Post rankings of DCPS - % of advanced students in reading and math

[Anonymous]

The two-tiered nature of a school like Wilson gives me the creeps.

Why? The outward appearance?

[Anonymous]

Perhaps viewers of this forum need to look a little more into Wilson. Here's a link from the school's website. This particular article is a few years old but it's quite fascinating.

The website also includes the college choices for the class of 2008- 4 went to Yale, one to Stanford, one to Brown, one to Dartmouth, 1 to Penn, multiple to excellent state universities such as UVA/ UNC/ UCONN/ Wisconsin, etc. A number of students went to top notch liberal arts schools across the country.

There are many wonderful opportunities at Wilson if people are able to get past the hype. It's an amazingly diverse environment.

http://www.wilsonhs.org/pdf/05-06%20Brochure.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The two-tiered nature of a school like Wilson gives me the creeps.

Why? The outward appearance?

No, I think this poster from the DCUM/Wilson thread explained the segregated school within a school culture very well and it matches what I have heard from a number of other people. I don't actually want my child in an environment where only white kids take the advanced classes and minority kids think it's not cool to be smart and the perception (whether accurate or not) is that only the minorities are "disruptive."

The whole "white kids perform well there, so I should feel comfortable putting my kids in that school" attitude creeps me out. I want my kids in a school where there is an emphasis on white AND minority performance.

Here's the quote from the other thread:


This discussion has been amusing to me, a former Wilson student. I'm going to make some assumptions here: most of the people on these boards who are interested in knowing the quality/environment of Wilson are likely white and will likely push/encourage their children to take as many AP classes as possible. That means your children will likely have very little contact with the more disruptive populations of students at Wilson. It was true in my day (the mid-90s) and a pp mentioned that it is still true - the social worlds of the school are largely segregated by race. To put it bluntly and in un-PC terms, most of the students at Wilson that are causing the problems are not white. (You can go ahead and flame me - I'm black, I went there, I've known kids that have gone there after me, and I know that to be the truth.) That means your white AP students just aren't going to be in a lot of classes with the kids that are committing crimes - generally, those kids are going to stay away from the AP classes because it's just not cool to challenge yourself academically. So all of the concern about the environment at Wilson, the security at Wilson, the general behavior of the student body at Wilson in reality is not going to have as big an impact on your white AP student as you might think. While the overall picture of the school might at times be unflattering, if you're considering sending your white AP student there, that's the population whose experience you should focus on - not some crimes that were committed years ago or the antics of kids riding the Metro. If people with more recent knowledge of the school know that things have changed in this regard, please let us know.

[Anonymous]

I'm curious if other high schools that are public (not private) have a markedly different dynamic of 2 school than Wilson. Which schools (public highschools only please) are not segregrated by race? What schools have highest % of minority kids in AP?

[Anonymous]

12:47, I think you've made quite a leap in your "white kids do well so I'll send my kids there" statement. Those of us who plan to send our kids to Wilson (rather than finding a comfortable suburban HS where we can use Wilson's segregation as cover for our decision to flee the city) are paying close attention to how kids perform in DCPS and are interested when data suggests pockets of success that are ignored by the prevalent "DCPS sucks" attitude.

No one is happy about segregation, nor about the huge success-divide between white students and black/Hispanic students (although the divide is more likely about socio-economics than race); that said, it's pretty simplistic to suggest that the segregation at Wilson is fundamentally different than what happens at most high schools, where race and class tend to play a significant predictive role in how kids socialize and what classes they take. This is not just a Wilson problem; it's a societal problem. It happens to be more easily identifiable at Wilson, where the presence of an academy makes the divisions even more obvious. It also happens to be complicated by issues unique to urban school districts, where crime and poverty are more widespread and more intractable. It's easy to pat oneself on the back for being uncomfortable with segregation and disparities within a school; it's a lot harder to stick around and be part of the solution.

