Can there be an Atheist forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree there's a need for a separate forum, but I think there are some militant/rude atheists here in the same way that there are mommy battles in other DCUM forums.

I happen to be Catholic, but value open discussions of thought. Unfortunately, there are one or more posters who are deliberately insulting - saying things like "god is just like santa claus or the easter bunny or a flying unicorn" in a way that comes across as derisive and deliberately offensive. It's the difference between a thoughtful discussion between individuals who, while they may not change each other's minds, are open to understanding the others way of thinking, and an argument between two name-calling idiots.

A separate forum won't fix that since no one is blocked from participating in any forum. I'm not TTC but nothing stops me from posting there if I want. People that want to be mean or cause trouble under the cloak of anonymity will.

I agree - and perhaps if atheist remarks come across as insulting is, at least in some part, because you haven't thought of your religious beliefs as being similar to beliefs in santa, etc. So it's jarring.

Certainly there are differences, religious isn't just folklore or fantasy, but it has some things in common - lack of evidence and reliance on supernaturalism or magic. Santa is a childish thing and religion can be adult and more complex, but they do have supernaturalism in common. And faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, what's the harm in making this a support forum? Else call it Debate For/Against Religion, or Religion Or Lack Thereof.

Every other specialized forum here is along the lines of support and not to debate the validity of the forum topic. The animosity here is pathetic.

Nice idea, but there's no point. Posters like 17:05 would still try to trash the Believers' forum. They can't help themselves. It's just too hard to resist ad hominems and the rush that comes from spouting some half-truth or lie and waiting to see if anybody knows enough to refute it (oh, the irony, you'd think an atheist would really care about the truth).[/quote

Irony indeed. No wonder Darwin waited 25 years before publishing his research on Evolution. It's been refuted and disputed and disparaged and trashed, but it's still science.

My complaint is that some atheists posters don't even bother to argue. Like PP, they go off on random tangents about Darwin, pretending that one example proves that atheists have a right to trash the Religion forum. Or something... I'm not even sure what the point of that was.

Maybe this poster just isn't very bright, and maybe he's under the illusion that he was actually making a cogent point... about something, who knows what. But I doubt it very much. I think it's more strategic: this poster doesn't want to have a real discussion, he just wants to infuriate people. If facts won't help him infuriate people, he reaches for the ad hominems and switches the subject via random tangents involving Darwin.

Signed,
A Christian who believes in evolution

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree there's a need for a separate forum, but I think there are some militant/rude atheists here in the same way that there are mommy battles in other DCUM forums.

I happen to be Catholic, but value open discussions of thought. Unfortunately, there are one or more posters who are deliberately insulting - saying things like "god is just like santa claus or the easter bunny or a flying unicorn" in a way that comes across as derisive and deliberately offensive. It's the difference between a thoughtful discussion between individuals who, while they may not change each other's minds, are open to understanding the others way of thinking, and an argument between two name-calling idiots.

A separate forum won't fix that since no one is blocked from participating in any forum. I'm not TTC but nothing stops me from posting there if I want. People that want to be mean or cause trouble under the cloak of anonymity will.

I agree - and perhaps if atheist remarks come across as insulting is, at least in some part, because you haven't thought of your religious beliefs as being similar to beliefs in santa, etc. So it's jarring.

Certainly there are differences, religious isn't just folklore or fantasy, but it has some things in common - lack of evidence and reliance on supernaturalism or magic. Santa is a childish thing and religion can be adult and more complex, but they do have supernaturalism in common. And faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, what's the harm in making this a support forum? Else call it Debate For/Against Religion, or Religion Or Lack Thereof.

Every other specialized forum here is along the lines of support and not to debate the validity of the forum topic. The animosity here is pathetic.

Nice idea, but there's no point. Posters like 17:05 would still try to trash the Believers' forum. They can't help themselves. It's just too hard to resist ad hominems and the rush that comes from spouting some half-truth or lie and waiting to see if anybody knows enough to refute it (oh, the irony, you'd think an atheist would really care about the truth).[/quote

Irony indeed. No wonder Darwin waited 25 years before publishing his research on Evolution. It's been refuted and disputed and disparaged and trashed, but it's still science.

