Not all high school good grades are equal at selective universities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please refrain from using the term "Tiger Mom" since it is considered racist and derogatory by Asian Americans.

Ok, but didn't an Asian popularize the saying? Anyway, people used to complain about Jews being "pushy" parents. Same deal.

Just because some "banana" nutcase used it in a book, that does not make it less offensive especially since it is mostly used in a negative light and not in a positive light.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was my college roommate. Had straight A's from tiny town hihg school in PA. I thought he'd kick my butt, me being a B-average student from a "W" school in MoCo. We were both in engineering so not easy stuff.

His grades the first yet? All F's except for 1 D. He transferred out right after. I guess in his HS, just showing up gets you a B, and turning in your assignment on time gets you an A.

This is least intelligent post I have read in a while, which says a lot since I read the 2nd wives thread.

Nah, that one was OK. The one about "manipulating AP tests" was dumb, as was the one about getting someone else to take the SAT for you. For a year or so now, the College Board has required that you upload your photo when you register, and that you show ID on the day of the test. I don't think you can change your registration photo. So if your plan was to get different people to take your various AP and SAT subject tests for you, you're SOL.

I agree that it's widely known that colleges' regional reps understand the relative rigor at different high schools within their assigned regions. Also that many colleges reweight your transcript according to their own, proprietary formulas.

You can manipulate your GPA with AP classes especially if your tiger mom does your projects and you have top notch tutors.

OK, you really don't understand how this works, do you? I nominate your "get your tiger mom to do your AP projects for you" as the least intelligent post today. AP classes are nothing like the middle school science fair, unless your tiger mom also happens to be an NIH chemist or a university history prof.

For the record, most selective universities start with your UNweighted GPA, i.e., they give your A in AP World History a 4 not a 5. Then they reweight it using their own system. They may well give more weight to an AP class--but that's because AP classes are harder than regular or honors classes. High school honors classes are pretty easy, frankly. AP classes are supposed to be college-level classes, so the kid is working harder. Don't you think more work might deserve a higher weight?

The tutor thing is an advantage that rich kids have over poor kids. Yes, rich kids can buy extra help. But at the end of the day, kids in AP classes still have to master more material than kids in regular or honors classes.

Okay, so you don't know how it works. My sister teaches in a high school and all the parents do their kids outside research. Most their tiger moms have advanced degrees. You are delusional if you think these kids do original research and hand in projects done without professional help.

Her principal has flipped 1/2 the projects to in school projects with lectures being viewed at home because it is impossible to get moms and dads out of the mix.

I don't care if they weight AP classes with a silver spoon but the fact is people are playing the system.

Even though selective school redo GPAs, less selective do not. Also, more selective schools look at how rigorous the schedule is and when your mom and a tutor do some of your homework for you and edit/rewrite all you research papers it is much easier to take a rigorous schedule.

In the end no matter how much an AP student has to master vs another student ... They are missing out mastering things like resilience, independence and emotional intelligence other kids are mastering without their parents doing their work for them.

I'm not the poster you are responding to, but I think you're being overly dramatic and definitely relying on anecdotal "evidence" to back up your theory that ALL students who take AP tests have their parents do their work. Although I'm confident that there are some idiot parents out there who are so desperate for their kids to go that Ivies or other selective schools that they do their kids' work for them and I also believe that the teachers and school administrators have to change things because of overly involved parents, but your sweeping generalizations that AP classes are worthless because some people do this is rather odd. It's a slap in the face to the kids who do work their asses off in these difficult classes and do well. My DD didn't take AP classes, but was in an IB program of which she never received any help from me or her father. She was there to learn, worked her butt off and did quite well. I wouldn't have done her work for her if she asked, but she never once asked. She WANTED to do it herself and, you know what, so did all of her friends.

I am sure you are proud of your daughter and all her work, but it is equally impressive if a kid helps support his family working and gets pretty good grades in non-Ib/AP classes... Or a kid is a star athlete which is equivalent to a full time job and gets alright grades... Or a child with dyslexia that works their ass off for B's.

It's not like she has cured cancer, I smart sure end is a good student, but good students are a fine a dozen..

This is why northern VA kids have such so hard time getting into UVA, they may have better scores than somebody in south western Va. but that does not make them "better".

NoVa kids have a hard time getting into some state schools because the schools admit less qualified students from other parts of the state to ensure support for continued funding by the state legislature. The NoVa kids are clearly discriminated against because of their address, but so it goes.

They are state schools. Part of their mission is to seek qualified applicants from all parts of the state. If you don't like it, convince the state to set up University of Virginia-McLean

Since NoVa is heavily Asian, it's another way in which public schools discriminate against Asian students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+ 1 pp. It benefits the state to educate students from all corners.

