Would you recommend a legal career?

[Anonymous]

DH is a gov't lawyer and loves it. I'm a SAHM who can't wait til SN little one is old enough and in a school with the right after care so that I can get back to the law ... also in government. However, I never liked my brief stint with firms and would not like to go back there. Sometimes, the office environment plays a greater role in job satisfaction than the job title. I couldn't stand billable hours. Now, I just couldn't do firm hours at all. DS's needs are too great for those long hours. When the time comes, I'll look exclusively for work as a gov't lawyer.

[Anonymous]

I went to law school 30 years ago but got out a decade ago for another profession. No regrets whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just read that New Republic article on Big Law. Seems like an awful environment to work in. The laid off attorney who was making $200K plus and now making $40K doing criminal defense in a small town said she's had to make life adjustments, but could never go back to Big Law.

I also found the business model interesting. I mean, you spend all this time learning to be a lawyer, but are never good at what is necessary to keep the money coming, i.e. cultivating and managing clients.

+1000. My dad has his own business, and after watching him I knew I never wanted to do that. Naively, I did not realize that being a partner (or a solo) involves nearly all the same issues. And working as an associate means working for people with management jobs who did not train to be managers and may or may not be good ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who goes on to do trial work in the state and county systems, where the rubber hits the road so to speak?

I think local connections really help in starting out in county/state courts. Most lawyers I've found with a healthy practice in those courts went to law school in that state, did decently, did internships with prosecutor's offices or clerkships with local judges. In criminal law, they often start in the prosecutor's office and then switch to defense after they've learned the ropes. But I've also seen defense attorneys who went straight into defense private practice out of school. The successful ones usually had a good mentor who helped them. It also helps if you have a niche.

So, there you go. Why so much emphasis on HYP Law and trying to get to BigLaw when there are real needs to be met and served at the state and county levels with smaller firms or in solo practice?

I am originally from Florida, and just looking at the list of the University of Florida Levin School of Law alumni list, there are quite a number of graduates who have gone on to illustrious careers in academia, business and government, including 4 U.S. Senators, 15 Representatives, 4 Governors, any number of states attorneys general, U.S. Ambassadors, the U.S. Trade Representative and any number of Federal judges.

I am not an attorney, but I counsel students on career choices all of the time, and the most common piece of advice I give is to constantly think outside the box, broaden your horizons within your chosen profession and be willing to take risks that will differentiate you from virtually everyone else in you field.

It just seems to me, at least on this board, that there is a lot of narrow thinking about legal careers and that the best jobs for lawyers are at the big NYC, Chicago, firms, etc., when in fact there is quite a universe of career paths out there by which one can be successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


It just seems to me, at least on this board, that there is a lot of narrow thinking about legal careers and that the best jobs for lawyers are at the big NYC, Chicago, firms, etc., when in fact there is quite a universe of career paths out there by which one can be successful.

Everything - it's the DMV way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who goes on to do trial work in the state and county systems, where the rubber hits the road so to speak?

I think local connections really help in starting out in county/state courts. Most lawyers I've found with a healthy practice in those courts went to law school in that state, did decently, did internships with prosecutor's offices or clerkships with local judges. In criminal law, they often start in the prosecutor's office and then switch to defense after they've learned the ropes. But I've also seen defense attorneys who went straight into defense private practice out of school. The successful ones usually had a good mentor who helped them. It also helps if you have a niche.

So, there you go. Why so much emphasis on HYP Law and trying to get to BigLaw when there are real needs to be met and served at the state and county levels with smaller firms or in solo practice?

I am originally from Florida, and just looking at the list of the University of Florida Levin School of Law alumni list, there are quite a number of graduates who have gone on to illustrious careers in academia, business and government, including 4 U.S. Senators, 15 Representatives, 4 Governors, any number of states attorneys general, U.S. Ambassadors, the U.S. Trade Representative and any number of Federal judges.

I am not an attorney, but I counsel students on career choices all of the time, and the most common piece of advice I give is to constantly think outside the box, broaden your horizons within your chosen profession and be willing to take risks that will differentiate you from virtually everyone else in you field.

It just seems to me, at least on this board, that there is a lot of narrow thinking about legal careers and that the best jobs for lawyers are at the big NYC, Chicago, firms, etc., when in fact there is quite a universe of career paths out there by which one can be successful.

