Family of Four on 90k - An Upper Middle Class Existence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living in a 3-BD house in a non-great neighborhood and taking a few domestic trips to see family is NOT upper-middle class, OP.

It's comfortably middle class, but it's nowhere near upper-middle class. Heck, before I had my kids DH and I were maxing out retirement and our HHI was only $65K. We had no debt, bought a new car with cash, and took twice-yearly international trips. Firmly middle class.

Frankly, I think the cutoff for upper-middle is if you are close to not having to work anymore for money. Not stuck in the rat race to make ends meet.

We live in a great neighborhood. What's wrong with taking domestic trips?

Another skewed dcum doldrums troll.

Not PP, but I don't think they are trolling. They are rightfully saying that this sounds like a fine lifestyle, but it's quite the stretch to call it upper middle class.

I grew up lower middle class - this is definitely an upper middle class lifestyle.

Hardly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yup, you read it right.

I'm SICK of reading the "500k, woe is me threads". I'm also sick of seeing the bashing going on towards the single woman in the other thread.

Don't read them!

I can't decide what is worse- rich people who complain about being poor or poor people that brag about being rich.

Aren't we all trying to to the best we can? Don't we come to this forum to learn from one another (and commiserate)?

This!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have student loans?

Paid them all off in our 20s. I'm 33, DH 34.

OP I am the same age as your husband. How in the world did he have enough for a down payment on a house in 2002 at 22 years old? Truly curious (and jealous)!

I'm also 34 and have the same question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have student loans?

Paid them all off in our 20s. I'm 33, DH 34.

OP I am the same age as your husband. How in the world did he have enough for a down payment on a house in 2002 at 22 years old? Truly curious (and jealous)!

I'm also 34 and have the same question.

Back then it might have been possible to get a house with no money down, maybe even no documented income?

[Anonymous]

This math is difficult, OP.

HHI is 90k

Max out TSP and Roths for a combined 19,500 in 2014 - down to 70.5k

Assume for the sake of argument that you pay 15% in federal and state taxes, Medicare, and social security. That's 10.5k, down to 60k.

You tithe 10% gross - down to 51k. That's 4250 each month. Even assuming you have a tremendous amount of equity in your home (and if you don't think there is luck involved in your real estate purchases, you're nuts) assume your mortgage is $1000/month. Down to 3250 per month. Out of that, you pay for health insurance, car insurance, car repairs, new cars, fuel, electric, food, cable, Internet, cell phones, land line, entertainment, annual trips to CA, other entertainment, and I'm sure there's a host of other things I'm forgetting.

Can it be done? Sure. Is it upper middle class? Sorry, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like you made some good financial decisions, but you also had timing on your side. I was still in high school when your DH bought his first place. Now that I'm old enough to buy my first home, prices have already gone up a lot. I literally paid more than double for my house in 2013 than the prior owners paid in 2003. It is depressing trying to become a first time homeowner.

Oh and I'm pregnant with my first. Daycare around me costs close to 2k for infants. I checked with a licensed in-home daycare and it is $1,400/month. Staying home isn't an option because DH and I both have some graduate school loans (though thankfully not a ton like some of our friends).

Since I plan to keep working, home schooling is not an option. We had to pay for a neighborhood with good public schools in NoVa. And we couldn't move super far out because two people spending a ton of time commuting to ther jobs = no one around to make dinner, do daycare pickup/drop off etc.

I think it is truly great that you're making it work on 90k and I agree some of the people who complain about struggling on 500k a year are obnoxious. But your situation is apples and oranges to families who are younger than you and need to live close-in for job reasons and want good school districts.

Thanks for your post.

When we were younger, times were tougher.

You'll get there.

Additionally, priorities are different for each fam. No issues there.

I just couldn't stand folks ganging up on the frugal single girl all the while posting that they can't make it on 6 figures.

Middle class is by definition somewhere around the median income. If higher percentile a of income aren't upper middle class (75th and above), then what is?

Just because the middle class lifestyle has changed doesn't mean that upper incomes are now middle class.

Ah, so you feel kindred for the other middle class poster with 4 roommates.

You both are ridiculous; the vast majority of people's incomes here go to mortgage, student loans, and childcare. That's why $200k is hard to make it on.

Winning the housing lottwry or not yet having any adult responsibility are not really relatable cases to most people

I wonder about your skill as a homeschool instructor, as you already seem somewhat obtuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This math is difficult, OP.

HHI is 90k

Max out TSP and Roths for a combined 19,500 in 2014 - down to 70.5k

Assume for the sake of argument that you pay 15% in federal and state taxes, Medicare, and social security. That's 10.5k, down to 60k.