It benefits society... you don't think selective universities do the same. Your child is competing with kids in his/her own school/district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can manipulate your GPA with AP classes especially if your tiger mom does your projects and you have top notch tutors.

OK, you really don't understand how this works, do you? I nominate your "get your tiger mom to do your AP projects for you" as the least intelligent post today. AP classes are nothing like the middle school science fair, unless your tiger mom also happens to be an NIH chemist or a university history prof.

For the record, many selective universities start with your UNweighted GPA, i.e., they give your A in AP World History a 4 not a 5. Then they reweight it using their own system. They may well give more weight to an AP class--but that's because AP classes are harder than regular or honors classes. High school honors classes are pretty easy, frankly. AP classes are supposed to be college-level classes, so the kid is working harder. Don't you think more work might deserve a higher weight?

The tutor thing is an advantage that rich kids have over poor kids. Yes, rich kids can buy extra help. But at the end of the day, kids in AP classes still have to master more material than kids in regular or honors classes.

Okay, so you don't know how it works. My sister teaches in a high school and all the parents do their kids outside research. Most their tiger moms have advanced degrees. You are delusional if you think these kids do original research and hand in projects done without professional help.

Her principal has flipped 1/2 the projects to in school projects with lectures being viewed at home because it is impossible to get moms and dads out of the mix.

I don't care if they weight AP classes with a silver spoon but the fact is people are playing the system.

Even though selective school redo GPAs, less selective do not. Also, more selective schools look at how rigorous the schedule is and when your mom and a tutor do some of your homework for you and edit/rewrite all you research papers it is much easier to take a rigorous schedule.

In the end no matter how much an AP student has to master vs another student ... They are missing out mastering things like resilience, independence and emotional intelligence other kids are mastering without their parents doing their work for them.

Is there any evidence that suggests that kids in AP classes are more likely to have parents doing their work for them?

The article indicates colleges are giving greater weight to the AP exam, not the AP grade, which should set your mind at ease. If Johnny's mom is doing all the work for him, so he gets an A in the class, it will be easy for colleges to see that something is amiss when he gets a 2 on the exam. While the kid who is soldiering through alone will actually be learning something and should perform better on the exam.

They do talk about how wealth and tutors gives an advantage on test taking.

They also state... But in an era of helicopter parenting, colleges increasingly worry that these essays aren't written by the student. To combat the possibility that parents, siblings or school counselors may be ghostwriting essays...



You don't seem to understand that tiger moms can't take the AP test for you, not even to write the essay.

Are you arguing that so many kids in AP Chem/History/French have a parent with a PhD in Chem/History/French that this is actually a significant problem in every AP Chem/History/French class? Please don't give me "this is the DC area" because I have kids in magnets here and I haven't seen the problem to the extent you're worried about.

PP is right. You should take comfort in the fact that all will be revealed when you send in a 2 on your AP test, and most kids send AP results to top colleges.

Also, you don't understand that "flipping the classroom" is a new educational model designed to take advantage of technology to cram more info and learning, by requiring kids to watch the online class first and then show up on class ready for discussion and practical exercises - more learning by doing. More hands-on, which helps with learning. It was NOT designed to keep moms away from projects, although that might be a side benefit for the occasion helicopter mom you're worried about. My college-age kid has some flipped classrooms. Google flipped classrooms. Also, I suggest you go back to your sister and talk to her again about this, and this time listen.

[Anonymous]

I know why "flipped classrooms" were designed. I also know they are not being used in the same way there were designed because kids are not doing their own work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know why "flipped classrooms" were designed. I also know they are not being used in the same way there were designed because kids are not doing their own work.

they not there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know why "flipped classrooms" were designed. I also know they are not being used in the same way there were designed because kids are not doing their own work.

Even in DC's magnet classes, the pct of kids with NIH and academic parents is very small. Not nearly enough to be "the reason," as you claimed earlier, for implementing flipped classrooms. Now you're backtracking a bit, but you're still wrong.

You clearly don't understand much about the college application process, so it's a shame you're here offering your 1 cent. You started this thread because of your ignorance that colleges' regional reps compare rigor among high schools all the time, as their standard practice. You also didn't know that colleges look at unweighted GPAs and often re weight them.

I think you're a thinly disguised racist, and I say that as a white person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know why "flipped classrooms" were designed. I also know they are not being used in the same way there were designed because kids are not doing their own work.

Even in DC's magnet classes, the pct of kids with NIH and academic parents is very small. Not nearly enough to be "the reason," as you claimed earlier, for implementing flipped classrooms. Now you're backtracking a bit, but you're still wrong.

