I am an atheist but agree with the values of some very religious people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There's only thing that matters in all of this, OP: What do you think happens to us when we die?

To an atheist, it's not so much what we believe as a matter of faith, but what's been shown to happen. Which is to say, nothing happens to us when we die. Our brains stop functioning, our bodies decompose. Our friends and family remember us for some time, but 2-3 generations later, no one living would know we ever existed. We are merely insignificant links in a biological chain.

Now, that is what we logically understand will happen as a matter of fact. As to how that make us feel, that depends on the person. Some become scared, some find this as an indication to treasure life even more. It depends on the person, but I would say the most natural initial response, especially for people with no kids, is a profound feeling of sadness.

I'm not sad -- Im happy to be here. We are very Significant links in the biological chain--- none of us would be here if it weren't for the exact people before us.It's huge stroke of luck. As for kids -- memories of them die out after a few generations too and some day the whole universe may burn up. So what - there's nothing we can do about it. But we can enjoy it while were here.

Or we can believe in a whole invisible, eternal realm created thousands of years ago by our pre-scientific predecessors and later organized into numerous religious organizations that still exist today with financial support from their followers, and in some cases, reinforced with the threat of eternal damnation if you don't believe.

yup, live and let live. Anything else?

Live and let live would entail not forcing small children to believe things for which there is no evidence.

We parents do that with matters other than religion. Santa, tooth fairy, sorry but the grocery store ran out of ice cream. And?

and before they grow up,you tell them that it was just make believe.

No. They come to their own conclusions. You think I go down a list eliminating misunderstandings on their 18th birthdays?

"So, Tommy, the grocery store really did have ice cream that day."
"The badly limping rabbit we saw go through the yard when you were 4 yo WASN'T going to be OK."
"When you wished on all those stars, dandelion puffs and birthday candles it was for nothing. Nope, no wishes connected to those actions."

Kids figure out those things when they are kids- from other kids, and with confirmation from their parents. Then if they have younger siblings, they play the game with them for a while, before affirming that they have good reason to doubt and clueing them into to the facts. No on expects an adult to still believe or harbor doubts about Santa or the Easter Bunny. In contrast, in the case of religion, people of all ages are taught to believe, are urged to continuing believing and while doubts are allowed and even expected, it's also expected that the doubts will revert back to belief, despite the evidence.

So this is a parenting decision. Do you raise your child in religion or not. Do you raise your child with the idea of being a vegetarian, a recycler, a sports watcher, a camper, a traveler, a patriot, a dog lover.

Why should you care about how parents raise their kids and with which values?

I care in general that children are educated well. The kind of religion that requires beliefs in things for which there is no evidence (e.g. resurrection, eternal life, a heavenly kingdom, the return of a savior) is problematic. Many young adults are discarding such ideas on the own -- there's too much information out there these days to prevent curious, educated young people from learning that stories their parents and their churches told them are not true. Some of them easily discard those childish ideas. Others become very angry in the process, that they were deceived.

I understand that parents have the power and the right to influence their children and hope that it's used to the children's benefit. I've never heard of a child being harmed by being a vegetarian, recycler, etc., but know of many cases in which religion was harmful and eventually rejected by children. I also don't know of families breaking up over lack of interest in the things you list above, but do hear about how differences in religious beliefs has destroyed families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Episcopals like many , many "Christians" pick and choose what pleases them about God and reject whatever is inconvenient or indicts them as a sinner. They keep their foot in the door for salvation but don't want to be inconvenienced or rejected by the sinful world by following Christ too closely. They keep their distance but hope to be saved by the skin of their teeth.

In your fundamentalist opinion, that is.

Many episcopalians aren't thinking too much, if at all, about Salvation or a sinful world

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Since you don't have a soul , why do you care what you think?

people who don't think they have souls don't care what they think? I'm unfamiliar with this concept. Where is this taught? What does it mean?

Rocks and fish don't care what they think and are less annoying than the souless items that go on and on about their valueless feelings and opinions.

You mean People who don't think people have eternal souls? I'm surprised you even bother communicating with people you think of as "items."

People have souls .

Items don't .

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There's only thing that matters in all of this, OP: What do you think happens to us when we die?

To an atheist, it's not so much what we believe as a matter of faith, but what's been shown to happen. Which is to say, nothing happens to us when we die. Our brains stop functioning, our bodies decompose. Our friends and family remember us for some time, but 2-3 generations later, no one living would know we ever existed. We are merely insignificant links in a biological chain.

Now, that is what we logically understand will happen as a matter of fact. As to how that make us feel, that depends on the person. Some become scared, some find this as an indication to treasure life even more. It depends on the person, but I would say the most natural initial response, especially for people with no kids, is a profound feeling of sadness.

I'm not sad -- Im happy to be here. We are very Significant links in the biological chain--- none of us would be here if it weren't for the exact people before us.It's huge stroke of luck. As for kids -- memories of them die out after a few generations too and some day the whole universe may burn up. So what - there's nothing we can do about it. But we can enjoy it while were here.

Or we can believe in a whole invisible, eternal realm created thousands of years ago by our pre-scientific predecessors and later organized into numerous religious organizations that still exist today with financial support from their followers, and in some cases, reinforced with the threat of eternal damnation if you don't believe.

yup, live and let live. Anything else?

