s/o Gifted classes in DC schools

[Anonymous]

So if most parents want what I have, they want good, in-classroom differentiation--not a gifted program.

Actually, I wanted a gifted program, but that will never, ever happen in DCPS. We're at Murch. We can't waste any more time with DS's education and we'll be moving him for middle school to one of two private schools (not just any old private, but the two that I know will kick his butt), or Montgomery County. We will also look at BASIS, I suppose.

[Anonymous]

We just looked at BASIS. What we found is a cave-like building, no gym, no stage, no decent music or art room. Dim, loud, bare hallways in which loads of kids shove and trip one another. Very young teachers and admins in there, looking a bit over-whelmed. Many kids fidgety and distracted seeming in one class after another (trying to absorb dry material obviously over the heads of a good half).

My kid has attended Johns Hopkins CTY, where he has no trouble keeping up with classmates bound for MoC HGCs (Centers for Highly Gifted, 4th-5th grades). We're not sure where to head for 5th grade and beyond. We don't want to move to the burbs, don't like the idea of DC being with pampered kids at privates (or jeopardizing our college and retirement savings by sending him), and doubt Latin would differentiate enough. Also, we don't see serious sports at either Latin or BASIS for an athletic child and fierce competitor, and don't like Latin's down-heel new neighborhood. Yea, we're too picky, snooty, whatever.

I don't see GT programs coming in with Gray/Henderson. Rhee used to talk about her desire to introduce them, starting in Ward 8. Henderson doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the reason why DCPS will continue to fail. They need a school for troubled youth and a school (or at least classes) for more advanced students. To ignore that children have different needs is to fail every single one of them.

well . . . it depends what you mean by "fail." It is not like DCPS is going out of business. Taxpayers will continue to pay millions of dollars every year. You may not like what the $$ are going for (no G&T, wahh!), but that does not mean the spigot will ever turn off. So, "fail" in that you will not send your child there . . . but DCPS will go on and on and on and not really give a damn if you are there or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are many of us with advanced learners in DCPS who are making it work. My children are at Brent, and we are hoping to get into Latin for middle school and high school. My oldest is in 3rd now. He does have a few friends leaving Brent, and I think the parents concerns are around challenge. Fortunately, my bright child is being challenged and loves going to school. His reading level is the equivalent of the end of 4th grade (so one grade ahead), and in his racially diverse class, he is in the middle ability reading group. His teacher told me his reading level, but the info on which reading group is from him (so possibly inaccurate). We have been happy with the ability grouping, and haven't felt the need for more than we've had.

No offense, but the way you describe your child doesn't really sound like an "advanced learner." On the other hand, if you are happy with your child's education, that is a great thing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah there's a lot of the lake woebegone effect with parents who think their little darling is gifted. And maybe she is but if she's in the top 10% of her cohort not the top 3-5%. They had to create a special AAP forum on this board just for parents to kvetch about it.

Again what is your point?? I think you are delusional if you don't think that kids who fall in the top 10% can be years ahead of other kids in a classroom, especially if the class has a significant number of students who are years behind grade level which is common in DC. If a kid, even in the top 10%, is able to work hard and succeed in advanced classes then the more the merrier in my book. Why drag them down too since the bottom line is that it is only natural for a teacher to focus the bulk of her attention on struggling students and only give lip service the rest.

what I'm saying is that in gifted programs there is a finite amount of spots, there is not a "more the merrier" mentality. And often parents overestimate how smart their children are and get butthurt when their kid doesn't make the cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many of us with advanced learners in DCPS who are making it work. My children are at Brent, and we are hoping to get into Latin for middle school and high school. My oldest is in 3rd now. He does have a few friends leaving Brent, and I think the parents concerns are around challenge. Fortunately, my bright child is being challenged and loves going to school. His reading level is the equivalent of the end of 4th grade (so one grade ahead), and in his racially diverse class, he is in the middle ability reading group. His teacher told me his reading level, but the info on which reading group is from him (so possibly inaccurate). We have been happy with the ability grouping, and haven't felt the need for more than we've had.

