Jay Mathews: Did money keep student out of top school? [TJ]

[Anonymous]

High SAT score is not a indication of high aptitude in STEM because it's too easy.

[Anonymous]

None of the TJ kids I know are in STEM fields...........

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the comments section Jay Matthews says his point is to show that there are other great options besides TJ. I would hope a lot of parents know that and are passing that information on to their kids. Robbie seems like an amazing kid, it would be wonderful if he and his father were celebrating that and all the ways he's a success, not dwelling on others SAT scores and a clunky admissions process. No selective school can make all the right choices, but no adult should act like that determines a child's future success.

The impossibility of perfection should never preclude improvement. It's sad how you keep trying to turn this into a criticism of the family when there is zero indication they're obsessed or trying to do anything other than expose the flaws in the TJ admissions process.

Well, it is pretty unusual for a parent to do a Freedom of Information request to find out how many kids got a higher SAT score than his child. In fact, this is the first I've ever heard of anyone doing this. It does come across that they're are trying to say that if TJ didn't take our kid then the admissions process must be flawed, rather than simply realizing that no process is perfect, moving on, and being happy that the child ended up in what appears to have been a good place for him. For all they know, it's possible he wouldn't have liked TJ and the long commute involved and so actually ended up at the better place for him at Herndon.

[Anonymous]

I am a lawyer and I wouldn't even imagine that one could file a FOIA request about SAT scores. And that doesn't even consider whether a parent should do this (among other things it could send the message to the child that it doesn't matter that he did great until we KNOW how great compared to others). And then publish that you did that in the Washington Post ... All to put forth the hypothesis that TJ neglects kids who can't do after school activities? But there are many things the child could have done for free and not after school. How about writing op-eds for the Post or local paper? Taking the AMC tests? Online math contests? Model UN (in middle school, mostly requires writing papers and going to local conferences on weekends)? Science Olympiad (in middle school, mostly requires memorizing notebooks I information on topics and showing up at weekend competitions)? Community theater (rehearsal is always at night and weekends because the adult actors work -- but it does require a lot of time)? Steady volunteering for a nonprofit on weekends? Our DC did most of these and got into TJ - with comparable grades and test scores --- and not all the activities were STEM based. And once at TJ, it's not all about STEM - for example, their newspaper just won what might be considered a Pulitzer for high school papers. (Nothing wrong with teaching scientists how to write clearly, IMO).

To support the thesis that Jay Matthews focuses on in the comments section, which is that other schools are great too -- DC was a top student in middle school (a supposed feeder) but not the top kid. Several great candidates did not even apply to TJ. Some went to to private school. Others to the base schools. They will do great there, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also - isn't any application process a "game" of sorts? Don't you think you'd want to consider what the audience might be looking for whether it's an application for a high school, college, or job? People looking for work have different resumes for different types of positions. Is that bad? Or smart? My hunch is the family assumed TJ admissions because of strong grades since pre-K, an inquisitive spirit, good test taking skills, and strong outside interests (even if not school-based). Not a bad likelihood but it didn't turn out. This is why we told our DC who expressed interest in TJ to keep grades up, get involved in things that interest you, but do NOT count on getting in TJ. All you can do is prepare. But after that - like any admissions process, job hunt, election, ball game - there's a bit of randomness to the process. You could be the best applicant ever on paper and still not get in for who knows what reason. Just like a bad bounce of the ball from a glove can cost the World Series. This is life. Filing a FOIA request to determine just how high your kid's SAT scores are is over the top. It also wastes taxpayer dollars to have government employees respond to the request. What if everyone did that? And so now they know he's 36th in Fairfax County for what that is worth. There are more than 3,000 counties in the US according to Google. Still a steep climb for HYP admissions and you can't FOIA their materials.

^^White Tiger Dad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid received score of 2180 for SAT at age 11 (CTY Program), had perfect middle school GPA and also received 99/100 on the TJ exam and was waitlisted. It's not just this kid who did not get accepted with great numbers etc.

This kid has better stats than the kid in the article.

