Your evolution on Sanders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

've lived in the Soviet block. I am from there. Don't make me laugh with your experience based on visits to that side. So go take a seat, because you are the condescending and misinformed one. I absolutely know more than you in this subject. Nobody said CCCP and Sweden are the same thing. The post was about the poor judgment of a BS supporter

I'm the PP who had the Bernie door-knocker wearing the CCCP t-shirt. I'm also "from there" and have spent a lot of time back in that part of the world since leaving (as a young child). I genuinely can't tell if the other PP doesn't believe that the Bernie activist was wearing the shirt, or if he just doesn't think it should matter.

No, Sweden isn't the USSR, but it's still poor judgment on the part of the Bernie supporter. It also trades on this really misguided romanticism about the USSR, as if the USSR began and ended with Ten Days that Shook the World. Even the recent, and correct, revision of US history books to better account for the staggering losses suffered by the Red Army during the War against Fascism tend to leave out a huge part of the reason why the Soviets were so unprepared for a German invasion - Stalin had purged his generals in what amounted to a fit of pique.

But...I have the same reaction to Millennials in Che t-shirts. They think they want a revolution, but they have no idea the human cost.

All of this socialist paranoia about Bernie Sanders is ridiculous. He is not that radical. He is basically just a New Dealer but our society is so far right at this point, and so used to mistreating its working class, that we can't even see how incredibly reasonable the things he wants to do actually are.

We already have socialism in this country. Without it we would not have playgrounds, parks, libraries, public schools, social security, the WEEKEND, child labor laws, highways, bridges. food stamps. It is all socialism and Sanders' proposals are not farfetched in any way.

Here is Chomsky making this point. I am so sick of hearing the word "socialism" used as an insult. It only shows how successful the right wing propaganda has been in misleading the American people.

A
http://usuncut.com/politics/noam-chomsky-bernie-sanders-new-dealer-best-policies/

We don't care, pp. Especially when your source is US Uncut. But feel free to start a new thread.

Have you really never heard of Noam Chomsky? How can you be ignorant enough to brush the source off as Uncut and simply ignore what Noam Chomsky has to say?

Chomsky is a linguist who has evolved into a left-wing thinker. Can we set aside your digression and get back to the topic of the thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we get back to the topic of evolving on Sanders?

I am the PP who posted the comment about Sanders being a "New Dealer." That is my evolution on him. He is no more radical than FDR. He has proven himself to be an ethical and consistent politician in a time where that concept is almost inconceivable to most people. My evolution on Sanders is that I like him more every day. When I listen to his speeches in Congress over the years and see that he has been fighting for the good of the American people all along with ethics and consistency, I find that very inspiring. I hope we will see more politicians like him. I would like to think that, although he has probably lost this particular battle, perhaps he has helped to win the war...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A Sanders supporter showed up at my door a few weeks ago wearing a CCCP t-shirt. It was literally all I could do to politely inform him that we're a Clinton household, but HOLY CRAP Millennials! When you are door-knocking for a self-described socialist, maybe try not to evoke mental images of famine, gulag, and bread lines.

The door knocker probably didn't understand his own tshirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Sanders supporter showed up at my door a few weeks ago wearing a CCCP t-shirt. It was literally all I could do to politely inform him that we're a Clinton household, but HOLY CRAP Millennials! When you are door-knocking for a self-described socialist, maybe try not to evoke mental images of famine, gulag, and bread lines.

Cool story, bro. Why not just go all out and say a Sanders supporter came to your door wearing devil's horns and carrying a pitchfork? It would be about as credible. Sorry but Sweden != USSR. And when you say stuff like "self described socialist" you out yourself as someone who no doubt voted for Ronald Reagan back in the day.

This whole thread is just pure crap posts from wanna-be bullshit artists. Don't consider quitting your career to pursue professional-grade bullshit artistry.

Sweden. HAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous]

I started off very open minded re: Sanders and was very annoyed when some implied women not supporting Hillary were women not supporting women.

But, I just can't get behind him given his stance on gun control (or lack of a stance on gun control). For all his bluster and self righteous indignation, he's still afraid of the NRA and the voters in his state. For me, gun control is one of the top, if not the top, issues to care about. (And I know that's probably dumb given how few candidates give a real shit or will do something about our current state of affairs.)

