Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do I have this correct?

Standardized testing. Biased.

Achievement testing or classroom performance. Inaccurate, particularly if someone happens to mention to someone that they're minority or woman before hand, therefore wounding an ego.

GBRS. Biased.

So, really, on what basis are we allowed to measure someone's intellectual capacity? All I hear is a bunch of excuses for performance that doesn't meet what should be objective criteria.

"should" being the operative word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do I have this correct?

Standardized testing. Biased.

Achievement testing or classroom performance. Inaccurate, particularly if someone happens to mention to someone that they're minority or woman before hand, therefore wounding an ego.

GBRS. Biased.

So, really, on what basis are we allowed to measure someone's intellectual capacity? All I hear is a bunch of excuses for performance that doesn't meet what should be objective criteria.

"should" being the operative word.

STOP! PP, don't feed the racist!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Mexican. I came to the US legally when I was 14. My ESL (we all speak English but we only speak Spanish at home) child did not get into the pool last year. NNAT and CogAT scores were in the teens. Not even close to 132. We parent referred. My husband and I are both attorneys. We're upper middle class, even if I do get confused for the help by white people on a regular basis. Good old Fairfax County. Anyway, had a WISC done. My daughter did very well. We submitted it in the parental referral. She got in on the first round, no thanks to the GBRS score. Pretty sure the teacher thought she was just some average non-impressive hispanic kid. Thank goodness we could afford the WISC. She also had good work samples and recommendations. She is thriving at the center. The AAP program would not have included my daughter without the WISC score. I'm sure there are many like her and some in here would say she is not cut out for AAP due to her NNAT and CogAT scores but her WISC said otherwise she was in the top 99.5%. Did she have a bad day, twice? Was the test culturally bias? Whatever the case, it did not see her as AAP material and now look at her. So I could care less how she gets there, if people think she belongs there. I care that she is there and doing well.

+ 1

[Anonymous]

We can guarantee AAP mirrors the FCPS population when we guarantee all varsity sports also mirror the ethnic make up of the district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure the teacher thought she was just some average non-impressive hispanic kid.

I read plenty of stories on here of students who don't have great GBRS. Why are you assuming the teacher was racist?

[Anonymous]

New poster.

Can we not pretend that intelligence happens in a vacuum? If we put children in isolated rooms for two years, one would not magically be smarter than the other.

The single, sole, irreplaceable variable is a household that values education and engages a child. And let's spare the cr@p about some families not having the time to do so because they're working multiple jobs, etc. One needs to look no further than the way Asian families operate. Even those who are poor and working three jobs manage to instill the importance of education in their children. They don't sit around a make excuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster.

Can we not pretend that intelligence happens in a vacuum? If we put children in isolated rooms for two years, one would not magically be smarter than the other.

The single, sole, irreplaceable variable is a household that values education and engages a child. And let's spare the cr@p about some families not having the time to do so because they're working multiple jobs, etc. One needs to look no further than the way Asian families operate. Even those who are poor and working three jobs manage to instill the importance of education in their children. They don't sit around a make excuses.

Look at Ben Carson.

[Anonymous]

To add to my thoughts above.

Look at how other countries handle education. They don't view it as social engineering but as a way of preparing kids for the future. It's a pure meritocracy, and families adjust accordingly. There aren't sliding scale qualifications.

[Anonymous]

The issue is we only have theories on how to measure intelligence, which we have put into practice with tests.

There could be unknown cultural biases in our tests -- including the WISC.

I have met kids that I could swear were very smart that did not test well: kids that, at an early age showed curiosity, analytical ability, etc.

I am convinced that a lot of what we measure is the ability to apply things they have seen before to new problem spaces. If the children had not seen it before, they will be unable to apply the concept to a new space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Mexican. I came to the US legally when I was 14. My ESL (we all speak English but we only speak Spanish at home) child did not get into the pool last year. NNAT and CogAT scores were in the teens. Not even close to 132. We parent referred. My husband and I are both attorneys. We're upper middle class, even if I do get confused for the help by white people on a regular basis. Good old Fairfax County. Anyway, had a WISC done. My daughter did very well. We submitted it in the parental referral. She got in on the first round, no thanks to the GBRS score. Pretty sure the teacher thought she was just some average non-impressive hispanic kid. Thank goodness we could afford the WISC. She also had good work samples and recommendations. She is thriving at the center. The AAP program would not have included my daughter without the WISC score. I'm sure there are many like her and some in here would say she is not cut out for AAP due to her NNAT and CogAT scores but her WISC said otherwise she was in the top 99.5%. Did she have a bad day, twice? Was the test culturally bias? Whatever the case, it did not see her as AAP material and now look at her. So I could care less how she gets there, if people think she belongs there. I care that she is there and doing well.

+ 1

Black mom here. I can relate. Luckily for us we had a black teacher. GBRS was high but we still needed the WISC. NNAT and CogAT scores were not close to pool. WISC was 147. In on first round. Others would see the scores and think black son wasn't AAP material. Black kids just aren't smart enough, blah blah blah. Had we been poor, we'd be screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It should just be a much smaller program. Take care of that and most of the other problems go away.

+100

[Anonymous]

New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.