Live and let live would entail not forcing small children to believe things for which there is no evidence.

We parents do that with matters other than religion. Santa, tooth fairy, sorry but the grocery store ran out of ice cream. And?

and before they grow up,you tell them that it was just make believe.

No. They come to their own conclusions. You think I go down a list eliminating misunderstandings on their 18th birthdays?

"So, Tommy, the grocery store really did have ice cream that day."
"The badly limping rabbit we saw go through the yard when you were 4 yo WASN'T going to be OK."
"When you wished on all those stars, dandelion puffs and birthday candles it was for nothing. Nope, no wishes connected to those actions."

Kids figure out those things when they are kids- from other kids, and with confirmation from their parents. Then if they have younger siblings, they play the game with them for a while, before affirming that they have good reason to doubt and clueing them into to the facts. No on expects an adult to still believe or harbor doubts about Santa or the Easter Bunny. In contrast, in the case of religion, people of all ages are taught to believe, are urged to continuing believing and while doubts are allowed and even expected, it's also expected that the doubts will revert back to belief, despite the evidence.

So this is a parenting decision. Do you raise your child in religion or not. Do you raise your child with the idea of being a vegetarian, a recycler, a sports watcher, a camper, a traveler, a patriot, a dog lover.

Why should you care about how parents raise their kids and with which values?

I care in general that children are educated well. The kind of religion that requires beliefs in things for which there is no evidence (e.g. resurrection, eternal life, a heavenly kingdom, the return of a savior) is problematic. Many young adults are discarding such ideas on the own -- there's too much information out there these days to prevent curious, educated young people from learning that stories their parents and their churches told them are not true. Some of them easily discard those childish ideas. Others become very angry in the process, that they were deceived.

I understand that parents have the power and the right to influence their children and hope that it's used to the children's benefit. I've never heard of a child being harmed by being a vegetarian, recycler, etc., but know of many cases in which religion was harmful and eventually rejected by children. I also don't know of families breaking up over lack of interest in the things you list above, but do hear about how differences in religious beliefs has destroyed families

We are going to have to agree to disagree. And that's part of the beauty of parenting. I get to raise my kids the way I feel is best and you do as well.

My kids are being raised in church with organized religion. Your kids (if you have any) aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since you don't have a soul , why do you care what you think?

people who don't think they have souls don't care what they think? I'm unfamiliar with this concept. Where is this taught? What does it mean?

Rocks and fish don't care what they think and are less annoying than the souless items that go on and on about their valueless feelings and opinions.

You mean People who don't think people have eternal souls? I'm surprised you even bother communicating with people you think of as "items."

People have souls .

Items don't .

People who are not religious don't think anyone has a soul, but recognize that religious people believe they do have eternal souls. People who are not religious also recognize that all people, irrespective of their religious beliefs, are human and would not refer to any of them as "items" no matter what their beliefs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many people read me wrong when I say that I am an atheist.
I was raised as an atheist, but my parents were very conservative and strict. Their rules made sense, and for that reason, they were easy to follow. No drugs, alcohol, promiscuity, cheating, lying, racism, bigotry and so on. Had to do the right thing all the time. There were times when it was hard because we did not fit in anywhere. I felt very uncomfortable with religious people, who actually scared me. Anytime I saw anyone praying I would walk away.
I am still uncomfrtable with religious talk, but can discuss religion in an objective way. Some religious history and sociology actually intrigue me.
My problem is that when I say that I am an atheist, people often assume that I am a social or fiscal liberal. But when people hear that I am pro life, and anti death penalty, they assume that I am a conservative Catholic. It is really about my upbringing. My parents were very serious about cruelty to animals, people, self, the environment and so on. Half of my sibs are vegetarians. That is imprinted in my head.
Fast forward: child rearing. DH is not religious, but was raised with a light touch of religion (not Christian) and has most of my values. I like how I turned out, but DH wants them to have a touch of what he had. The problem is that I fear that the very religious exposure could take that common sense approach that my parents had and turn it into something that is unbelievable (as I see religion to be). I actually see religion as a fast track to making my kids into cynics who will rebel. DH is concerned that I never fit in anywhere and he does not want his kids to be like that. He wants them to feel a part of something.
Now I have no problem with telling them "the -----s believe in such and such, so that is why they do such and such". They can be educated about others' beliefs. But to actually attend a service to me is like the koolaid, just going too far.
Not sure how to move ahead. Sibs did nothing religious with their kids, and so far, my neices and nephews are great kids.
WWYD.
Please pardon typos.

And I'm a Christian who agrees with the values of some athiests.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If I were to ever switch religions, (I'm Catholic), and wanted to maintain much of what you seem to value though with a more universally accepting all approach I'd be taking a hard look at the Episcopalian Church.

Huh? The Episcopal Church is still an Orthodox Christian church, no matter how some of their bishops run off at the mouth.

Somebody doesn't know what "Orthodox" means.

Right, you.

"of, relating to, or conforming to the approved form of any doctrine, philosophy, ideology, etc".

I'm sorry you feel the only accepted usage if that of certain churches (Eastern Orthodox, etc). It's not.