Jay Mathews: Did money keep student out of top school? [TJ]

[Anonymous]

The thing missing here is that TJ is not the be all end all. Robbie has a great experience at Herndon--and, I bet he's not an aberration.

[Anonymous]

No admission system is perfect and catch all gifted student. Harvard University did not accept Warren Buffett and Jack Ma (Alibaba CEO). It does not mean Harvard is a bad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had 2 kids admitted to TJ. They took no prep classes, never had a tutor or attended a fancy computer/science/tech camp. Both took advantage of clubs in middle school (math, drama, tech) and both designed science fair projects that did well in the district and state science fairs. I don't know why Robbie didn't get into TJ, but I don't think it has anything to do with money.

Ben Moore has a huge chip on his shoulder - I mean who files a FOIA for SAT scores? I hope he can get over it because it sounds like his son is doing great.

I read the article and Robbie sounds like a fabulous kid. Forget about whether anyone else paid for tutors, etc. Robbie could not participate in the *free* clubs offered at his middle school b/c he had to come home right after school to babysit his sisters and take care of the house. That's a money issue. And if the activities portion is such a large part of the application, he gets screwed. And who knows how the whole teacher recommendation process works and since his parents were too busy studying to become a nurse and putting food on the table, they didn't have time to "learn the system" and/or get friendly with the teachers at the middle school. So, yes, I can see why the dad has a bit of a chip on his shoulder and I don't blame him. But it sounds like Robbie has done very well for himself and will hopefully get enough merit money or financial aid to go to a great college. TJ's loss. Herndon's gain and I'm sure that Robbie will be an honored alum one day.

I never learned any "system" and had nothing to do with the kids getting recommendations from their teachers. My kids decided which teachers to ask and asked them, and I only met their teachers at back-to-school night. The year Robbie applied to TJ the student information sheet was completed at home and asked very broad questions - things like "what's your favorite subject in school and why" and "if you could study one thing what would it be" - topics that don't require money to write a decent answer to. They're looking for kids with a passion for math and science, not just kids who can get 800s on SATs.

My kids, particularly the oldest, had to be home after school most days to watch her younger sister, and she also made her share of dinners. In fact she just reminded me that in one of her essays she wrote about teaching her sister how to play Math Dice. Again, it's not lack of money that's the issue, although that makes a great headline.

You sound awfully defensive. I guess having the quirkiness of TJ admissions discussed makes you uneasy.

The statistics don't lie. Poor kids do not get into TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing missing here is that TJ is not the be all end all. Robbie has a great experience at Herndon--and, I bet he's not an aberration.

+1

As another example, look at the developer of Project Naptha, a student at MIT:

http://projectnaptha.com/

Kevin Kwok is also an FCPS grad, but he's not from TJ. And he's not from Herndon, either. He's a graduate of Annandale HS.

[Anonymous]

Could someone list the names of stunning TJ graduates?

[Anonymous]

Look up the TJHSST Partnership Fund newsletter for some profiles of graduates (and students) including various who became Rhodes scholars, physics professors at schools like Stanford, teachers at other Fairfax HS, internet entrepreneurs, a filmmaker/MD who won awards at Sundance and the Berlin Film Festival. Her quote is a good summary - TJ taught her to think outside the box ... So she could make her own career that combines art, science, and social impact.

TJ grads I have met seem to share that entrepreneurial sense of making what they want from their careers.

[Anonymous]

Every school in FCPS has distinguished alumni of some type. Of course, TJ kids are impressive--but it doesn't seem to me that they shine significantly more than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And he wouldn't have made it at TJ if he had to take care if siblings. TJ has a long day, particularly with a long bus ride from Reston. And all the kids there do extra curricular activities like sports, etc. One would think the parents could have made it possible for some participation in some kind of enriching activity at the middle school. Admission just on test scores alone is not what people wanted either.

What, like, 'lets not eat this month" so Robbie can have afterschool activities?

Uhh, Robbie "loves playing tuba in the wind ensemble and sousaphone in the band, which has performed as far away as Hawaii." Unless he's some kind of musical genius, he *did* have access to at least one extracurricular activity prior to applying to TJ...

[/b]He did those things AT HERNDON, Sherlock[b]. And if he took music lessons prior to Herndon, it was likely during the school day at his previous schools.

I think his dad is right to shine the light of shame on TJ admissions -- a kid who gets a near perfect score on the SAT at 15, who is considered 3 grades ahead and taught himself Latin can't get into TJ? WOW. Something is really wrong. On the flip side, I'm glad he is "thriving" and excelling and having a great experience at Herndon (to the chagrin of those who would say Herndon, South Lakes and the like are crap compared to Langley, McLean, etc., etc.).

Robbie and his parents have my respect. TJ admissions -- not so much.

Ok "Sherlock," he just waltzed into the nationally-recognized band with no previous experience? And his parents never bought or rented an instrument for him to practice on? So freaking naive. The family is molding their narrative to justify their pity party (despite that Robbie has clearly thrived at HH).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And he wouldn't have made it at TJ if he had to take care if siblings. TJ has a long day, particularly with a long bus ride from Reston. And all the kids there do extra curricular activities like sports, etc. One would think the parents could have made it possible for some participation in some kind of enriching activity at the middle school. Admission just on test scores alone is not what people wanted either.

What, like, 'lets not eat this month" so Robbie can have afterschool activities?

Uhh, Robbie "loves playing tuba in the wind ensemble and sousaphone in the band, which has performed as far away as Hawaii." Unless he's some kind of musical genius, he *did* have access to at least one extracurricular activity prior to applying to TJ...

[/b]He did those things AT HERNDON, Sherlock[b]. And if he took music lessons prior to Herndon, it was likely during the school day at his previous schools.

