Janney Open House this week - discussion on class size?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there any discussion on reducing the number of PrK4 classes to gain a classroom or 2?

They absolutely should be discussing this. Obviously what Janney needs most is space. Best was to gain it is by jettisoning the non-required grade.

They get about twice as much money per PK student as they do K and up. This is why they keep the 4 classes.

That is not true. Here are the current funding levels from the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula:

PK3- $12,719
PK4- $12,340
K- $12,340
1-5- $ 9,492

As you can see, there is actually no difference in funding levels between PK4 and K. And the increase from first grade funding to PK4 is 30%- a good amount, yes, but not even close to "about twice as much".

The extra staffing required for PK classes just about balances out the increased funding per student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there any discussion on reducing the number of PrK4 classes to gain a classroom or 2?

They absolutely should be discussing this. Obviously what Janney needs most is space. Best was to gain it is by jettisoning the non-required grade.

They get about twice as much money per PK student as they do K and up. This is why they keep the 4 classes.

That is not true. Here are the current funding levels from the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula:

PK3- $12,719
PK4- $12,340
K- $12,340
1-5- $ 9,492

As you can see, there is actually no difference in funding levels between PK4 and K. And the increase from first grade funding to PK4 is 30%- a good amount, yes, but not even close to "about twice as much".

The extra staffing required for PK classes just about balances out the increased funding per student.

Correct. Basically that pr pupil funding difference is due to the fact that PK classes are capped and K and up are not. So you are spreading the staff salaries across fewer bodies. It is not a boon to the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there any discussion on reducing the number of PrK4 classes to gain a classroom or 2?

They absolutely should be discussing this. Obviously what Janney needs most is space. Best was to gain it is by jettisoning the non-required grade.

They get about twice as much money per PK student as they do K and up. This is why they keep the 4 classes.

That is not true. Here are the current funding levels from the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula:

PK3- $12,719
PK4- $12,340
K- $12,340
1-5- $ 9,492

As you can see, there is actually no difference in funding levels between PK4 and K. And the increase from first grade funding to PK4 is 30%- a good amount, yes, but not even close to "about twice as much".

The extra staffing required for PK classes just about balances out the increased funding per student.

Correct. Basically that pr pupil funding difference is due to the fact that PK classes are capped and K and up are not. So you are spreading the staff salaries across fewer bodies. It is not a boon to the school.

Thanks for these numbers - I had always heard "about 2x more" as well. This means to mean that decreasing the number of PK4 classes is a very logical choice. You can always add them back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there any discussion on reducing the number of PrK4 classes to gain a classroom or 2?

They absolutely should be discussing this. Obviously what Janney needs most is space. Best was to gain it is by jettisoning the non-required grade.

They get about twice as much money per PK student as they do K and up. This is why they keep the 4 classes.

That is not true. Here are the current funding levels from the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula:

PK3- $12,719
PK4- $12,340
K- $12,340
1-5- $ 9,492

As you can see, there is actually no difference in funding levels between PK4 and K. And the increase from first grade funding to PK4 is 30%- a good amount, yes, but not even close to "about twice as much".

The extra staffing required for PK classes just about balances out the increased funding per student.

Correct. Basically that pr pupil funding difference is due to the fact that PK classes are capped and K and up are not. So you are spreading the staff salaries across fewer bodies. It is not a boon to the school.

Thanks for these numbers - I had always heard "about 2x more" as well. This means to mean that decreasing the number of PK4 classes is a very logical choice. You can always add them back.

yes, I'm the poster who said that Janney gets twice as much money for a PK student.
This is very interesting!
Clearly the school needs to eliminate several PK classes.
As recent as 5 years ago they only had 2 classes.

[Anonymous]

So if they got rid of 1 class of preK - they would lose:
1. $250,000 in student allocation funds.
2. how much in facilities does DC provide per student?
3. Eliminate cost of 1 teacher and 1 aid and costs to support 1 classroom of PreK
4. Parental contributions

They would gain an environment better suited to the learning needs of upped elementary students that is going to pay lifetime dividends.

Who is willing to step up and help make this happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please see the notes and videos from the state of the school. There are several options being explored for the current third graders. The current 3rd grade is the bubble year, and the recent projections for enrollment have been spot on. To the exact number of students for 2015. The new principal is very forthcoming about information and seems very organized. If you have concerns I would strongly encourage you to talk to her.

isn't the current first grade just as large?

My son's first grade class has 24 kids in it.

That is the same size the current third grade was at 1st grade.
(24 or 25 kids per class x 5 classes)
When they turn that class into 4 classes come third grade there will also be 30/31 kids per class.
The cohort is just as large.
Plus the school always gains a few kids per class each year (in second grade, third grade etc) as more families move into the neighborhood.