I also am starting to get that feeling about him that I had about Anthony Weiner and Eliot Spitzer. They were both just a little too indignant and a little righteous to be believed (like the loudest homophobics who are really in the closest homosexuals).

[Anonymous]

I was wishy washy at first on Sanders so while I am not a 180-er right now as I didn't start as a supporter I cannot now stand the guy - and am totally turned off by friends who are actively supporting him. His purity and self-righteousness turns me off on a visceral, gut turning level; his stance and EXCUSES on gun control are just terrible (Leahy his fellow Vermont Senator somehow was able to win over those same rural voters AND support gun control and the Brady Bill); I cannot believe the pass HE gets for voting FOR the 1984 Crime Bill and the ongoing support he voted for for the Iraq war. Yeah he wants $15/hr minimum wage and yet there is nothing like that in his economically stable home state and the idea that small businesses - heck even large businesses are going to nearly double the wage minimums overnight is part of why (I know not asked) I support Clinton. He does nothing for others running on the Dem side and West Virginia was another state (like Wisconsin) that voted in ultra conservative supreme court justice that he could have added him voice to oppose (know he's out of $$ now so at very least lip-service for others!) That Sanders and Trump also are getting a pass for not producing their tax returns (WHAT ARE THEY BOTH HIDING) - especially after Sanders PROMISED to produce them vs the new ask that HRC produce transcripts for talks is just not an apples and apples expectation - and if her talks were so terrible bad why not leaked and where is the dirty business of her deeds??? The only thing pointed to has been vote for the bankruptcy bill and she was ONE of 82 of 100 Senators (y'know - more than 80% of the Senate) who voted for. His supporters are really the reason I now have come to pretty much detest him. The worship of a do nothing/accomplish little government employee from a tiny NE state, the self congratulatory "revolution" of largely white, single (mostly) men bypasses the core constituency of the DNC, the constant publishing of months old stories as "breaking news" or MSM bias, the horror that Clinton reaches out to moderate republicans and yet when Sanders goes to waaaay past conservative Liberty University it is seen as a Jesus moment. That he uses the DNC because he didn't believe in himself to honorably run as an independent and then does nothing to support....I have changed my opinion but only down down down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we get back to the topic of evolving on Sanders?

I am the PP who posted the comment about Sanders being a "New Dealer." That is my evolution on him. He is no more radical than FDR. He has proven himself to be an ethical and consistent politician in a time where that concept is almost inconceivable to most people. My evolution on Sanders is that I like him more every day. When I listen to his speeches in Congress over the years and see that he has been fighting for the good of the American people all along with ethics and consistency, I find that very inspiring. I hope we will see more politicians like him. I would like to think that, although he has probably lost this particular battle, perhaps he has helped to win the war...

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Sanders supporter showed up at my door a few weeks ago wearing a CCCP t-shirt. It was literally all I could do to politely inform him that we're a Clinton household, but HOLY CRAP Millennials! When you are door-knocking for a self-described socialist, maybe try not to evoke mental images of famine, gulag, and bread lines.

Cool story, bro. Why not just go all out and say a Sanders supporter came to your door wearing devil's horns and carrying a pitchfork? It would be about as credible. Sorry but Sweden != USSR. And when you say stuff like "self described socialist" you out yourself as someone who no doubt voted for Ronald Reagan back in the day.

This whole thread is just pure crap posts from wanna-be bullshit artists. Don't consider quitting your career to pursue professional-grade bullshit artistry.