Because it's very difficult to pay back crushing law school debt working for the state, the county, or working for a solo who pays $40K and no benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

Your school matters very little at 10 years out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

Your school matters very little at 10 years out.

Maybe, but the connections you make in law school, esp the better ones, still matter 10 years out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

Your school matters very little at 10 years out.

I agree with this for the most part. Top schools probably matter for Big Law for your entire career. Many of the attorneys have advised working for the government, and where one went to law school doesn't matter much there. I went to a tier 4 school 10 years ago, and I've been consistently employed since. I worked for a brief period at a mid-sized law firm. I knew early on it wasn't for me. I started at the entry level at my agency, but I'm a GS-15 now.

I'm the Chief Attorney in my section, and I'm routinely on hiring committees. I don't give much weight to where someone went to law school. I'm much more interested in personality, work ethic, and prior experience. If you're an insufferable douchebag, feel too entitled to do grunt work, and haven't even done basic research on the practice areas in my agency, then grades, law review, and school rank don't matter.

I would recommend law students extern for an agency to gain contacts and practical experience. I did this and it resulted in a job with the agency. We hire law students as paralegals at my agency, and they have been moderately successful in finding work. I would also recommend trying to limit debt to federal loans. If you get a low-paying entry-level job, then you can participate in the income-based loan repayment program. Your payments will be low, and the government will pay-off the remaining balance in 10 years.

I think the advice regarding law school rank is mostly fueled by struggling attorneys who went to high ranking law schools. In their mind, law school rank is very important. If they are struggling, then students who went to lower ranked schools must really be struggling. For the public sector, this isn't necessarily the case. Many of the attorneys in the public sector went to lower ranked schools. When they are now doing the hiring, they aren't swayed by school prestige.

[Anonymous]

no. Fed GS 15 and stuck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

gtown is t14. and you graduated in 2003. surely you would've been pretty set given the timing. 3-4 years in Big law and move over to inhouse or gov? Would've meant u would've made your move before the crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

Your school matters very little at 10 years out.

I agree with this for the most part. Top schools probably matter for Big Law for your entire career. Many of the attorneys have advised working for the government, and where one went to law school doesn't matter much there. I went to a tier 4 school 10 years ago, and I've been consistently employed since. I worked for a brief period at a mid-sized law firm. I knew early on it wasn't for me. I started at the entry level at my agency, but I'm a GS-15 now.

I'm the Chief Attorney in my section, and I'm routinely on hiring committees. I don't give much weight to where someone went to law school. I'm much more interested in personality, work ethic, and prior experience. If you're an insufferable douchebag, feel too entitled to do grunt work, and haven't even done basic research on the practice areas in my agency, then grades, law review, and school rank don't matter.

I would recommend law students extern for an agency to gain contacts and practical experience. I did this and it resulted in a job with the agency. We hire law students as paralegals at my agency, and they have been moderately successful in finding work. I would also recommend trying to limit debt to federal loans. If you get a low-paying entry-level job, then you can participate in the income-based loan repayment program. Your payments will be low, and the government will pay-off the remaining balance in 10 years.

I think the advice regarding law school rank is mostly fueled by struggling attorneys who went to high ranking law schools. In their mind, law school rank is very important. If they are struggling, then students who went to lower ranked schools must really be struggling. For the public sector, this isn't necessarily the case. Many of the attorneys in the public sector went to lower ranked schools. When they are now doing the hiring, they aren't swayed by school prestige.

"The Government" is too large of an entity. Working at DOJ, State, FTC, etc. is different than being a HHS or SSA attorney and they hire from way different law schools. Those in this thread that just throw out 'gov' should be more accurate in saying what agency are bigger prestige whores and which agencies are not. That would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

Your school matters very little at 10 years out.

I agree with this for the most part. Top schools probably matter for Big Law for your entire career. Many of the attorneys have advised working for the government, and where one went to law school doesn't matter much there. I went to a tier 4 school 10 years ago, and I've been consistently employed since. I worked for a brief period at a mid-sized law firm. I knew early on it wasn't for me. I started at the entry level at my agency, but I'm a GS-15 now.

I'm the Chief Attorney in my section, and I'm routinely on hiring committees. I don't give much weight to where someone went to law school. I'm much more interested in personality, work ethic, and prior experience. If you're an insufferable douchebag, feel too entitled to do grunt work, and haven't even done basic research on the practice areas in my agency, then grades, law review, and school rank don't matter.

