Jay Mathews: Did money keep student out of top school? [TJ]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it's a bit much for a parent with a high scoring SAT kid, who is doing fine years after unsuccessfully applying for some school (here TJ), filing out a FOIA request to confirm not only that the kid's score was indeed high (which is obvious) but exactly how many people the County can identify as scoring higher. And I suspect he was surprised that it was as many kids as they demonstrated. And Fairfax County was likely only counting kids who took the SAT as high school students in the county school system. There are a number of DC area 12 and 13 year olds who take the SAT every year. They register separately and wouldn't necessarily be on the county system. Nor would kids who went private instead of TJ (or elsewhere). The dedication to proving everything is A-OK and his kid's a genius seems obsessive. If it's good, rejoice. You don't have to prove it to anyone.

I don't see why curiosity gets tagged as obsessive, unless of course you don't like questions being asked. The fortress mentality is very strong at TJ, and everyone else is supposed to just shut up and bow.

[Anonymous]

The dad made a mistake believing that he knew everything.

Dad should have looked into the application process a few years in advance to see what was needed.

There are plenty of free opportunities and things his could have done as extra curriculars.

[Anonymous]

Dad should have looked into the application process a few years in advance to see what was needed.

Why? So, in order to get into TJ you are required to have a parent who prepares you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The dad made a mistake believing that he knew everything.

Dad should have looked into the application process a few years in advance to see what was needed.

There are plenty of free opportunities and things his could have done as extra curriculars.

I don't think there was any need for the parents to have looked into the process ahead of time to see what was needed. The questions the kids were asked the year this young man applied involved writing about what they liked and enjoyed doing both in and out of school. The kids were asked to write about their favorite subjects and topics and what they felt were their most important accomplishments in and out of school and why they wanted to go to TJ. It costs nothing to have a favorite subject or a favorite activity and tell why you enjoy them best. An activity doesn't have to cost money: a kid could enjoy reading books from the library or doing math games and puzzles found in library books.
This boy must have had a best subject and seems to have had a number of accomplishments he could have written about: playing an instrument, taking care of siblings, teaching himself Latin, learning how to cook and then preparing meals for his family. There is a lot of science in cooking, so right there was a big opportunity to show how science and math relate to his accomplishments.
In regards to teacher recs, my child also chose and asked his teachers, just as a PP's child did. I met the teachers once at back to school night and once at the end of the year promotion celebration. My child worked hard in class, the teachers saw that and wrote about it. Parents do not need to know the teachers, the teachers write about what they see the student do in class.
Sadly, there are many more highly accomplished students in this area than there are places available at TJ. No matter how they do the admissions process some people will be unhappy, it is just the nature of the beast. This particular child seems to have landed on his feet and has had a positive experience at Herndon. Who knows, maybe commuting from Herndon to TJ would have been exhausting and stressful and could have had a negative effect on his level of success. I have had kids at regular high schools and TJ and seen lots of success among them and their friends, whether they went to TJ or not. This family is justifiably proud of their very successful son; I wish them and him many future successes as they move forward to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it's a bit much for a parent with a high scoring SAT kid, who is doing fine years after unsuccessfully applying for some school (here TJ), filing out a FOIA request to confirm not only that the kid's score was indeed high (which is obvious) but exactly how many people the County can identify as scoring higher. And I suspect he was surprised that it was as many kids as they demonstrated. And Fairfax County was likely only counting kids who took the SAT as high school students in the county school system. There are a number of DC area 12 and 13 year olds who take the SAT every year. They register separately and wouldn't necessarily be on the county system. Nor would kids who went private instead of TJ (or elsewhere). The dedication to proving everything is A-OK and his kid's a genius seems obsessive. If it's good, rejoice. You don't have to prove it to anyone.

I don't see why curiosity gets tagged as obsessive, unless of course you don't like questions being asked. The fortress mentality is very strong at TJ, and everyone else is supposed to just shut up and bow.

Well, SAT is not that significant. One can prep and game SAT. It's the other things like team play, leadership skills, critical thinking skills etc. that matter. There are many applicants with perfect SAT scores who get rejected by the top colleges every year. Numbers do not tell the whole story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it's a bit much for a parent with a high scoring SAT kid, who is doing fine years after unsuccessfully applying for some school (here TJ), filing out a FOIA request to confirm not only that the kid's score was indeed high (which is obvious) but exactly how many people the County can identify as scoring higher. And I suspect he was surprised that it was as many kids as they demonstrated. And Fairfax County was likely only counting kids who took the SAT as high school students in the county school system. There are a number of DC area 12 and 13 year olds who take the SAT every year. They register separately and wouldn't necessarily be on the county system. Nor would kids who went private instead of TJ (or elsewhere). The dedication to proving everything is A-OK and his kid's a genius seems obsessive. If it's good, rejoice. You don't have to prove it to anyone.

I don't see why curiosity gets tagged as obsessive, unless of course you don't like questions being asked. The fortress mentality is very strong at TJ, and everyone else is supposed to just shut up and bow.

Well, SAT is not that significant. One can prep and game SAT. It's the other things like team play, leadership skills, critical thinking skills etc. that matter. There are many applicants with perfect SAT scores who get rejected by the top colleges every year. Numbers do not tell the whole story.