Wow you really have a lot of anger alongside that denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was wishy washy at first on Sanders so while I am not a 180-er right now as I didn't start as a supporter I cannot now stand the guy - and am totally turned off by friends who are actively supporting him. His purity and self-righteousness turns me off on a visceral, gut turning level; his stance and EXCUSES on gun control are just terrible (Leahy his fellow Vermont Senator somehow was able to win over those same rural voters AND support gun control and the Brady Bill); I cannot believe the pass HE gets for voting FOR the 1984 Crime Bill and the ongoing support he voted for for the Iraq war. Yeah he wants $15/hr minimum wage and yet there is nothing like that in his economically stable home state and the idea that small businesses - heck even large businesses are going to nearly double the wage minimums overnight is part of why (I know not asked) I support Clinton. He does nothing for others running on the Dem side and West Virginia was another state (like Wisconsin) that voted in ultra conservative supreme court justice that he could have added him voice to oppose (know he's out of $$ now so at very least lip-service for others!) That Sanders and Trump also are getting a pass for not producing their tax returns (WHAT ARE THEY BOTH HIDING) - especially after Sanders PROMISED to produce them vs the new ask that HRC produce transcripts for talks is just not an apples and apples expectation - and if her talks were so terrible bad why not leaked and where is the dirty business of her deeds??? The only thing pointed to has been vote for the bankruptcy bill and she was ONE of 82 of 100 Senators (y'know - more than 80% of the Senate) who voted for. His supporters are really the reason I now have come to pretty much detest him. The worship of a do nothing/accomplish little government employee from a tiny NE state, the self congratulatory "revolution" of largely white, single (mostly) men bypasses the core constituency of the DNC, the constant publishing of months old stories as "breaking news" or MSM bias, the horror that Clinton reaches out to moderate republicans and yet when Sanders goes to waaaay past conservative Liberty University it is seen as a Jesus moment. That he uses the DNC because he didn't believe in himself to honorably run as an independent and then does nothing to support....I have changed my opinion but only down down down.

m
This pretty well summarizes my experience as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if anyone else has started off liking him and considering voting for him last year, and ended up doing an 180 this year. I am left leaning independent, if that matters. He is basically in Trump territory for me now aka I change the channel when he is on. No, I am not trolling, just interested to see if this a common trend.

Sort of. I never seriously considered voting for him because I recognized right off the bat his platform was complete and utter pie-in-the-sky stuff, but I agree in principle with a lot of what he stands for. Unfortunately, his explanations of how he would accomplish his platform as president grew increasingly disingenuous over time, while the behavior of his supporters rapidly went from starry-eyed naivete to outright toddler temper tantrums. Now I'm pretty disgusted with his candidacy. More accurately, with his continued candidacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Sanders supporter showed up at my door a few weeks ago wearing a CCCP t-shirt. It was literally all I could do to politely inform him that we're a Clinton household, but HOLY CRAP Millennials! When you are door-knocking for a self-described socialist, maybe try not to evoke mental images of famine, gulag, and bread lines.

Cool story, bro. Why not just go all out and say a Sanders supporter came to your door wearing devil's horns and carrying a pitchfork? It would be about as credible. Sorry but Sweden != USSR. And when you say stuff like "self described socialist" you out yourself as someone who no doubt voted for Ronald Reagan back in the day.

This whole thread is just pure crap posts from wanna-be bullshit artists. Don't consider quitting your career to pursue professional-grade bullshit artistry.

Congratulations, you just perfectly illustrated my point above, in bold. Good job alienating potential voters, dumbass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if anyone else has started off liking him and considering voting for him last year, and ended up doing an 180 this year. I am left leaning independent, if that matters. He is basically in Trump territory for me now aka I change the channel when he is on. No, I am not trolling, just interested to see if this a common trend.

Sort of. I never seriously considered voting for him because I recognized right off the bat his platform was complete and utter pie-in-the-sky stuff, but I agree in principle with a lot of what he stands for. Unfortunately, his explanations of how he would accomplish his platform as president grew increasingly disingenuous over time, while the behavior of his supporters rapidly went from starry-eyed naivete to outright toddler temper tantrums. Now I'm pretty disgusted with his candidacy. More accurately, with his continued candidacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Sanders supporter showed up at my door a few weeks ago wearing a CCCP t-shirt. It was literally all I could do to politely inform him that we're a Clinton household, but HOLY CRAP Millennials! When you are door-knocking for a self-described socialist, maybe try not to evoke mental images of famine, gulag, and bread lines.

Cool story, bro. Why not just go all out and say a Sanders supporter came to your door wearing devil's horns and carrying a pitchfork? It would be about as credible. Sorry but Sweden != USSR. And when you say stuff like "self described socialist" you out yourself as someone who no doubt voted for Ronald Reagan back in the day.

This whole thread is just pure crap posts from wanna-be bullshit artists. Don't consider quitting your career to pursue professional-grade bullshit artistry.

