GT Letter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What does it mean that they use aged norm percentile? Just got our letter and am trying to understand what the percentiles mean. Do you mean that my child was compared to others her exact age?

I believe it compares to other kids born her same month, although now I'm not positive where I saw that. But it's different than the grade-normed result, which would compare to all 2nd graders regardless of age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:16:08 if MCPS actually pays for the data you should be able to get it under FERPA. Not clear that they pay for it.

This is 16:08 again. I decided to e-mail the Office of Shared Accountability to ask if MCPS had the additional information and if it was part of my child's educational record that I could access. The response I got was that MCPS uses the national age-normed percentile as the Inview data point for students, and that piece of information is shared with the schools and with the parents. It also said that MCPS doesn't use or work with the other pieces of information available from Inview, so those aren't included in the parent letter. Which doesn't really answer my question about whether MCPS has the info and if I could access it; my guess is that they do have it but don't want to share it because parents could misinterpret and try to use it to their advantage in requesting services or placements. I don't think I'll push the point, but I still find it annoying, since I'm honestly curious about it and dislike when other people have information about me/my family that I don't have.

Thanks for posting that info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does it mean that they use aged norm percentile? Just got our letter and am trying to understand what the percentiles mean. Do you mean that my child was compared to others her exact age?

I believe it compares to other kids born her same month, although now I'm not positive where I saw that. But it's different than the grade-normed result, which would compare to all 2nd graders regardless of age.

actually I am looking at the letter and it says it compares students across the US who are the exact same age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does it mean that they use aged norm percentile? Just got our letter and am trying to understand what the percentiles mean. Do you mean that my child was compared to others her exact age?

I believe it compares to other kids born her same month, although now I'm not positive where I saw that. But it's different than the grade-normed result, which would compare to all 2nd graders regardless of age.

actually I am looking at the letter and it says it compares students across the US who are the exact same age.

what I want to know is how does that affect kids who are older or younger than the usual age for 2nd grade. Obviously they are compared to other kids their same age but I wouldn't expect there to be a huge pool of kids of the same age (for redshirted or early entry). just wondering how that affects scores.

[Anonymous]

9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

my thought is that an older kid in second (or younger) would only be compared to other kids in second grade who are older. And therefore there isn't a large pool for comparison. (because you wouldn't be able to lump them in with the third graders whose test is different). but I'm just guessing...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

my thought is that an older kid in second (or younger) would only be compared to other kids in second grade who are older. And therefore there isn't a large pool for comparison. (because you wouldn't be able to lump them in with the third graders whose test is different). but I'm just guessing...

No, Inview scores are not age normed, even within the grade. CoGat is, though, which is the test to get into HGC.

Read about the differences here:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

my thought is that an older kid in second (or younger) would only be compared to other kids in second grade who are older. And therefore there isn't a large pool for comparison. (because you wouldn't be able to lump them in with the third graders whose test is different). but I'm just guessing...

No, Inview scores are not age normed, even within the grade. CoGat is, though, which is the test to get into HGC.

Read about the differences here:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

the letter from MCPS states "a score of 80th national percentil means that the student scored higher than 80 percent of students across the United States who are the exact same age and who took the test". Does this not mean age normed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

my thought is that an older kid in second (or younger) would only be compared to other kids in second grade who are older. And therefore there isn't a large pool for comparison. (because you wouldn't be able to lump them in with the third graders whose test is different). but I'm just guessing...

No, Inview scores are not age normed, even within the grade. CoGat is, though, which is the test to get into HGC.

Read about the differences here:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

the letter from MCPS states "a score of 80th national percentil means that the student scored higher than 80 percent of students across the United States who are the exact same age and who took the test". Does this not mean age normed?

Also see poster from 6/8 at 9:25 who posted this:

This is 16:08 again. I decided to e-mail the Office of Shared Accountability to ask if MCPS had the additional information and if it was part of my child's educational record that I could access. The response I got was that MCPS uses the national age-normed percentile as the Inview data point for students, and that piece of information is shared with the schools and with the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

my thought is that an older kid in second (or younger) would only be compared to other kids in second grade who are older. And therefore there isn't a large pool for comparison. (because you wouldn't be able to lump them in with the third graders whose test is different). but I'm just guessing...

No, Inview scores are not age normed, even within the grade. CoGat is, though, which is the test to get into HGC.

Read about the differences here:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

the letter from MCPS states "a score of 80th national percentil means that the student scored higher than 80 percent of students across the United States who are the exact same age and who took the test". Does this not mean age normed?

I don't have my DC's inview test in front of me, but according to the site below, there can be several scores on the inview. I believe in mcps, we only see one score. I don't recall which score it is, but "The National Percentile by Grade (NPG) compares a student with other students in the same grade, regardless of their ages. "


https://www.neisd.net/test/documents/2ndGradeInViewBrochure2010.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

my thought is that an older kid in second (or younger) would only be compared to other kids in second grade who are older. And therefore there isn't a large pool for comparison. (because you wouldn't be able to lump them in with the third graders whose test is different). but I'm just guessing...