You clearly don't understand much about the college application process, so it's a shame you're here offering your 1 cent. You started this thread because of your ignorance that colleges' regional reps compare rigor among high schools all the time, as their standard practice. You also didn't know that colleges look at unweighted GPAs and often re weight them.

I think you're a thinly disguised racist, and I say that as a white person.

Wow! Somebody is defensive. I actually know what I am talking about and it bothers you because you hate that it is true and kind of confuses your grand plan.

I also know about the athletic index. I know all sorts of things I have not mentioned in my posts above.

Flipped classroom is not beneficial if it takes away from class discussion, which it will if they are all working on projects so the teachers can actually grade the student instead of the team behind the student. Pretending that paid tutors and parents are not helping kids just shows you have your head in the sand or you are angry about being called out.

The racist person is the one that immediately assumes the parents doing their children's homework are Asian, I never said they were Asian, you just assumed it. Shame on you.

Read the original study not the lame article and educate yourself (unless you are busy editing your child's papers.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know why "flipped classrooms" were designed. I also know they are not being used in the same way there were designed because kids are not doing their own work.

Even in DC's magnet classes, the pct of kids with NIH and academic parents is very small. Not nearly enough to be "the reason," as you claimed earlier, for implementing flipped classrooms. Now you're backtracking a bit, but you're still wrong.

You clearly don't understand much about the college application process, so it's a shame you're here offering your 1 cent. You started this thread because of your ignorance that colleges' regional reps compare rigor among high schools all the time, as their standard practice. You also didn't know that colleges look at unweighted GPAs and often re weight them.

I think you're a thinly disguised racist, and I say that as a white person.

Wow! Somebody is defensive. I actually know what I am talking about and it bothers you because you hate that it is true and kind of confuses your grand plan.

I also know about the athletic index. I know all sorts of things I have not mentioned in my posts above.

Flipped classroom is not beneficial if it takes away from class discussion, which it will if they are all working on projects so the teachers can actually grade the student instead of the team behind the student. Pretending that paid tutors and parents are not helping kids just shows you have your head in the sand or you are angry about being called out.

The racist person is the one that immediately assumes the parents doing their children's homework are Asian, I never said they were Asian, you just assumed it. Shame on you.

Read the original study not the lame article and educate yourself (unless you are busy editing your child's papers.)

My "grand plan"? I'm supposedly editing papers ... in subjects I don't understand (I don't have a science degree)?

Now you've changed your argument some more, and you're now arguing that flipped classroom in-school projects are predominantly "group projects"? Huh? Where's your data? I'll bring mine: my HS kid only has one flipped classroom this year, but I'm sure that 95% of in-class work is done on an individual basis (I want to say 100% is done on an individual basis, but I'd have to ask him) and, if he doesn't finish in class, he brings it home to finish it on his own.

Congratulations on knowing lots of things, though.

I smell a troll. Or a bored teenager - MCPS is on a professional day today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was my college roommate. Had straight A's from tiny town hihg school in PA. I thought he'd kick my butt, me being a B-average student from a "W" school in MoCo. We were both in engineering so not easy stuff.

His grades the first yet? All F's except for 1 D. He transferred out right after. I guess in his HS, just showing up gets you a B, and turning in your assignment on time gets you an A.

This is least intelligent post I have read in a while, which says a lot since I read the 2nd wives thread.

Nah, that one was OK. The one about "manipulating AP tests" was dumb, as was the one about getting someone else to take the SAT for you. For a year or so now, the College Board has required that you upload your photo when you register, and that you show ID on the day of the test. I don't think you can change your registration photo. So if your plan was to get different people to take your various AP and SAT subject tests for you, you're SOL.

I agree that it's widely known that colleges' regional reps understand the relative rigor at different high schools within their assigned regions. Also that many colleges reweight your transcript according to their own, proprietary formulas.

You can manipulate your GPA with AP classes especially if your tiger mom does your projects and you have top notch tutors.

OK, you really don't understand how this works, do you? I nominate your "get your tiger mom to do your AP projects for you" as the least intelligent post today. AP classes are nothing like the middle school science fair, unless your tiger mom also happens to be an NIH chemist or a university history prof.

For the record, most selective universities start with your UNweighted GPA, i.e., they give your A in AP World History a 4 not a 5. Then they reweight it using their own system. They may well give more weight to an AP class--but that's because AP classes are harder than regular or honors classes. High school honors classes are pretty easy, frankly. AP classes are supposed to be college-level classes, so the kid is working harder. Don't you think more work might deserve a higher weight?

