over from a variety of teachers.

Of all the teacher ancedotes given on sites like dcurban, there's never been one claiming to see the things you have-much less multiple times.

What type of luck do you have that YOU just happen to be the one who goes into these classrooms to catch teachers sleeping and doing their nails?

Furthermore, coming in late does not make one a bad teacher. Tardy? Yes. Unprofessional? Sure. But that doesn't mean they're not dynamic in the classroom. Means they hit traffic or oversleep. Could also mean that they have a valid reason for being late that the principal--not YOU--is aware of and sanctioned. One of my colleagues was able to come in late weekly after chemo. Another had childcare issues that one day a week. The principal knew and gave permission in both cases.

Ditching team meetings could very well also be pre-excused by an administrator who knows of extenuating circumstances. One of my colleagues happened to need to pump during that time. Another was excused from after school meetings for--well...whatever reason...She never told me--only that it was approved by admin. Or maybe those meetings turn into unproductive bitch sessions against admin, parents, everybody.

Not pitching in as you think they should? Again, doesn't mean they're not great in the classroom. Just not team players. Or very professional. OR....perhaps they're not pitching in to YOUR judgmental, bad luck having (cause you just happen to always get stuck with loser teachers) standards.

How do test scores not match performance? Are we talking about standardized tests? Those can't be cheated on. The times my students took the test I wasn't even in the room. And I definitely didn't score the tests. The state did. Teachers were not allowed to proctor their own students throughout most of my career.

Ever heard of summer learning loss? It's possible students DID make the gains she claimed but walked into your "perfect" class at a learning loss. Again, what bad luck that every single one of your students happened to have that same horrible, test-cheating, lying teacher. Whatever did you do wrong in your past life to deserve this? The bad teachers require YOU to cover their classes. Their students come to YOU. ALL of them. They're sleeping and doing their nails when YOU innocently walk into the room. And you just happen to be on the team where the teachers ditch meetings and won't pitch in.

Poor thing.

Again, I do NOT believe your story. But I DO believe that entire fairytale was your attempt at portraying other teachers as bad without acknowledging you're one of the busybody mean girls.

Definitely not one of the mean girls. And, I told you that most of the teachers were outstanding. You are very lucky if you have not run across poor teachers.

The one who slept every day after lunch was in a Title I school in another state. I know all the other grade level teachers were aware of it.

I agree that coming in late does not make one a bad teacher. Things happen However, when teacher comes in late two or three days a week every week, that is a problem. Lucky you, not to have to deal with this. I am not talking about now and then. I am talking about twenty minutes late on a consistent basis. Sounds to me like you must be one of those. And, it is not all that rare.
It's great that your principal gave permission-I hope the administration stepped up and covered the class rather than having two classes combine every day. That is lost instructional time, you know. But, that is not the type of teacher I am talking about--I am talking about a young woman who consistently overslept.

So, it's okay to ditch team meetings all the time? That means that other duties are covered by your teammates. Not cool if you do it consistently. So, the administrator gives permission--does the administrator also pick up the extra duties? Again, I am talking about someone who always misses. And, in those cases, certainly that information would be shared with the other team members--not just "ditched". And, I agree that team meetings can be unproductive--but, some are necessary--and mandated by administration.

The tests I was referring to were given long before NCLB. And, yes, they were standardized--but in those days there was far less supervision--it was on the honor system. The teacher I am referring to bragged about how advanced her kids were--in those days, it was strictly bragging for ego purposes--not regulations. This particular teacher really impressed our principal. The next year, the teachers who had her kids were stunned with the poor skills from her kids who were so far ahead in grade level. This particular teacher had moved away--perhaps her desire was a glowing recommendation out of this --but, your "lost skills over the summer" point, does not apply here. Her kids were below the others--but the test scores were higher. The likelihood of that much regression from one group of kids is very low. And, I never said I taught her kids. I taught first. She was a second grade teacher and it was the third grade teachers who talked about it. We were all aware of it because she had bragged so much and when these kids did so poorly the next year, it was no secret.

