Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't prep my son. He is taking it today. It doesn't make sense to prep, because the workload is a lot more then GE (I know because my older son is in AAP, didn't prep). If your kid can't handle it, then it's much worse for their self esteem, and could make them hate school. My younger son I think is borderline, but maturity wise, he just isn't into homework and working hard yet -- he is only 7! I hope that in a few years he matures and is then ready for advanced classes in MS and HS.

Very sensible way to look at it!

Thanks. I worry about it though, after reading all the AAP stuff on this board. But, really, he gets cranky and fed up just with the little homework he has now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, when a child has seen the types of questions before, the test results don't give as much information as to how the child deals with problems he has never seen before. I'm not sure that two years before makes a huge difference though, since a test like the WISC can be taken once per year without the previous administration being considered to be an interference.

I am wondering about the importance of doing unusual types of problems that most kids have never seen before. Is it the most meaningful measure of potential success in AAP? What if, once shown how to do a certain type of problem, a child then excels beyond peers given the exact same introduction to the problem type? A child could excel at learning when actually taught, which most closely resembles the situation at school, but balk at solving problems of a completely new and unusual type. Or what if the child isn't an enthusiastic problem solver in general but is extremely creative in generating his/her own work, for example in writing, or is very astute at observing and analyzing social situations? Perhaps testing needs to encompass more than answering certain types of questions. At least the GBRS does address the ability to learn, creativity, and leadership.

Precisely why so many kids who would do great in AAP are still in GE. Perhaps they didn't quite meet the benchmark score needed, but their intelligence and abilities are identical (and sometimes greater) to those who did. A good argument for making AAP the standard GE curriculum, and creating a new curriculum for those kids who far exceed the benchmark and who honestly need further differentiation. Higher intelligence cannot be measured by one or two tests alone, especially taken at very young ages. There are many more indicators of above-average abilities, such as those you listed above.

If a child doesn't quite meet the benchmark, it is always possible to parent refer and have factors other than the test scores considered by the screening committee.

Not sure that all of GE, from fastest to slowest learners, could handle the AAP curriculum.

It seems that many bright, borderline kids who might have missed being included in AAP in the past have already been bumped up to AAP, judging from the large numbers admitted that people are always complaining about. A grey area 10 percent has already been added to the top 5 percent, to give the approximately 15 percent included.

I would support more levels: AAP, honors, and GE, more like in middle school. Choice of honors versus GE could be up to the parents and students.

Definitely true at our center. So many kids have been "bumped up" to AAP over the past year (due to parent appeals), that the GE classes have dwindled significantly. It's really becoming ridiculous that AAP kids now far outnumber GE in our 4th grade. Anyone who appeals can get their child in, making AAP pretty much meaningless for the kids who are at the highest end of the spectrum, and making GE very unappealing for the others. Several kids at our school have left for privates, rather than get stuck in GE where up to a third of the class are special needs. I thought GE was where the majority of kids were supposed to be educated. Something is very skewed with the current system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Definitely true at our center. So many kids have been "bumped up" to AAP over the past year (due to parent appeals), that the GE classes have dwindled significantly. It's really becoming ridiculous that AAP kids now far outnumber GE in our 4th grade. Anyone who appeals can get their child in, making AAP pretty much meaningless for the kids who are at the highest end of the spectrum, and making GE very unappealing for the others. Several kids at our school have left for privates, rather than get stuck in GE where up to a third of the class are special needs. I thought GE was where the majority of kids were supposed to be educated. Something is very skewed with the current system.

Do you think that a system of AAP, honors, and GE (with the choice between honors and GE up to the individual families) would help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely true at our center. So many kids have been "bumped up" to AAP over the past year (due to parent appeals), that the GE classes have dwindled significantly. It's really becoming ridiculous that AAP kids now far outnumber GE in our 4th grade. Anyone who appeals can get their child in, making AAP pretty much meaningless for the kids who are at the highest end of the spectrum, and making GE very unappealing for the others. Several kids at our school have left for privates, rather than get stuck in GE where up to a third of the class are special needs. I thought GE was where the majority of kids were supposed to be educated. Something is very skewed with the current system.

Do you think that a system of AAP, honors, and GE (with the choice between honors and GE up to the individual families) would help?

I do. Something has got to be done so that all the kids are having their needs met, whatever those needs happen to be.

[Anonymous]

Class size reductions seem to help in other school systems. No need for all these separate schools when the teacher can properly differentiate in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

At least the kids were being honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Class size reductions seem to help in other school systems. No need for all these separate schools when the teacher can properly differentiate in the classroom.

We would need more capacity. No more classrooms to have more separate classes, and the class sizes keep growing.

[Anonymous]

So to deal with the larger class sizes, the classes themselves may need to be more differentiated by level. Within-class differentiation becomes more difficult as class sizes grow. Teachers have stated this.

[Anonymous]

I would love to see a chart of test scores correlated to which kids raised their hands. If I were the classroom teacher, it would be interesting to see this chart and compare the information to how I see the kids learning in class each day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I would love to see a chart of test scores correlated to which kids raised their hands. If I were the classroom teacher, it would be interesting to see this chart and compare the information to how I see the kids learning in class each day.