[Anonymous]

To bad the county does not have a liberal arts or performing arts high school that would be an equivalent to TJs science and technology focus. Heck, even DCPS has a performing arts high school...Fairfax County, nada!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid received score of 2180 for SAT at age 11 (CTY Program), had perfect middle school GPA and also received 99/100 on the TJ exam and was waitlisted. It's not just this kid who did not get accepted with great numbers etc.

This kid has better stats than the kid in the article.

This kid probably also had a lot more resources available to him. Do you know how expensive CTY classes are. The article is about how kids from low SES families are affected by grades only being 35 percent of the admissions process. Most lower SES kids aren't taking the SAT at 11 because it costs money to take it'

[Anonymous]

People, you need to get over TJ. One of the most highly successful scientists that I know graduated from a non-TJ high school with good-not excellent grades. Smart is smart no matter what high school you attend.

[Anonymous]

I think his dad is right to shine the light of shame on TJ admissions -- a kid who gets a near perfect score on the SAT at 15, who is considered 3 grades ahead and taught himself Latin can't get into TJ? WOW. Something is really wrong.

There is something wrong with the admissions process at TJ and he is right to shine a light and keep working on this. Robbie is just one of many who wee bypassed in TJ admissions in favor of "other" qualities. It is time for a rework of the TJ admissions process. Money did not keep Robbie out -- but he was undeniable qualified and should have gotten in -- and many others like him. There are very few students like Robbie at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it's a bit much for a parent with a high scoring SAT kid, who is doing fine years after unsuccessfully applying for some school (here TJ), filing out a FOIA request to confirm not only that the kid's score was indeed high (which is obvious) but exactly how many people the County can identify as scoring higher. And I suspect he was surprised that it was as many kids as they demonstrated. And Fairfax County was likely only counting kids who took the SAT as high school students in the county school system. There are a number of DC area 12 and 13 year olds who take the SAT every year. They register separately and wouldn't necessarily be on the county system. Nor would kids who went private instead of TJ (or elsewhere). The dedication to proving everything is A-OK and his kid's a genius seems obsessive. If it's good, rejoice. You don't have to prove it to anyone.

I understand this perfectly and willing to join in with Matthews. The FCPS is punitive -- I would want to be well out of it before I started my lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

My kid bombed the math section. Never prepped. Never did the STEM extracurriculars, didn't take the advanced Math course ... got accepted. I can guess why. In DS catch up math class you can see who got accepted for special reasons and why.

[Anonymous]

Declining applications, and TJ's football team was the only school in NoVa that went 0-10. Ouch.

[Anonymous]

Those football players are brave and tough. A very small roster. Some kids play every play - defense and offense, all game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer and I wouldn't even imagine that one could file a FOIA request about SAT scores. And that doesn't even consider whether a parent should do this (among other things it could send the message to the child that it doesn't matter that he did great until we KNOW how great compared to others). And then publish that you did that in the Washington Post ... All to put forth the hypothesis that TJ neglects kids who can't do after school activities? But there are many things the child could have done for free and not after school. How about writing op-eds for the Post or local paper? Taking the AMC tests? Online math contests? Model UN (in middle school, mostly requires writing papers and going to local conferences on weekends)? Science Olympiad (in middle school, mostly requires memorizing notebooks I information on topics and showing up at weekend competitions)? Community theater (rehearsal is always at night and weekends because the adult actors work -- but it does require a lot of time)? Steady volunteering for a nonprofit on weekends? Our DC did most of these and got into TJ - with comparable grades and test scores --- and not all the activities were STEM based. And once at TJ, it's not all about STEM - for example, their newspaper just won what might be considered a Pulitzer for high school papers. (Nothing wrong with teaching scientists how to write clearly, IMO).

To support the thesis that Jay Matthews focuses on in the comments section, which is that other schools are great too -- DC was a top student in middle school (a supposed feeder) but not the top kid. Several great candidates did not even apply to TJ. Some went to to private school. Others to the base schools. They will do great there, too.

I am a lawyer also. We did this when our child was denied application at a school. It is a standard procedure. Child accepted and doing well.