[Anonymous]

Wilson's internal segregation is something that all of us should care about, but fleeing to suburbs or to private schools is not the answer for everyone-- nor, I believe, is it the best way to teach our kids about integrated living. Oftentimes, moving out to a suburb with a great high school means living in a functionally segregated neighborhood, and then the high school is much less diverse. In MoCo, Blair is diverse but also has a "school within a school" culture/issue. SOme of the private schools are more diverse than public schools in very affluent neighborhoods, but many are not, and all pull the students away from a very economically diverse setting, the smattering of full scholarship students notwithstanding. Rejecting Wilson-- and sometimes even the city-- in favor of either a fancy suburban neighborhood or expensive private school on a gated campus does not solve the problem or provide a more "realistic" view of the diversity that our society has to offer. There are other choices-- including doing our part to close the achievement gap and foster greater interactions among students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious if other high schools that are public (not private) have a markedly different dynamic of 2 school than Wilson. Which schools (public highschools only please) are not segregrated by race? What schools have highest % of minority kids in AP?

Banneker and School without Walls are both excellent public magnet schools that are majority black (with a much higher percentage of black students than Wilson). I don't know what the racial dynamics are like within the schools but since everyone has to apply to get in (they're not coupled with a traditional school like Wilson), a white student is competing on the same level with black students. As for the percentages of minority students in AP, I don't know whether that is even meaningful in this case. Banneker doesn't have AP. It has an International Baccalaureate program.

[Anonymous]

pp I have always been curious about the demographic stats on Banneker and always wonder why there aren't more white families scrambling to get in there...it seems that some of the posters above are trying to justify the segregation at Wilson.

[Anonymous]

11:41, I don't think you've actually read what we said. We're not justifying segregation at Wilson. We're saying that leaving Wilson for the suburbs or private school because you find said segregation "creepy" isn't helping the problem. It's running away from it.

And I'm not "scrambling" to get my kids into BAnneker because Wilson is my neighborhood school. As with ES and MS, I will default to sending my kids to the neighborhood school unless there is some specific reason to make other arrangements. I think this is how most people, regardless of race, live their lives, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

One of the reasons for the segregation at Wilson (and at many DCPS elementary schools as well) is that well-educated and affluent black parents won't send their kids there. As a black parent who moved her kids from DCPS elementary to private middle school, and whose friends all did the same thing, we all anguish about our choice, but in the end, we're thankful to be able to give our children the best education we can. After all, that's our responsibility as parents. None of us wants our kid to be the one feeling like they don't fit in, or being called "oreo" for getting good grades, or worse, feeling physically unsafe. So, we swallow our guilt and do what's best for our kids. While I know Michelle Rhee has to focus on poor performing schools, the fact is, that until she finds a way to keep middle and upper-middle class families (of all races) in the school system, she's not going to be able to transform DCPS in a meaningful way. But politically, no one wants to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the reasons for the segregation at Wilson (and at many DCPS elementary schools as well) is that well-educated and affluent black parents won't send their kids there. As a black parent who moved her kids from DCPS elementary to private middle school, and whose friends all did the same thing, we all anguish about our choice, but in the end, we're thankful to be able to give our children the best education we can. After all, that's our responsibility as parents. None of us wants our kid to be the one feeling like they don't fit in, or being called "oreo" for getting good grades, or worse, feeling physically unsafe. So, we swallow our guilt and do what's best for our kids. While I know Michelle Rhee has to focus on poor performing schools, the fact is, that until she finds a way to keep middle and upper-middle class families (of all races) in the school system, she's not going to be able to transform DCPS in a meaningful way. But politically, no one wants to go there.

Many great points. Sobering, and well said.

As a white middle-class parent with a child in DCPS ES, I still hope that some of these needed changes at least start to happen before my child is ready for Wilson. There are so many reasons that I want public high school for her. Many have been stated on this thread, including that Wilson does in fact offer a variety of excellent educational opportunities such as APs. Mid five figures per year for high school seems obscene when there is still college to pay for. And frankly the private school threads on these boards have turned me off of the well-known private schools. Our family is fortunate to be able to make the choice, but it's a sad situation.