I think his dad is right to shine the light of shame on TJ admissions -- a kid who gets a near perfect score on the SAT at 15, who is considered 3 grades ahead and taught himself Latin can't get into TJ? WOW. Something is really wrong. On the flip side, I'm glad he is "thriving" and excelling and having a great experience at Herndon (to the chagrin of those who would say Herndon, South Lakes and the like are crap compared to Langley, McLean, etc., etc.).

Robbie and his parents have my respect. TJ admissions -- not so much.

Ok "Sherlock," he just waltzed into the nationally-recognized band with no previous experience? And his parents never bought or rented an instrument for him to practice on? So freaking naive. The family is molding their narrative to justify their pity party (despite that Robbie has clearly thrived at HH).

I'm not picking up on any "pity party," just someone shining a light on TJ's weird admission policies.

You really are disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jay Matthews has been grinding his ax about TJ for years. I suspect his kids did not get in.

Usual crowd going after anyone who challenges anything about TJ with an axe. Nothing new there.

+1
The tired "sour grapes" argument. Shocker: many highly qualified kids have no desire to attend TJ and don't bother applying.

[Anonymous]

Well it's a bit much for a parent with a high scoring SAT kid, who is doing fine years after unsuccessfully applying for some school (here TJ), filing out a FOIA request to confirm not only that the kid's score was indeed high (which is obvious) but exactly how many people the County can identify as scoring higher. And I suspect he was surprised that it was as many kids as they demonstrated. And Fairfax County was likely only counting kids who took the SAT as high school students in the county school system. There are a number of DC area 12 and 13 year olds who take the SAT every year. They register separately and wouldn't necessarily be on the county system. Nor would kids who went private instead of TJ (or elsewhere). The dedication to proving everything is A-OK and his kid's a genius seems obsessive. If it's good, rejoice. You don't have to prove it to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And he wouldn't have made it at TJ if he had to take care if siblings. TJ has a long day, particularly with a long bus ride from Reston. And all the kids there do extra curricular activities like sports, etc. One would think the parents could have made it possible for some participation in some kind of enriching activity at the middle school. Admission just on test scores alone is not what people wanted either.

What, like, 'lets not eat this month" so Robbie can have afterschool activities?

Uhh, Robbie "loves playing tuba in the wind ensemble and sousaphone in the band, which has performed as far away as Hawaii." Unless he's some kind of musical genius, he *did* have access to at least one extracurricular activity prior to applying to TJ...

[/b]He did those things AT HERNDON, Sherlock[b]. And if he took music lessons prior to Herndon, it was likely during the school day at his previous schools.

I think his dad is right to shine the light of shame on TJ admissions -- a kid who gets a near perfect score on the SAT at 15, who is considered 3 grades ahead and taught himself Latin can't get into TJ? WOW. Something is really wrong. On the flip side, I'm glad he is "thriving" and excelling and having a great experience at Herndon (to the chagrin of those who would say Herndon, South Lakes and the like are crap compared to Langley, McLean, etc., etc.).

Robbie and his parents have my respect. TJ admissions -- not so much.

Ok "Sherlock," he just waltzed into the nationally-recognized band with no previous experience? And his parents never bought or rented an instrument for him to practice on? So freaking naive. The family is molding their narrative to justify their pity party (despite that Robbie has clearly thrived at HH).

I'm not picking up on any "pity party," just someone shining a light on TJ's weird admission policies.

Disgusting? For pointing out that the family is packaging their story? Good lord. Why does this make you so angry? No one is saying that TJ's admissions policy is perfect, but, in my opinion, Robbie and his family are embarrassing themselves and seriously damaging his college applications.

You really are disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had 2 kids admitted to TJ. They took no prep classes, never had a tutor or attended a fancy computer/science/tech camp. Both took advantage of clubs in middle school (math, drama, tech) and both designed science fair projects that did well in the district and state science fairs. I don't know why Robbie didn't get into TJ, but I don't think it has anything to do with money.

Ben Moore has a huge chip on his shoulder - I mean who files a FOIA for SAT scores? I hope he can get over it because it sounds like his son is doing great.

I read the article and Robbie sounds like a fabulous kid. Forget about whether anyone else paid for tutors, etc. Robbie could not participate in the *free* clubs offered at his middle school b/c he had to come home right after school to babysit his sisters and take care of the house. That's a money issue. And if the activities portion is such a large part of the application, he gets screwed. And who knows how the whole teacher recommendation process works and since his parents were too busy studying to become a nurse and putting food on the table, they didn't have time to "learn the system" and/or get friendly with the teachers at the middle school. So, yes, I can see why the dad has a bit of a chip on his shoulder and I don't blame him. But it sounds like Robbie has done very well for himself and will hopefully get enough merit money or financial aid to go to a great college. TJ's loss. Herndon's gain and I'm sure that Robbie will be an honored alum one day.

+1

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a really smart and hard working young man with a very bright future. I'm sure he will move onto a great college (especially if he can find a way to package his experience s if being a family caregiver at age 12 into a good essay) and in 10 years from now not getting into tj will not seem like a big deal. Sometimes being the big fish in a small pond (not that Herndon that small but less cutthroat than tj) can be better for students

[Anonymous]

He sounds like a great kid. Sometimes it's better to stand out at your neighborhood school than to be one of many at a more selective school, and it sounds like he did get a very good education at Herndon. Throughout the country it's very uncommon to find a school where you're even prepared for 15 AP tests plus 4 college classes (or whatever the article said). I went to one of the top ranked public high schools in my state and graduated in 2001 and I can tell you we offered I believe 10 AP classes and that was it. And none of them were in the sciences because we didn't have the lab space in our building.