You tithe 10% gross - down to 51k. That's 4250 each month. Even assuming you have a tremendous amount of equity in your home (and if you don't think there is luck involved in your real estate purchases, you're nuts) assume your mortgage is $1000/month. Down to 3250 per month. Out of that, you pay for health insurance, car insurance, car repairs, new cars, fuel, electric, food, cable, Internet, cell phones, land line, entertainment, annual trips to CA, other entertainment, and I'm sure there's a host of other things I'm forgetting.

Can it be done? Sure. Is it upper middle class? Sorry, no.

In sure OP doesn't waste money on cell phones and uses the library for entertainment and Internet. That's what we do!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like you made some good financial decisions, but you also had timing on your side. I was still in high school when your DH bought his first place. Now that I'm old enough to buy my first home, prices have already gone up a lot. I literally paid more than double for my house in 2013 than the prior owners paid in 2003. It is depressing trying to become a first time homeowner.

Oh and I'm pregnant with my first. Daycare around me costs close to 2k for infants. I checked with a licensed in-home daycare and it is $1,400/month. Staying home isn't an option because DH and I both have some graduate school loans (though thankfully not a ton like some of our friends).

Since I plan to keep working, home schooling is not an option. We had to pay for a neighborhood with good public schools in NoVa. And we couldn't move super far out because two people spending a ton of time commuting to ther jobs = no one around to make dinner, do daycare pickup/drop off etc.

I think it is truly great that you're making it work on 90k and I agree some of the people who complain about struggling on 500k a year are obnoxious. But your situation is apples and oranges to families who are younger than you and need to live close-in for job reasons and want good school districts.

Thanks for your post.

When we were younger, times were tougher.

You'll get there.

Additionally, priorities are different for each fam. No issues there.

I just couldn't stand folks ganging up on the frugal single girl all the while posting that they can't make it on 6 figures.

Middle class is by definition somewhere around the median income. If higher percentile a of income aren't upper middle class (75th and above), then what is?

Just because the middle class lifestyle has changed doesn't mean that upper incomes are now middle class.

Ah, so you feel kindred for the other middle class poster with 4 roommates.

You both are ridiculous; the vast majority of people's incomes here go to mortgage, student loans, and childcare. That's why $200k is hard to make it on.

Winning the housing lottwry or not yet having any adult responsibility are not really relatable cases to most people

I wonder about your skill as a homeschool instructor, as you already seem somewhat obtuse.

Yes. This lifestyle is not anywhere close to upper middle class, she should just admit it.

[Anonymous]

Miserable dcum posters love to descend on threads that have a positive message and try to rip it apart.

Why are you ladies so miserable with life?

This is OP, signing off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Miserable dcum posters love to descend on threads that have a positive message and try to rip it apart.

Why are you ladies so miserable with life?

This is OP, signing off.

Your OP called everyone pathetic. Where is the positive message in that? You kinda opened yourself up for this.

[Anonymous]

We make it on 90k too. But we do not max out retirement and tithe. We pay for aftercare and used to pay daycare. It's somewhat tight budget but we are basically fine. I would not call us upper middle class. At least in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Miserable dcum posters love to descend on threads that have a positive message and try to rip it apart.

Why are you ladies so miserable with life?

This is OP, signing off.

Your OP called everyone pathetic. Where is the positive message in that? You kinda opened yourself up for this.

To defend OP, she was only calling out those who stirred the pot first. A lot of dcum folks are pathetic whiners - why come in and try to disrupt a thread with off topic posts?

To contest OP, we make a touch over 400k, and we feel very middle class. I think lack of real estate plus student loans is a game changer for even slightly younger folks these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, our lifestyle and income is similar to yours, except for the homeschooling business. Be prepared to be ripped to shreds for daring to suggest that anyone can survive on HHI less than 200k. I would offer more support, but it is pretty much pointless.

+1
105k here, funding college accounts, IRA's, 401k's and cash savings too.
No consumer debt and own 2 cars outright

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Miserable dcum posters love to descend on threads that have a positive message and try to rip it apart.

Why are you ladies so miserable with life?

This is OP, signing off.

Your OP called everyone pathetic. Where is the positive message in that? You kinda opened yourself up for this.

To defend OP, she was only calling out those who stirred the pot first. A lot of dcum folks are pathetic whiners - why come in and try to disrupt a thread with off topic posts?

To contest OP, we make a touch over 400k, and we feel very middle class. I think lack of real estate plus student loans is a game changer for even slightly younger folks these days.

I didn't see anyone post anything off topic, and if her original post starts off calling people pathetic whiners, just how well could she have expected it to go?

[Anonymous]

I have neighbors who make 300K and they are living with no savings, huge mortgage (1 mil home), private school, 5 K for college, very little for retirement.

They spend like crazy on leasing expensive cars, numerous vacations, eating out, maid service, spas and massages. They are the richest among all their relatives (in their HHI). They did not come from a lot of money and they feel that these luxuries are part and parcel of earning 300K. They are always bemoaning the fact that they are broke (they are usually a few hundred short each month) and do not know how to live on less. They are a mess.