The tutor thing is an advantage that rich kids have over poor kids. Yes, rich kids can buy extra help. But at the end of the day, kids in AP classes still have to master more material than kids in regular or honors classes.

Okay, so you don't know how it works. My sister teaches in a high school and all the parents do their kids outside research. Most their tiger moms have advanced degrees. You are delusional if you think these kids do original research and hand in projects done without professional help.

Her principal has flipped 1/2 the projects to in school projects with lectures being viewed at home because it is impossible to get moms and dads out of the mix.

I don't care if they weight AP classes with a silver spoon but the fact is people are playing the system.

Even though selective school redo GPAs, less selective do not. Also, more selective schools look at how rigorous the schedule is and when your mom and a tutor do some of your homework for you and edit/rewrite all you research papers it is much easier to take a rigorous schedule.

In the end no matter how much an AP student has to master vs another student ... They are missing out mastering things like resilience, independence and emotional intelligence other kids are mastering without their parents doing their work for them.

I don't know any kids who get or need any help with their AP classes, including my own. Either your sister is delusional or she is teaching kids who aren't academic enough to be taking AP classes. Or maybe she is one of those whiny teachers who resent their students and constantly complain about them and their parents.

[Anonymous]

I don't know any kids who get or need any help with their AP classes, including my own. Either your sister is delusional or she is teaching kids who aren't academic enough to be taking AP classes. Or maybe she is one of those whiny teachers who resent their students and constantly complain about them and their parents.

She was not complaining. She just stated that all the AP teachers were spending their planning day brainstorming on how to get the kids to do their own work. Its part of her job. She does not care, except she misses the discussion part of her classroom which was one of her favorite parts because it is now replaced with silent kids writing their own papers and doing their own projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know why "flipped classrooms" were designed. I also know they are not being used in the same way there were designed because kids are not doing their own work.

Even in DC's magnet classes, the pct of kids with NIH and academic parents is very small. Not nearly enough to be "the reason," as you claimed earlier, for implementing flipped classrooms. Now you're backtracking a bit, but you're still wrong.

You clearly don't understand much about the college application process, so it's a shame you're here offering your 1 cent. You started this thread because of your ignorance that colleges' regional reps compare rigor among high schools all the time, as their standard practice. You also didn't know that colleges look at unweighted GPAs and often re weight them.

I think you're a thinly disguised racist, and I say that as a white person.

Wow! Somebody is defensive. I actually know what I am talking about and it bothers you because you hate that it is true and kind of confuses your grand plan.

I also know about the athletic index. I know all sorts of things I have not mentioned in my posts above.

Flipped classroom is not beneficial if it takes away from class discussion, which it will if they are all working on projects so the teachers can actually grade the student instead of the team behind the student. Pretending that paid tutors and parents are not helping kids just shows you have your head in the sand or you are angry about being called out.

The racist person is the one that immediately assumes the parents doing their children's homework are Asian, I never said they were Asian, you just assumed it. Shame on you.

Read the original study not the lame article and educate yourself (unless you are busy editing your child's papers.)

My "grand plan"? I'm supposedly editing papers ... in subjects I don't understand (I don't have a science degree)?

Now you've changed your argument some more, and you're now arguing that flipped classroom in-school projects are predominantly "group projects"? Huh? Where's your data? I'll bring mine: my HS kid only has one flipped classroom this year, but I'm sure that 95% of in-class work is done on an individual basis (I want to say 100% is done on an individual basis, but I'd have to ask him) and, if he doesn't finish in class, he brings it home to finish it on his own.

Congratulations on knowing lots of things, though.

I smell a troll. Or a bored teenager - MCPS is on a professional day today.

I agree you are not qualified to help in an AP class.

Ask you child if other students do all their work or if they have help at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know any kids who get or need any help with their AP classes, including my own. Either your sister is delusional or she is teaching kids who aren't academic enough to be taking AP classes. Or maybe she is one of those whiny teachers who resent their students and constantly complain about them and their parents.

She was not complaining. She just stated that all the AP teachers were spending their planning day brainstorming on how to get the kids to do their own work. Its part of her job. She does not care, except she misses the discussion part of her classroom which was one of her favorite parts because it is now replaced with silent kids writing their own papers and doing their own projects.

This makes no sense. I'm not sure you heard correctly. The whole point of flipping the classroom is to free up time for discussion, and also to make sure the kids are well prepared for discussion and ready to ask questions as they dive right into any projects.

Flipping aside, in what school do kids work silently on group projects (you originally said the problem was that these were group projects) without any interaction with the teacher at all? What does the teacher do, read novels while the kids work?