No offense, but the way you describe your child doesn't really sound like an "advanced learner." On the other hand, if you are happy with your child's education, that is a great thing!

PP, we need more of you in DCUM. Smart, objective, and kind

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was in a highly regarded, rigorous gifted program in grades 6-12. It was great but also isolating and homogenizing. I don't believe for an instant that it was the only way to challenge high-achieving students.

Today, I have two advanced learners at a JKLM school. The older one is three grade levels ahead in reading and mastering all of the math concepts; the younger one has been identified as working ahead of most of his peers. We are quite pleased with the within-classroom differentiation, and my kids are happy and challenged.

They also enjoy the social aspects of school--some of their closest friends are kids from their classes who are not in the advanced groups. I like that they aren't penned in with other like kids.

I expect that Deal and Wilson will also meet their needs, in part because there will continue to be a critical mass of kids who are learning at an advanced pace. I believe that DCPS will work for us and other families in the upper NW cluster.

But I agree with other posters about the broader problem in DCPS--that access to this sort of strong differentiation (which benefits kids at all levels) is largely limited to those with enough money to live in the wealthier parts of the city or enough luck to get into one of the better schools or charters via lottery.

A citywide gifted program isn't going to solve the real problem, which is that there is no systemwide solution for ensuring that all children are taught and challenged at appropriate levels.

+1. My children have finished at a JKLM school and were always 2-3 years ahead in reading and math, but I don't know that I would label my knids gifted in the true definition. Deal is certainly meeting their needs. When we first visited Deal it was explained that the majority of the classes are taught above grade level and that they make every effort to push students on the cusp to reach a higher level. I always find it interesting that this conversation of having gifted and talented in DC occurs mostly with elementary school families. The truth is that by the time you get to 8th grade (at least at Deal) the work is incredibly demanding and truly far ahead of anything I remember at that age. Your kids maybe advanced in elementary years, but there is no guarantee that this sticks all the way through. Kids also need to have the motivation to want to excel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a highly regarded, rigorous gifted program in grades 6-12. It was great but also isolating and homogenizing. I don't believe for an instant that it was the only way to challenge high-achieving students.

Today, I have two advanced learners at a JKLM school. The older one is three grade levels ahead in reading and mastering all of the math concepts; the younger one has been identified as working ahead of most of his peers. We are quite pleased with the within-classroom differentiation, and my kids are happy and challenged.

They also enjoy the social aspects of school--some of their closest friends are kids from their classes who are not in the advanced groups. I like that they aren't penned in with other like kids.

I expect that Deal and Wilson will also meet their needs, in part because there will continue to be a critical mass of kids who are learning at an advanced pace. I believe that DCPS will work for us and other families in the upper NW cluster.

But I agree with other posters about the broader problem in DCPS--that access to this sort of strong differentiation (which benefits kids at all levels) is largely limited to those with enough money to live in the wealthier parts of the city or enough luck to get into one of the better schools or charters via lottery.

A citywide gifted program isn't going to solve the real problem, which is that there is no systemwide solution for ensuring that all children are taught and challenged at appropriate levels.

+1. My children have finished at a JKLM school and were always 2-3 years ahead in reading and math, but I don't know that I would label my knids gifted in the true definition. Deal is certainly meeting their needs. When we first visited Deal it was explained that the majority of the classes are taught above grade level and that they make every effort to push students on the cusp to reach a higher level. I always find it interesting that this conversation of having gifted and talented in DC occurs mostly with elementary school families. The truth is that by the time you get to 8th grade (at least at Deal) the work is incredibly demanding and truly far ahead of anything I remember at that age. Your kids maybe advanced in elementary years, but there is no guarantee that this sticks all the way through. Kids also need to have the motivation to want to excel.

You do realize that Deal is not an option for most families in DC?