From all indications, the Herndon student possesses far more of those skills than many TJ students. He simply wasn't packaged properly because his parents were newcomers to the area, had to work, and did not have a network to tell them how to play the TJ game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well it's a bit much for a parent with a high scoring SAT kid, who is doing fine years after unsuccessfully applying for some school (here TJ), filing out a FOIA request to confirm not only that the kid's score was indeed high (which is obvious) but exactly how many people the County can identify as scoring higher. And I suspect he was surprised that it was as many kids as they demonstrated. And Fairfax County was likely only counting kids who took the SAT as high school students in the county school system. There are a number of DC area 12 and 13 year olds who take the SAT every year. They register separately and wouldn't necessarily be on the county system. Nor would kids who went private instead of TJ (or elsewhere). The dedication to proving everything is A-OK and his kid's a genius seems obsessive. If it's good, rejoice. You don't have to prove it to anyone.

I don't see why curiosity gets tagged as obsessive, unless of course you don't like questions being asked. The fortress mentality is very strong at TJ, and everyone else is supposed to just shut up and bow.

Well, SAT is not that significant. One can prep and game SAT. It's the other things like team play, leadership skills, critical thinking skills etc. that matter. There are many applicants with perfect SAT scores who get rejected by the top colleges every year. Numbers do not tell the whole story.

From all indications, the Herndon student possesses far more of those skills than many TJ students. He simply wasn't packaged properly because his parents were newcomers to the area, had to work, and did not have a network to tell them how to play the TJ game.

While there are students who are "packaged" for TJ, there are plenty there who took no prep classes and didn't ever participate in the "usual suspect" extracurriculars. My child never took a prep class, wrote whatever he wanted for the essays, and asked teachers for recommendations on his own. The only extracurricular he wrote about was his sport! He wrote about the math and science he saw in it and what he had learned from it. No prepackaged, memorized essays or long list of activities. Just essays in his own words reflecting his own thoughts. No need to play any games to get accepted at TJ.

[Anonymous]

In the comments section Jay Matthews says his point is to show that there are other great options besides TJ. I would hope a lot of parents know that and are passing that information on to their kids. Robbie seems like an amazing kid, it would be wonderful if he and his father were celebrating that and all the ways he's a success, not dwelling on others SAT scores and a clunky admissions process. No selective school can make all the right choices, but no adult should act like that determines a child's future success.

[Anonymous]

Also - isn't any application process a "game" of sorts? Don't you think you'd want to consider what the audience might be looking for whether it's an application for a high school, college, or job? People looking for work have different resumes for different types of positions. Is that bad? Or smart? My hunch is the family assumed TJ admissions because of strong grades since pre-K, an inquisitive spirit, good test taking skills, and strong outside interests (even if not school-based). Not a bad likelihood but it didn't turn out. This is why we told our DC who expressed interest in TJ to keep grades up, get involved in things that interest you, but do NOT count on getting in TJ. All you can do is prepare. But after that - like any admissions process, job hunt, election, ball game - there's a bit of randomness to the process. You could be the best applicant ever on paper and still not get in for who knows what reason. Just like a bad bounce of the ball from a glove can cost the World Series. This is life. Filing a FOIA request to determine just how high your kid's SAT scores are is over the top. It also wastes taxpayer dollars to have government employees respond to the request. What if everyone did that? And so now they know he's 36th in Fairfax County for what that is worth. There are more than 3,000 counties in the US according to Google. Still a steep climb for HYP admissions and you can't FOIA their materials.

[Anonymous]

Filing a FOIA request to determine just how high your kid's SAT scores are is over the top. It also wastes taxpayer dollars to have government employees respond to the request. What if everyone did that? And so now they know he's 36th in Fairfax County for what that is worth.

And he is likely tied for 36th place with some number of other students. The article said only 35 students scored above Mr. Moore's son, but does not note how many others achieved the same score.
And I'm not even sure why it matters how many scored higher. Once you get over about 2200, colleges don't really care that much. They know that at that point your score can be affected by which version of the test you happened to get or a bubbling error. If you score over 2200, they know you are pretty darn smart. Being in the over 2200 pile is great, then you have to show colleges what else you bring to the table.

[Anonymous]

My kid received score of 2180 for SAT at age 11 (CTY Program), had perfect middle school GPA and also received 99/100 on the TJ exam and was waitlisted. It's not just this kid who did not get accepted with great numbers etc.

[Anonymous]

Was this Rob kid NMSF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was this Rob kid NMSF?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the comments section Jay Matthews says his point is to show that there are other great options besides TJ. I would hope a lot of parents know that and are passing that information on to their kids. Robbie seems like an amazing kid, it would be wonderful if he and his father were celebrating that and all the ways he's a success, not dwelling on others SAT scores and a clunky admissions process. No selective school can make all the right choices, but no adult should act like that determines a child's future success.

The impossibility of perfection should never preclude improvement. It's sad how you keep trying to turn this into a criticism of the family when there is zero indication they're obsessed or trying to do anything other than expose the flaws in the TJ admissions process.

[Anonymous]

No admission system can be perfect. There are many applicants with high gpa and exam scores who are rejected each year. Maybe this kid had a relatively low GPA or below average essay.