Congratulations, you just perfectly illustrated my point above, in bold. Good job alienating potential voters, dumbass.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we get back to the topic of evolving on Sanders?

I am the PP who posted the comment about Sanders being a "New Dealer." That is my evolution on him. He is no more radical than FDR. He has proven himself to be an ethical and consistent politician in a time where that concept is almost inconceivable to most people. My evolution on Sanders is that I like him more every day. When I listen to his speeches in Congress over the years and see that he has been fighting for the good of the American people all along with ethics and consistency, I find that very inspiring. I hope we will see more politicians like him. I would like to think that, although he has probably lost this particular battle, perhaps he has helped to win the war...

+1

FDR was very much an establishment politician who surrounded himself with establishment people, appointed establishment officials, and negotiated legislation through a Congress controlled by Southern Democrats. Sanders is more like Huey P. Long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if anyone else has started off liking him and considering voting for him last year, and ended up doing an 180 this year. I am left leaning independent, if that matters. He is basically in Trump territory for me now aka I change the channel when he is on. No, I am not trolling, just interested to see if this a common trend.

Sort of. I never seriously considered voting for him because I recognized right off the bat his platform was complete and utter pie-in-the-sky stuff, but I agree in principle with a lot of what he stands for. Unfortunately, his explanations of how he would accomplish his platform as president grew increasingly disingenuous over time, while the behavior of his supporters rapidly went from starry-eyed naivete to outright toddler temper tantrums. Now I'm pretty disgusted with his candidacy. More accurately, with his continued candidacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Sanders supporter showed up at my door a few weeks ago wearing a CCCP t-shirt. It was literally all I could do to politely inform him that we're a Clinton household, but HOLY CRAP Millennials! When you are door-knocking for a self-described socialist, maybe try not to evoke mental images of famine, gulag, and bread lines.

Cool story, bro. Why not just go all out and say a Sanders supporter came to your door wearing devil's horns and carrying a pitchfork? It would be about as credible. Sorry but Sweden != USSR. And when you say stuff like "self described socialist" you out yourself as someone who no doubt voted for Ronald Reagan back in the day.

This whole thread is just pure crap posts from wanna-be bullshit artists. Don't consider quitting your career to pursue professional-grade bullshit artistry.

Congratulations, you just perfectly illustrated my point above, in bold. Good job alienating potential voters, dumbass.

The fact that you vote based on what anonymous internet posters say only reinforces the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if anyone else has started off liking him and considering voting for him last year, and ended up doing an 180 this year. I am left leaning independent, if that matters. He is basically in Trump territory for me now aka I change the channel when he is on. No, I am not trolling, just interested to see if this a common trend.

Sort of. I never seriously considered voting for him because I recognized right off the bat his platform was complete and utter pie-in-the-sky stuff, but I agree in principle with a lot of what he stands for. Unfortunately, his explanations of how he would accomplish his platform as president grew increasingly disingenuous over time, while the behavior of his supporters rapidly went from starry-eyed naivete to outright toddler temper tantrums. Now I'm pretty disgusted with his candidacy. More accurately, with his continued candidacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Sanders supporter showed up at my door a few weeks ago wearing a CCCP t-shirt. It was literally all I could do to politely inform him that we're a Clinton household, but HOLY CRAP Millennials! When you are door-knocking for a self-described socialist, maybe try not to evoke mental images of famine, gulag, and bread lines.

Cool story, bro. Why not just go all out and say a Sanders supporter came to your door wearing devil's horns and carrying a pitchfork? It would be about as credible. Sorry but Sweden != USSR. And when you say stuff like "self described socialist" you out yourself as someone who no doubt voted for Ronald Reagan back in the day.

This whole thread is just pure crap posts from wanna-be bullshit artists. Don't consider quitting your career to pursue professional-grade bullshit artistry.

Congratulations, you just perfectly illustrated my point above, in bold. Good job alienating potential voters, dumbass.

The fact that you vote based on what anonymous internet posters say only reinforces the bolded.

Interesting conclusion.

And by "interesting," I of course mean "asinine."

[Anonymous]

My evolution to Sanders has been a direct function of my disillusionment with Clinton.