[Anonymous]

I'm the 12:06 poster, and thanks, PP. I too would have preferred to send my kids to public middle school. While they may be getting a good education in private, we do have to make sure we keep them grounded at home, and that they don't develop a sense of entitlement or superiority, or worse, inferiority. We are contantly vigilant about reminding them of how fortunate they are, how many others don't have the same opportunities, and dealing with a far less diverse student body than they have been used to. To say nothing of the cost. Frankly, I was thinking that college would be a big adjustments, but that's going to be a breeze!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the reasons for the segregation at Wilson (and at many DCPS elementary schools as well) is that well-educated and affluent black parents won't send their kids there. As a black parent who moved her kids from DCPS elementary to private middle school, and whose friends all did the same thing, we all anguish about our choice, but in the end, we're thankful to be able to give our children the best education we can. After all, that's our responsibility as parents. None of us wants our kid to be the one feeling like they don't fit in, or being called "oreo" for getting good grades, or worse, feeling physically unsafe. So, we swallow our guilt and do what's best for our kids. While I know Michelle Rhee has to focus on poor performing schools, the fact is, that until she finds a way to keep middle and upper-middle class families (of all races) in the school system, she's not going to be able to transform DCPS in a meaningful way. But politically, no one wants to go there.

You know, your post reminds me that I often wish parents would stop talking about diversity, even though I/we really value it. Sometimes I wonder if there was a laser-like, no excuses rigorous academic expectation coupled with an every-child-can-do-this approach, we'd all (black and white) be a lot better off. And, I wonder if DCPS schools became known for a rigorous education in every DCPS school, whether whites and high SES families of all colors would return/retain, and we'd all end up with more diverse schools.

Too often in DCPS I have heard parents or administrators point to diversity as an excuse for less than stellar academics achievement. I've also heard parents acknowledge making a trade off of weaker academics for better diversity, but that they will place their child there because they value diversity.

To be clear, I'm not saying that diversity is an undesired value, but I sometimes wonder if in the long term/end, we'd end up with better diversity if the focus was on stellar academics for everyone (all race/all socioeconomic status).

Pollyanna-ish perhaps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the reasons for the segregation at Wilson (and at many DCPS elementary schools as well) is that well-educated and affluent black parents won't send their kids there. As a black parent who moved her kids from DCPS elementary to private middle school, and whose friends all did the same thing, we all anguish about our choice, but in the end, we're thankful to be able to give our children the best education we can. After all, that's our responsibility as parents. None of us wants our kid to be the one feeling like they don't fit in, or being called "oreo" for getting good grades, or worse, feeling physically unsafe. So, we swallow our guilt and do what's best for our kids. While I know Michelle Rhee has to focus on poor performing schools, the fact is, that until she finds a way to keep middle and upper-middle class families (of all races) in the school system, she's not going to be able to transform DCPS in a meaningful way. But politically, no one wants to go there.

You know, your post reminds me that I often wish parents would stop talking about diversity, even though I/we really value it. Sometimes I wonder if there was a laser-like, no excuses rigorous academic expectation coupled with an every-child-can-do-this approach, we'd all (black and white) be a lot better off. And, I wonder if DCPS schools became known for a rigorous education in every DCPS school, whether whites and high SES families of all colors would return/retain, and we'd all end up with more diverse schools.

Too often in DCPS I have heard parents or administrators point to diversity as an excuse for less than stellar academics achievement. I've also heard parents acknowledge making a trade off of weaker academics for better diversity, but that they will place their child there because they value diversity.

To be clear, I'm not saying that diversity is an undesired value, but I sometimes wonder if in the long term/end, we'd end up with better diversity if the focus was on stellar academics for everyone (all race/all socioeconomic status).

Pollyanna-ish perhaps.

You make a really good point, and also summarize the goals behnd NCLB. Some people deride the law, but the fact is that it addresses exactly what you are talking about. Every single child in every single demographic group can succeed. It's a brilliant civil rights law, and I think that with the new president's help, prioritizing and funding schools, it can become Senator Kennedy's greatest legacy. Chancellor Rhee is on the record agreeing with everything you said, and has been focusing on closing the achievement gap.

I really believe that this is the top civil rights issue of our time, and that we must all demand that every school serve every child, and every parent push, and every child knows that achievement is a good thing, and attainable.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it matters if 35% are advanced or 25% so much as how many are in the Defecient category. If a significant number are in that category then your Advanced students will be less likely to get an "advanced" curriculum.