+1

[Anonymous]

I seriously doubt the validity of this test. You are actually thinking that asking a 7 or 8 year old if they have seen questions like these outside of school is being noted as some gospel of truth to be used to sway a GBRS or other mark in the kid's file as to his/her ability? A kid has no idea if he/she has been prepped or not unless the parent says you're being prepped. My own kids have admitted to things they didn't do and they did do because they are kids! (Once mine said she put the fridge on the coldest setting when I angrily asked who did it - she was in the middle of her time out when my husband comes downstairs and says it was him. She was SEVEN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I seriously doubt the validity of this test. You are actually thinking that asking a 7 or 8 year old if they have seen questions like these outside of school is being noted as some gospel of truth to be used to sway a GBRS or other mark in the kid's file as to his/her ability? A kid has no idea if he/she has been prepped or not unless the parent says you're being prepped. My own kids have admitted to things they didn't do and they did do because they are kids! (Once mine said she put the fridge on the coldest setting when I angrily asked who did it - she was in the middle of her time out when my husband comes downstairs and says it was him. She was SEVEN.

I meant validity of the post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I seriously doubt the validity of this test. You are actually thinking that asking a 7 or 8 year old if they have seen questions like these outside of school is being noted as some gospel of truth to be used to sway a GBRS or other mark in the kid's file as to his/her ability? A kid has no idea if he/she has been prepped or not unless the parent says you're being prepped. My own kids have admitted to things they didn't do and they did do because they are kids! (Once mine said she put the fridge on the coldest setting when I angrily asked who did it - she was in the middle of her time out when my husband comes downstairs and says it was him. She was SEVEN.

I meant validity of the post.

+1 that the kids' reporting may not be accurate. The kids may not have known that they were being asked about something perceived as negative by the school and may have thought they would get brownie points for saying they had seen questions like that before. They may have thought it was a casual question, like if they were starting a unit on Siberian tigers and the teacher asked, "How many of you have seen a Siberian tiger before?" Hands might shoot up -- "I have! I have!" -- even if it wasn't quite accurate.

I doubt that the assistant principal was planning any particular action, even if the question was asked as stated. Maybe the AP just wanted to get a general sense of how much prepping may have gone on, out of curiosity. I don't think that kids could be penalized for doing something that their parents asked them to do, and there would be no way for the AP to prove what children's scores would have been without the prepping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I seriously doubt the validity of this test. You are actually thinking that asking a 7 or 8 year old if they have seen questions like these outside of school is being noted as some gospel of truth to be used to sway a GBRS or other mark in the kid's file as to his/her ability? A kid has no idea if he/she has been prepped or not unless the parent says you're being prepped. My own kids have admitted to things they didn't do and they did do because they are kids! (Once mine said she put the fridge on the coldest setting when I angrily asked who did it - she was in the middle of her time out when my husband comes downstairs and says it was him. She was SEVEN.

I meant validity of the post.

+1 that the kids' reporting may not be accurate. The kids may not have known that they were being asked about something perceived as negative by the school and may have thought they would get brownie points for saying they had seen questions like that before. They may have thought it was a casual question, like if they were starting a unit on Siberian tigers and the teacher asked, "How many of you have seen a Siberian tiger before?" Hands might shoot up -- "I have! I have!" -- even if it wasn't quite accurate.

I doubt that the assistant principal was planning any particular action, even if the question was asked as stated. Maybe the AP just wanted to get a general sense of how much prepping may have gone on, out of curiosity. I don't think that kids could be penalized for doing something that their parents asked them to do, and there would be no way for the AP to prove what children's scores would have been without the prepping.

Finally someone is making sense here....... Not sure why people are so paranoid as if they committed a big crime.

[Anonymous]

....

Definitely true at our center. So many kids have been "bumped up" to AAP over the past year (due to parent appeals), that the GE classes have dwindled significantly. It's really becoming ridiculous that AAP kids now far outnumber GE in our 4th grade. Anyone who appeals can get their child in, making AAP pretty much meaningless for the kids who are at the highest end of the spectrum, and making GE very unappealing for the others. Several kids at our school have left for privates, rather than get stuck in GE where up to a third of the class are special needs. I thought GE was where the majority of kids were supposed to be educated. Something is very skewed with the current system.

Who told you that anyone who appeals can get their kids in? I know many parents (especially this year) who did not manage to "get their kids in" on appeal. In my DS's school (Center), the appeals round generated only a handful of new entries (single-digit), and those few who made it in on appeal had fantastic WISC scores. The ones who had just good WISC scores, stayed at GE. Actually, the AAPRT herself told us that the kids who get in on appeal usually do better at AAP than the ones who get in during the first round, because the appeals kids are doubled-screened (NNAT/CogAT plus WISC). Without a great WISC score no one makes it on appeal. So, it's not the appeals that overcrowd the AAP classes, it's the helicopter parents who work the teachers to get their kids high GBRSs and usually make it in the first round. For the record, DS made it in the first round with good scores and decent GBRS, but his best friend, a highly talented boy with high scores but low GBRS, had to submit a stellar WISC to get in. According to DS, his friend's now doing much better than anyone else in his class...