My complaint is that some atheists posters don't even bother to argue. Like PP, they go off on random tangents about Darwin, pretending that one example proves that atheists have a right to trash the Religion forum. Or something... I'm not even sure what the point of that was.

Maybe this poster just isn't very bright, and maybe he's under the illusion that he was actually making a cogent point... about something, who knows what. But I doubt it very much. I think it's more strategic: this poster doesn't want to have a real discussion, he just wants to infuriate people. If facts won't help him infuriate people, he reaches for the ad hominems and switches the subject via random tangents involving Darwin.

Signed,
A Christian who believes in evolution

it's infuriating to mention Darwin's dilemma?

Signed, An atheist who believed in evolution as a Christian and realizes that many Christians have no problem with evolution, but still identify with Christians who think evolution is bunk

[Anonymous]

^ Why is it so hard to use the quote function correctly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Why is it so hard to use the quote function correctly?

It's an affliction that seems to affect atheists and christians alike!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Why is it so hard to use the quote function correctly?

It's an affliction that seems to affect atheists and christians alike!

[Anonymous]

I wish we could get a separate forum for people who can't use the quote function properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Why is it so hard to use the quote function correctly?

Posting from my smart phone the quote function only works half the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, what's the harm in making this a support forum? Else call it Debate For/Against Religion, or Religion Or Lack Thereof.

Every other specialized forum here is along the lines of support and not to debate the validity of the forum topic. The animosity here is pathetic.

Nice idea, but there's no point. Posters like 17:05 would still try to trash the Believers' forum. They can't help themselves. It's just too hard to resist ad hominems and the rush that comes from spouting some half-truth or lie and waiting to see if anybody knows enough to refute it (oh, the irony, you'd think an atheist would really care about the truth).[/quote

Irony indeed. No wonder Darwin waited 25 years before publishing his research on Evolution. It's been refuted and disputed and disparaged and trashed, but it's still science.

My complaint is that some atheists posters don't even bother to argue. Like PP, they go off on random tangents about Darwin, pretending that one example proves that atheists have a right to trash the Religion forum. Or something... I'm not even sure what the point of that was.

Maybe this poster just isn't very bright, and maybe he's under the illusion that he was actually making a cogent point... about something, who knows what. But I doubt it very much. I think it's more strategic: this poster doesn't want to have a real discussion, he just wants to infuriate people. If facts won't help him infuriate people, he reaches for the ad hominems and switches the subject via random tangents involving Darwin.

Signed,
A Christian who believes in evolution

it's infuriating to mention Darwin's dilemma?

Signed, An atheist who believed in evolution as a Christian and realizes that many Christians have no problem with evolution, but still identify with Christians who think evolution is bunk

It's infuriating when you resort to non sequiturs and random tangents (of which Darwin is just one example) when need to deflect and change the focus, because you have no valid points for why it's OK to trash religion.

It's one more sleazy debating tactic in your huge arsenal of ad hominems and logical fallacies.

But of course you already know this. (I think, unless you really did fail Logic 101.)

[Anonymous]

Here, fixed it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My complaint is that some atheists posters don't even bother to argue. Like PP, they go off on random tangents about Darwin, pretending that one example proves that atheists have a right to trash the Religion forum. Or something... I'm not even sure what the point of that was.

Maybe this poster just isn't very bright, and maybe he's under the illusion that he was actually making a cogent point... about something, who knows what. But I doubt it very much. I think it's more strategic: this poster doesn't want to have a real discussion, he just wants to infuriate people. If facts won't help him infuriate people, he reaches for the ad hominems and switches the subject via random tangents involving Darwin.

Signed,
A Christian who believes in evolution

it's infuriating to mention Darwin's dilemma?

Signed, An atheist who believed in evolution as a Christian and realizes that many Christians have no problem with evolution, but still identify with Christians who think evolution is bunk

It's infuriating when you resort to non sequiturs and random tangents (of which Darwin is just one example) when need to deflect and change the focus, because you have no valid points for why it's OK to trash religion.