I would recommend law students extern for an agency to gain contacts and practical experience. I did this and it resulted in a job with the agency. We hire law students as paralegals at my agency, and they have been moderately successful in finding work. I would also recommend trying to limit debt to federal loans. If you get a low-paying entry-level job, then you can participate in the income-based loan repayment program. Your payments will be low, and the government will pay-off the remaining balance in 10 years.

I think the advice regarding law school rank is mostly fueled by struggling attorneys who went to high ranking law schools. In their mind, law school rank is very important. If they are struggling, then students who went to lower ranked schools must really be struggling. For the public sector, this isn't necessarily the case. Many of the attorneys in the public sector went to lower ranked schools. When they are now doing the hiring, they aren't swayed by school prestige.

I agree. My husband went to a T3 school and has been consistently employed (without great grades, either - but personable, "whatever it takes" attitude, and relevant niche experience) since graduation. The ranking push is largely done by recent grads of the top schools. Unless you went to a big-NAME school (Harvard etc), your 20s vs 30s vs 50s rank will mean nothing, especially the further out of school you get. Many doing the hiring don't even know the tiers exist. I'm sure my DH's in-house boss didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can go to a top law school, be top of your class, and get prestigious clerkships, you will have a stimulating, exciting, rewarding career in private practice, government, and/or academia. If not, I think it would be unwise to go to law school. There is a lot of terribly boring legal work to be done, and a glut of lawyers for even the undesirable jobs. If I had to do insurance defense work for a living, for example, I would want to slit my wrists.

This. I graduated middle of my class at georgetown ten years ago and it has been a rocky road (have been employed for most of it but unemployed now). My friends who went to Harvard yale etc have managed to get great jobs at doj, state, etc. that is much harder to do the less prestigious your school and record are.

Your school matters very little at 10 years out.

I agree with this for the most part. Top schools probably matter for Big Law for your entire career. Many of the attorneys have advised working for the government, and where one went to law school doesn't matter much there. I went to a tier 4 school 10 years ago, and I've been consistently employed since. I worked for a brief period at a mid-sized law firm. I knew early on it wasn't for me. I started at the entry level at my agency, but I'm a GS-15 now.

I'm the Chief Attorney in my section, and I'm routinely on hiring committees. I don't give much weight to where someone went to law school. I'm much more interested in personality, work ethic, and prior experience. If you're an insufferable douchebag, feel too entitled to do grunt work, and haven't even done basic research on the practice areas in my agency, then grades, law review, and school rank don't matter.

I would recommend law students extern for an agency to gain contacts and practical experience. I did this and it resulted in a job with the agency. We hire law students as paralegals at my agency, and they have been moderately successful in finding work. I would also recommend trying to limit debt to federal loans. If you get a low-paying entry-level job, then you can participate in the income-based loan repayment program. Your payments will be low, and the government will pay-off the remaining balance in 10 years.

I think the advice regarding law school rank is mostly fueled by struggling attorneys who went to high ranking law schools. In their mind, law school rank is very important. If they are struggling, then students who went to lower ranked schools must really be struggling. For the public sector, this isn't necessarily the case. Many of the attorneys in the public sector went to lower ranked schools. When they are now doing the hiring, they aren't swayed by school prestige.

"The Government" is too large of an entity. Working at DOJ, State, FTC, etc. is different than being a HHS or SSA attorney and they hire from way different law schools. Those in this thread that just throw out 'gov' should be more accurate in saying what agency are bigger prestige whores and which agencies are not. That would be helpful.

Do you mean different in that they have different hiring practices? Tier 4 grad here. I worked on a detail to DOJ as a SAUSA. I believe their honors program is more competitive, but being hired as a lateral isn't school dependent. Many of the attorneys from my agency have taken positions at DOJ. These attorneys had specialized experience, but didn't attend top ranked schools. For all but a few agencies, law school rank wouldn't matter much; however, specialized experience would matter.

Regarding the type of work and pay, much of the work is the same. Of course DOJ is litigation focused, but they are an identified support agency for many others. If you look at most legal offices, they will be practicing govt ethics, labor, environmental, procurement, and then the agency specific practice. Many practice before specialized administrative boards. Most working on the GS pay schedule, though some agencies have specialized pay banding. I believe Postal, Transportation, Treasury, Homeland Security, and DoD don't care much about school rank.