....and those that move out are allowed to stay. Maybe enforcing boundary rules would help? If 2 children in each classroom of the upper grades moved to their new IB school we would be having a different conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't know what they're doing yet on class sizes for next year. They may add another 3rd, 4th and 5th grade, they may not.

Personally I hope they do. I have a third grader this year and it's been a rough year. 32 kids in the class.
I can't think of a single 3rd grade parent that would chose this size class again, 2 teachers or not.

Million dollar question - where are they getting space from? Are they going to Have a satellite campus for 1 grade at St. Ann's?

St. Ann's isn't theirs for the taking, sorry.

Isn't a lease at St. Ann's the likely "annex" solution if Janney is forced to expand to take the 10% "at risk" quota students?

[Anonymous]

Hiring an extra teacher for classes that exceed 30, bringing the teacher-student ration to 1:15 seems like a reasonable solution to me. Janney has done a great job of expanding its facilty to the degree possible, but may not be able to do much more (unless leasing nearby space like St. Ann's is viable). Still a great, well-managed public school despite the space pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't know what they're doing yet on class sizes for next year. They may add another 3rd, 4th and 5th grade, they may not.

Personally I hope they do. I have a third grader this year and it's been a rough year. 32 kids in the class.
I can't think of a single 3rd grade parent that would chose this size class again, 2 teachers or not.

Million dollar question - where are they getting space from? Are they going to Have a satellite campus for 1 grade at St. Ann's?

St. Ann's isn't theirs for the taking, sorry.

Isn't a lease at St. Ann's the likely "annex" solution if Janney is forced to expand to take the 10% "at risk" quota students?

"Likely" in the sense that it is close by - but other than that... in reality, I do not think that it is likely. I've only ever heard that come up here on this board. I've never heard that in conversation at school.

[Anonymous]

Got to eliminate pre k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't know what they're doing yet on class sizes for next year. They may add another 3rd, 4th and 5th grade, they may not.

Personally I hope they do. I have a third grader this year and it's been a rough year. 32 kids in the class.
I can't think of a single 3rd grade parent that would chose this size class again, 2 teachers or not.

Million dollar question - where are they getting space from? Are they going to Have a satellite campus for 1 grade at St. Ann's?

St. Ann's isn't theirs for the taking, sorry.

Isn't a lease at St. Ann's the likely "annex" solution if Janney is forced to expand to take the 10% "at risk" quota students?

"Likely" in the sense that it is close by - but other than that... in reality, I do not think that it is likely. I've only ever heard that come up here on this board. I've never heard that in conversation at school.

What's most unlikely is that the 10 percent at risk quota will be imposed on Janney -- at least, if logic and reason prevail in DCPS. It's hard to fathom taking a school that is already overcrowded and then increasing it's school population by nearly 10 percent, especially with many kids who may have behavioral issues and other types of special needs. It could create a very difficult situation for the school.

[Anonymous]

taking an at risk student and putting them in an over crowded classroom does not help the at risk student - other than give them a path to Deal and Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hiring an extra teacher for classes that exceed 30, bringing the teacher-student ration to 1:15 seems like a reasonable solution to me. Janney has done a great job of expanding its facilty to the degree possible, but may not be able to do much more (unless leasing nearby space like St. Ann's is viable). Still a great, well-managed public school despite the space pressure.

Trailers where the garden is.

[Anonymous]

Stoddert is a small school bursting at the seams. They used to have two preks and cut it back to one. There are 70-80 inboundary children seeking a PreK spot each year with only 19 spot to give (taken almost exclusively by younger siblings of current Stoddert kids). Glover Park residents get so little service compared to other hoods but that is what's necessary to ensure that required grades aren't overly crowded into classrooms. Janney needs to do that same for its populatio. Nix PreK. It's hard to administrators to do because of making tough staff decisions but that is why they are paid to lead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stoddert is a small school bursting at the seams. They used to have two preks and cut it back to one. There are 70-80 inboundary children seeking a PreK spot each year with only 19 spot to give (taken almost exclusively by younger siblings of current Stoddert kids). Glover Park residents get so little service compared to other hoods but that is what's necessary to ensure that required grades aren't overly crowded into classrooms. Janney needs to do that same for its populatio. Nix PreK. It's hard to administrators to do because of making tough staff decisions but that is why they are paid to lead.

Interesting point - since where did the current Principal for Janney come from? I hope she is willing to make this choice the last Principal did everything in her power to make class sizes as large as possible. You lived IB for a day - come on in . Cram another PreK class in - bring it on.

When the previous Principal started there was 1 PreK classes. She kept expanding to the detriment of the rest of the students.