No, Inview scores are not age normed, even within the grade. CoGat is, though, which is the test to get into HGC.

Read about the differences here:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

the letter from MCPS states "a score of 80th national percentil means that the student scored higher than 80 percent of students across the United States who are the exact same age and who took the test". Does this not mean age normed?

Yes, it means age normed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does it mean that they use aged norm percentile? Just got our letter and am trying to understand what the percentiles mean. Do you mean that my child was compared to others her exact age?

I believe it compares to other kids born her same month, although now I'm not positive where I saw that. But it's different than the grade-normed result, which would compare to all 2nd graders regardless of age.

actually I am looking at the letter and it says it compares students across the US who are the exact same age.

what I want to know is how does that affect kids who are older or younger than the usual age for 2nd grade. Obviously they are compared to other kids their same age but I wouldn't expect there to be a huge pool of kids of the same age (for redshirted or early entry). just wondering how that affects scores.

Interesting question -- I think you're trying to see if the older/younger kids are being compared against a smaller group of peers than the middle kids. Looks like Inview is normed against a 2007 pool of test-takers (http://www.ctb.com/ctb.com/control/ctbProductViewAction?productFamilyId=449&productId=875&p=products), but we don't know how big that pool was, so it's hard to know how many people are in each age-normed group or what exactly the age-normed bin is (e.g. age in months or weeks or days). But since the test can be given at any point during the year (MCPS does December, but other school systems may do it earlier or later), there may have been a good number of kids in the norming pool who were (for example) 7 years and 4 months when they took it (like an August birthday kid would be in MCPS in December), or 8 years and 3 months (for comparison with a September birthday kid). We don't know since the norming pool info isn't easily available, but the designers of Inview hopefully put a good effort into creating a representative pool, since that's an important part of this kind of testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:45 - You are asking a great question, but I don't think the data to address it are readily available (except to the folks in the testing company). The common wisdom is that scores for older children in the grade may be compared to children who are a whole grade ahead in school, and therefore the child has to get more questions correct to get a higher score. The younger children in the grade would be in the opposite boat: can get a few more questions wrong.

But isn't this a test for second graders? Please correct me if I'm wrong. In other words - wouldn't the third graders be taking a different test so the scores from kids in second grade wouldn't be comparable.

my thought is that an older kid in second (or younger) would only be compared to other kids in second grade who are older. And therefore there isn't a large pool for comparison. (because you wouldn't be able to lump them in with the third graders whose test is different). but I'm just guessing...

No, Inview scores are not age normed, even within the grade. CoGat is, though, which is the test to get into HGC.

Read about the differences here:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

the letter from MCPS states "a score of 80th national percentil means that the student scored higher than 80 percent of students across the United States who are the exact same age and who took the test". Does this not mean age normed?

I don't have my DC's inview test in front of me, but according to the site below, there can be several scores on the inview. I believe in mcps, we only see one score. I don't recall which score it is, but "The National Percentile by Grade (NPG) compares a student with other students in the same grade, regardless of their ages. "


https://www.neisd.net/test/documents/2ndGradeInViewBrochure2010.pdf

Thanks for that link. Yes, apparently there are two ways to score - NPG and NPA. I wonder which MCPS used. From their letter it sounds like NPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does it mean that they use aged norm percentile? Just got our letter and am trying to understand what the percentiles mean. Do you mean that my child was compared to others her exact age?

I believe it compares to other kids born her same month, although now I'm not positive where I saw that. But it's different than the grade-normed result, which would compare to all 2nd graders regardless of age.

actually I am looking at the letter and it says it compares students across the US who are the exact same age.

what I want to know is how does that affect kids who are older or younger than the usual age for 2nd grade. Obviously they are compared to other kids their same age but I wouldn't expect there to be a huge pool of kids of the same age (for redshirted or early entry). just wondering how that affects scores.

Interesting question -- I think you're trying to see if the older/younger kids are being compared against a smaller group of peers than the middle kids. Looks like Inview is normed against a 2007 pool of test-takers (http://www.ctb.com/ctb.com/control/ctbProductViewAction?productFamilyId=449&productId=875&p=products), but we don't know how big that pool was, so it's hard to know how many people are in each age-normed group or what exactly the age-normed bin is (e.g. age in months or weeks or days). But since the test can be given at any point during the year (MCPS does December, but other school systems may do it earlier or later), there may have been a good number of kids in the norming pool who were (for example) 7 years and 4 months when they took it (like an August birthday kid would be in MCPS in December), or 8 years and 3 months (for comparison with a September birthday kid). We don't know since the norming pool info isn't easily available, but the designers of Inview hopefully put a good effort into creating a representative pool, since that's an important part of this kind of testing.

Yes that was exactly what I was asking. Good point that the designers would have taken this into account. Apparently there are two ways 2 score - one of which compares all kids based on their grade and one which compares kids based on their ages. I'm assuming that the scores I received from MCPS were based on the latter (based on the statement in the letter about "exact age" comparison).