It's one more sleazy debating tactic in your huge arsenal of ad hominems and logical fallacies.

But of course you already know this. (I think, unless you really did fail Logic 101.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here, fixed it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My complaint is that some atheists posters don't even bother to argue. Like PP, they go off on random tangents about Darwin, pretending that one example proves that atheists have a right to trash the Religion forum. Or something... I'm not even sure what the point of that was.

Maybe this poster just isn't very bright, and maybe he's under the illusion that he was actually making a cogent point... about something, who knows what. But I doubt it very much. I think it's more strategic: this poster doesn't want to have a real discussion, he just wants to infuriate people. If facts won't help him infuriate people, he reaches for the ad hominems and switches the subject via random tangents involving Darwin.

Signed,
A Christian who believes in evolution

it's infuriating to mention Darwin's dilemma?

Signed, An atheist who believed in evolution as a Christian and realizes that many Christians have no problem with evolution, but still identify with Christians who think evolution is bunk

It's infuriating when you resort to non sequiturs and random tangents (of which Darwin is just one example) when need to deflect and change the focus, because you have no valid points for why it's OK to trash religion.

It's one more sleazy debating tactic in your huge arsenal of ad hominems and logical fallacies.

But of course you already know this. (I think, unless you really did fail Logic 101.)

have you looked in the mirror lately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here, fixed it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My complaint is that some atheists posters don't even bother to argue. Like PP, they go off on random tangents about Darwin, pretending that one example proves that atheists have a right to trash the Religion forum. Or something... I'm not even sure what the point of that was.

Maybe this poster just isn't very bright, and maybe he's under the illusion that he was actually making a cogent point... about something, who knows what. But I doubt it very much. I think it's more strategic: this poster doesn't want to have a real discussion, he just wants to infuriate people. If facts won't help him infuriate people, he reaches for the ad hominems and switches the subject via random tangents involving Darwin.

Signed,
A Christian who believes in evolution

it's infuriating to mention Darwin's dilemma?

Signed, An atheist who believed in evolution as a Christian and realizes that many Christians have no problem with evolution, but still identify with Christians who think evolution is bunk

It's infuriating when you resort to non sequiturs and random tangents (of which Darwin is just one example) when need to deflect and change the focus, because you have no valid points for why it's OK to trash religion.

It's one more sleazy debating tactic in your huge arsenal of ad hominems and logical fallacies.

But of course you already know this. (I think, unless you really did fail Logic 101.)

have you looked in the mirror lately?

QED....

[takoma]

Anonymous wrote:Penguin Six and Takoma were both thoughtful athiests that were interesting to discuss and debate religion with. But they haven't been around for a while.

One of them, I think Takoma, would actually take on the militant evangelical atheists.

Too bad for the athiests that they are gone. They were good ambassadors for you in presenting you as reasonable and respectful people of science and ideas, ane not the crazy, mean spirited radical zealots that the current crop of athiests appear to be.

I'm still here; just too lazy to sign in most of the time.

I did not notice this thread until now, but I might as well chime in. Although I would not call atheism a religion, not having a religion does not preclude an interest in why people believe and in the differences among those beliefs. That's why I enjoy some of the threads in this forum.

BTW, I thank PP for the kind words. One can believe in treating others as we would like to be treated even if we don't believe that idea comes from God. It may not be logical, but I think we are all brothers (and sisters) even if there is no God for us to be the children of.

[takoma]

Incidentally, I could just as well describe myself as believing in God as an indescribable entity (intelligence? force? being?) that is responsible for the cretion of the universe and the laws by which it runs -- God the prime mover. I further believe that this entity is so far beyond our ken that to think it walks with me and talks with me is incredibly self-aggrandizing.

So, if it makes anyone feel better about me, feel free to call me a deist rather than an atheist.

My point, in case it's not obvious, is that "God" means different things to different people, so I too can define "God" to be what I believe.