And, the teacher doing her nails? Absolutely happened. My kids were at music when I walked into the office. This was pre computers and email. The principal handed me a note for the teacher since I was "going that way". I took it to her twenty minutes before close of day. She was not at my grade level. Maybe, it was a one time occurrence--but it is doubtful.

So, in many years of teaching, I mentioned four teachers that I thought should not be there. I think it is great that everyone you teach with is terrific. As I said, I taught with outstanding teachers, but I did know four bad apples. But, you are awfully defensive about some issues that seem to touch a nerve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

I am a pp. You say teachers are paid better. Better than what? Someone with a master's degree and 20 years experience? No. That is the education level of most teachers after a few years.

Social workers, nurses and other gov't professionals also have master's degree. Our teacher has a few years experience as do most at our public school. The principal ran off most of the seasoned ones. Teachers are better paid. They don't have to go to the worst parts of town into people's homes on a daily basis and much more. Try being a front line social worker, especially somewhere like SE DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

Too bad the contract is spread out over 10 months. If the school year was just 6 months of the year, teachers could get another job the other 6 months and double the pay.

Additionally, what other profession is "similar" to teaching? What other profession is tasked with educating children--up to 35 in a single classroom at one time????

I'm not even going to get into the other stuff--time spent planning, grading, paperwork, meetings, etc. Simply the TEACHING aspect. EDUCATING future doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc. WHICH OTHER PROFESSION IS SIMILAR???

Frankly, I'd want the people tasked with spending an entire day with my child to be compensated very, very nicely.

Our classroom has two teachers and two paraeducators for 16 kids. They don't do much planning as the curriculum is given to them. There are no textbooks and the kids who are not SN are basically dumped on the computer in centers so the other kids can catch up. Homework is a joke.

Social workers, government nurses, public health all have master's degree and are doing far more and making less. Except they don't get off 3 long breaks and summers. Even many police and fire fighters who risk their lives daily make less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

who will pay for this? I agree with what you are saying, but people want lower taxes. Not higher taxes.

Use our tax dollars more wisely then. For one, get rid of expense accounts and let the higher ups pay for their own lunches and travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

I am a pp. You say teachers are paid better. Better than what? Someone with a master's degree and 20 years experience? No. That is the education level of most teachers after a few years.

Social workers, nurses and other gov't professionals also have master's degree. Our teacher has a few years experience as do most at our public school. The principal ran off most of the seasoned ones. Teachers are better paid. They don't have to go to the worst parts of town into people's homes on a daily basis and much more. Try being a front line social worker, especially somewhere like SE DC.

you should look at what Masters earn in the federal gov't. Or in other word, try living on a teachers salary. 35 yo's with masters make 6 figures mostly, unless they are teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

who will pay for this? I agree with what you are saying, but people want lower taxes. Not higher taxes.

Use our tax dollars more wisely then. For one, get rid of expense accounts and let the higher ups pay for their own lunches and travel.

Who in the school systems have expense accounts? The most they get is expenses reimbursed at per-diem when on business travel. Free lunch? Well my uncle who is Sec. of Education for one of the States might get lunch paid for when he has meetings at lunch.

[Anonymous]

Expense accounts?! There is ONE free lunch per year at school. It's the day the bank comes courting us to open accounts with them. We even have to pay to get food at the (mandatory) end of year "celebration".

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher and I have never complained about pay. I would like a lower class size. That would be beneficial.

I do not like when threads such as this turn into "but we have to do this and you don't have to do that" type of competitions. I don't think people know all that teachers do, but I don't pretend to know what others have to do either.

The grass is always greener....

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher and I have never complained about pay. I would like a lower class size. That would be beneficial.

Amen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a teacher and I have never complained about pay. I would like a lower class size. That would be beneficial.