Also, just a tip, you'll seem more credible if you stop insulting everybody here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know any kids who get or need any help with their AP classes, including my own. Either your sister is delusional or she is teaching kids who aren't academic enough to be taking AP classes. Or maybe she is one of those whiny teachers who resent their students and constantly complain about them and their parents.

She was not complaining. She just stated that all the AP teachers were spending their planning day brainstorming on how to get the kids to do their own work. Its part of her job. She does not care, except she misses the discussion part of her classroom which was one of her favorite parts because it is now replaced with silent kids writing their own papers and doing their own projects.

This makes no sense. I'm not sure you heard correctly. The whole point of flipping the classroom is to free up time for discussion, and also to make sure the kids are well prepared for discussion and ready to ask questions as they dive right into any projects.

Flipping aside, in what school do kids work silently on group projects (you originally said the problem was that these were group projects) without any interaction with the teacher at all? What does the teacher do, read novels while the kids work?

Also, just a tip, you'll seem more credible if you stop insulting everybody here.

You need to read more carefully.

I understand the purpose of a flipped classroom BUT (this is context clue that I will give an alternate reason... Kids should look for But statements during SATs) they are using it for a different purpose.... To ensure kids are doing their work with out mom's input.

I am not sure why this concept is so hard. In Point #2 of the exact same article colleges don't trust that college essays are written by the student. This is pretty common knowledge in the college apps scene.

They are not group projects but they are being done by a team: student, tutor, mom and dad. You misread my post.

Yes, my sister walks around and kids explain their project to her. When they are writing papers, she will have kids come up to explain her edits, grammar, weak point on their writing. They can't take a copy home. Parents email her, may I please see a copy of my child's research paper, what is the big secret.

I have not insulted everybody just the as guy who thinks he know something about a school in PA that he has never visited and he thinks he knows why his roommate dropped out. I doubt he does, he sounds ignorant and arrogant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know any kids who get or need any help with their AP classes, including my own. Either your sister is delusional or she is teaching kids who aren't academic enough to be taking AP classes. Or maybe she is one of those whiny teachers who resent their students and constantly complain about them and their parents.

She was not complaining. She just stated that all the AP teachers were spending their planning day brainstorming on how to get the kids to do their own work. Its part of her job. She does not care, except she misses the discussion part of her classroom which was one of her favorite parts because it is now replaced with silent kids writing their own papers and doing their own projects.

This makes no sense. I'm not sure you heard correctly. The whole point of flipping the classroom is to free up time for discussion, and also to make sure the kids are well prepared for discussion and ready to ask questions as they dive right into any projects.

Flipping aside, in what school do kids work silently on group projects (you originally said the problem was that these were group projects) without any interaction with the teacher at all? What does the teacher do, read novels while the kids work?

Also, just a tip, you'll seem more credible if you stop insulting everybody here.

You need to read more carefully.

I understand the purpose of a flipped classroom BUT (this is context clue that I will give an alternate reason... Kids should look for But statements during SATs) they are using it for a different purpose.... To ensure kids are doing their work with out mom's input.

I am not sure why this concept is so hard. In Point #2 of the exact same article colleges don't trust that college essays are written by the student. This is pretty common knowledge in the college apps scene.

They are not group projects but they are being done by a team: student, tutor, mom and dad. You misread my post.

Yes, my sister walks around and kids explain their project to her. When they are writing papers, she will have kids come up to explain her edits, grammar, weak point on their writing. They can't take a copy home. Parents email her, may I please see a copy of my child's research paper, what is the big secret.

I have not insulted everybody just the as guy who thinks he know something about a school in PA that he has never visited and he thinks he knows why his roommate dropped out. I doubt he does, he sounds ignorant and arrogant.

Yikes. Smug, wrong and illogical is a toxic combination.

So it's not group of kids that means it's hard to hand out grades (like you said at first), nor is it an individual working in complete silence without the discussion you said your sister likes (like you said the next time). Now you say it's a "team" that looks (from what you describe) like an individual kid but which you choose to call a "team" because, you insist based on no evidence, that the "team" includes mom and dad. A person could be excused for asking for a playbill for your many act changes.

What do college essays have to do with AP classes? Everybody knows that the college essay is suspect. But "Point #2 of the exact same article" has nothing to do with your point about AP classes. Why are you even referring to this irrelevant "Point #2"?

Yes, your insults that people aren't qualified to teach AP are still insults.

You are a waste of time, being ignorant, and probably also being a troll. Good bye!

Signed,

Another mom who has never helped her DC with AP class and wonders if you have any experience with APs anyway