[Anonymous]

OP here. After reading through this thread I think maybe the real issue is not the lack of gifted classes but the fact that too many classes are not even being taught at grade level. It seems that the majority of parents would be content with just standard classes if the remedial students were pulled out and given the signficant amount of attention they need to get to grade level. But its also pretty pathetic that as parents our expectations are so low of DCPS that we just wish that at a minimum they would teach at current grade level. Pie in the sky is anything beyond that. Im intrigued by Catanias proposal to allow for more kids to be held back and I plan to email him that I support that. His rationale is that poor black kids are being hurt by the system but truth is, high SES, high achieving students are being hurt as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. After reading through this thread I think maybe the real issue is not the lack of gifted classes but the fact that too many classes are not even being taught at grade level. It seems that the majority of parents would be content with just standard classes if the remedial students were pulled out and given the signficant amount of attention they need to get to grade level. But its also pretty pathetic that as parents our expectations are so low of DCPS that we just wish that at a minimum they would teach at current grade level. Pie in the sky is anything beyond that. Im intrigued by Catanias proposal to allow for more kids to be held back and I plan to email him that I support that. His rationale is that poor black kids are being hurt by the system but truth is, high SES, high achieving students are being hurt as well.

OP, as earlier posters mentioned, you don't seem to have familiarity with extent of the complexity of what you call "gifted classes". You also seem to assume high SES families don't have kids who need remediation. As to retention, it must sound like a perfect solution to someone who hasn't been told it's their child who'll be repeating. Nor do you seem interested in having intellectually gifted students of any class or race unless they are very, very well-behaved. The 2E (twice exceptional) folks might have a thing or two to say about that.

[Anonymous]

High SES parent here -- if my DC doesn't master the ybject matter, i will get a tutor and expect DC to take summer school. What is school for? No one should be promoted just because of age.

[Anonymous]

^^ wow, please excuse my typos!

[Anonymous]

agree wtih 11:25. If my kid can't do the work, I don't want them to just be passed along year after year. I am familiar with gifted classes as I was tracked in them growing up. As I stated earlier, I have no idea if my kid is gifted or will need remediation etc. I know that as a concerned parent I will do whatever it takes to get my kid the help and education they need. Thats the difference. If my kid is years behind, I don't expect the teacher to slow the class down to manage my kid. thats not fair to other kids. Again, at a minimum DCPS needs classes to be taught at grade level. How is it helping a kid to keep promoting them year after year? We get a lot of the "DC Summer Youth" teens in our office for work every summer. It would shock you if you could see what I see. 17 year olds who can't write basic sentences, almost no reading comprehension. And yet everyone celebrates them graduating. THey aren't even prepared for UDC. So at the end of the day, the slower kids aren't learning and the faster kids aren't learning anything new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. After reading through this thread I think maybe the real issue is not the lack of gifted classes but the fact that too many classes are not even being taught at grade level. It seems that the majority of parents would be content with just standard classes if the remedial students were pulled out and given the signficant amount of attention they need to get to grade level. But its also pretty pathetic that as parents our expectations are so low of DCPS that we just wish that at a minimum they would teach at current grade level. Pie in the sky is anything beyond that. Im intrigued by Catanias proposal to allow for more kids to be held back and I plan to email him that I support that. His rationale is that poor black kids are being hurt by the system but truth is, high SES, high achieving students are being hurt as well.

You do know that not all high SES children are academically high achievers. And not all poor Black kids, low academically performing kids. What will you say when you move into the burbs and your high SES kid is not selected for that GT program you think he/she is destined for admittance. What is she, 2 yoa now?

[Anonymous]

Intelligence and wealth do not necessarily correlate. High intelligence can help get one wealthy but that's about it. There are kids born into wealthy families who aren't that bright, just as there are highly intelligent kids born into poor families. The problem is that there currently are very few options even for highly intelligent kids born to poor families. They might not be in-bounds for Deal, their parents might not even have the wherewithal to figure out to try and get them into a good charter or other option.