Amen!

This is one of my biggest stressors. We are expected to meet with 2-3 guided reading groups a day. We are expected to meet with students in writing conferences, plan for enrichment/remediation blocks, plan math workshop activities, assess and manage behaviors. All worthwhile expectations, but it is pretty much impossible with 30 third graders. I try to do what I can, but I just don't know my students as readers and writers like I used to.

[Anonymous]

I would like fcps to propose additional stipends for curriculum help and lead teacher work this year as part of teacher salary raises.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I taught for 2 years -- ES, 3rd grade. I gave up not because of the kids, but some parents. I am male, and this was 30 years ago. Make ES teachers were unusual.

I had a parent demand that the school have someone in the class to supervise me to make sure I did not do anything inappropriate. The principal refused, and instead transferred the kid to a different class.

(I was very popular with the children, I would always make them laugh while teaching them, and my kids learned the materials.)

What finally got me, though, was in my second year, in the fall, I got sick. Right around the time of the fall conferences. I had the full blown flu, 103.5 temps, etc. I missed 1 week of work. I had to cancel the conferences and reschedule them. I wanted to do it before or after school over two weeks, but there was enough blow back that I had to take a day off for the conferences.

Except I had to pay for the sub. I was making 20K / year at the time, the sub cost about 60/day. Oh, and I used sick days when sick. I could not figure out how I was going to make my rent....and one parent demanded that I do the conference on a third day -- middle of the day -- luckily, my principal covered my class for that moment.

In the middle of all of this, the same parent stopped me after school (as I was leaving), started berating me for my salary on taxpayer dime, and told me she was gong to complain to the school board because I was out of the class room for conferences. I got angry -- my mistake -- and say, do you really have any idea how little I make? And told her. She proceeded to tell me that is because I am not doing anything productive with my life. WTF? I am teaching her kid.


I got home that night I went home, and filled out grad school applications (I had taken the GRE's in college and did very well). Ended up earning a PhD from a top school. Went on to have a financially rewarding career.

I now know where the crazy parent went. Did not think they would still be fertile. Must be their offspring.

(oh, and I am winding down my career, and preparing to return to the class room).

\



Have you seen the other posts? Someone is pissed off because she has to pay money a FOIA request about (salaries )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First fix all the schools. Like working AC and heat and peeling paint and opening windows. Make the conditions actually even across counties and states (the physical plant parts). Then pay all teachers more and thereby having more people go into the profession and be able to pick the best ones for the job. Money is needed to make it a respectable profession so you don't lose people to other sectors because the pay is abysmal. Yea there are great teachers now that have the calling but many don't go into k-12 because of conditions and low pay and limited growth. Oh and get rid of administrative bloat and give principals and teachers more autonomy and less testing!

Their pay is equal, if not more to many similar professions only they get better benefits from many other gov't employees and get two months off plus Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring Break. I am so tired of hearing they are underpaid when they have a much cushier job than social workers, public health and more.

Our teacher was complaining this year about how small her classroom was. I thought it was huge and surprised by the comment.

I am a pp. You say teachers are paid better. Better than what? Someone with a master's degree and 20 years experience? No. That is the education level of most teachers after a few years.

Social workers, nurses and other gov't professionals also have master's degree. Our teacher has a few years experience as do most at our public school. The principal ran off most of the seasoned ones. Teachers are better paid. They don't have to go to the worst parts of town into people's homes on a daily basis and much more. Try being a front line social worker, especially somewhere like SE DC.

you should look at what Masters earn in the federal gov't. Or in other word, try living on a teachers salary. 35 yo's with masters make 6 figures mostly, unless they are teachers.

I was a social worker in DC making under $40,000 a year in SE DC. A teachers salary was higher starting and I had about 7 years experience. Most 35 yo's with masters are not making 6 figures depending on their career field. Teachers are not underpaid and if you feel you are, find a new profession.