Why do people hate Yu Ying and Basis so much?

[Anonymous]

I will always hate YY for their brazen policy of ordering wait-lists by application date/time. (Stokes too.)

I understand that YY wants to make sure they have committed parents/families ... but their waitlist procedures has the INTENTIONAL counter-effect of discouraging families not of wealthy means.

I'll respect YY and Stokes when for wait-list purposes, they give folks one week to turn in their applications, and randomize those applications. Then put any further applications in date/time order.

Until then, I will always say terrible things about those two charters. They are doing nothing to improve the education of our city's children except cherry-picking kids. Their coveted public charter board Tier 1 awards should come with asterisks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Looks like we got it. I am a Basis parent who is all in favor of attrition, who wants a better education for dcs than she had herself at a DC private, and believes Basis is actually better than privates or any other schools in the area. And we are done. Sibling preference and goes thru 12th grade. My kids will be there at the end, and they will be in good company. Especially having recently read one of the threads about trying to get kids into gifted and talented programs in Fairfax etc, so glad we are done. Only upset about giving up the opportunity for a larger house outside of DC, but completely worth the sacrifice. Call me out on my intellectual elitism, my selfishness, etc, but not on my honesty.

From my perspective, I have no problem with your goals in a vacuum, but feel that it is a corruption of the role of Charter schools. Selective schools should either be created by DCPS or left in the realm of private schools. Charters are supposed to serve all comers and provide opportunities to those who local schools are unsatisfactory. They are not supposed to save elite families the cost of private school tuition.

What about Roots charter school that makes it selective. It is a charter school that is open to all children in the District of Columbia. Just as YY is centered around Chinese culture through its teaching, Roots is centered around African culture (don't know which African country) through its teaching. Roots, like Lamb, DC Bilingual, YY is not a selective school. And I don't get why people like you continue to place it in the same category as selective.

I'm really puzzled by this statement, Jeff, because I don't think you actually mean this. Do you have a problem with St. Coletta's, the charter that serves an exclusively special-needs population? Do you have a problem with Options, one of the oldest charters in the city, which serves a high-risk student body population that has not been able to succeed in traditional schools? What about Roots? From the very beginning of the charter school movement, charters have been developed, approved and operated to serve specific sub-sets of the city school age population. And yet you really seem only to object when the specific sub-set is better educated or more advanced than the average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With regard to YY, I'm not a hater, but we will decline a spot if offered (and DH did stand in line at the crack of dawn). I find it very off-putting that at the various events (charter expo, open house) there have never been any parents or educators there to answer questions. And when I've asked existing parents, some (admittedly, not all) have said, "If you have questions, then go somewhere else. There are enough people who want the slot that we don't have to explain ourselves to you." We all take our children's education seriously, and committing to mandarin is a big deal (as YY families always warn on here), so I think it is entirely appropriate that I may have questions for the principal/teachers/parents. I did not appreciate the fact that when I have availed myself of opportunities to learn about the school, those questions have gone unanswered, sometimes with a very obnoxious reply.

Something tells me you're not such a sweetie pie yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will always hate YY for their brazen policy of ordering wait-lists by application date/time. (Stokes too.)

I understand that YY wants to make sure they have committed parents/families ... but their waitlist procedures has the INTENTIONAL counter-effect of discouraging families not of wealthy means.

I'll respect YY and Stokes when for wait-list purposes, they give folks one week to turn in their applications, and randomize those applications. Then put any further applications in date/time order.

Until then, I will always say terrible things about those two charters. They are doing nothing to improve the education of our city's children except cherry-picking kids. Their coveted public charter board Tier 1 awards should come with asterisks.

By your standards, the entire lottery system, both DCPS OOB and charter, discourages families not of wealthy means. I mean, how is a single parent who works a wage job with no time off going to go to all the open houses, which either require taking time off or getting evening childcare? How can he or she make a solid pick-six without going on tours, and testing out the commute, all of which are much more time-consuming than getting to a computer at 8 am for half an hour? It is correct that the lottery system favors the wealthy and the well-connected, who have the time and energy to research and make endless commutes. But to single out the waitlist order at Yu Ying and Stokes as elitist is a perfect example of cherry-picking.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I find a charter that caters to academically-advanced kids (to the exclusion of slower kids), to be problematic because of the current setup of the per-pupil funding system.

I strongly suspect that higher achievers are cheaper to teach than are.kids who are disruptive or who need lots of remedial one-on-one work. So if Basis is getting $10K/student when the student in question would only cost a DCPS $7.5K to educate, and meanwhile is excluding those studenta who cost $12.5K, everyone who isn't connected to Basis loses big-time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because Basis has proved to be so successful in DC...oh wait they haven't even finished their first year here.

Exactly! And when the first Starbuck's opened in DC, everyone assumed it would be as successful as in Seattle. People just don't understand how the DC demographic changes everything!

ha, funny, except turns out the only reason basis tucson looks good is because of attrition effectively making it a test in school like TJ or others.

I'm personally fine with a challenging program, I just think there needs to be another path for students who aren't prepared for it. If 25% of the class can handle the advanced curriculum then it's terrific that it is available for them. However, there needs to be an alternative set of choices for the 75% who are dropping out. Some kids may be several years ahead in math, but fairly average in reading. Let them focus their energy where they excel. I like this about the IB Program. What I don't like seeing on the taxpayer dime is 75% of students being counseled out - there should be less intense options which keep them in the school. I wouldn't be surprised if this a path which the PCSB is going to coerce or force Basis down, one way or another.

Basis does not track in English, and the kids were not counseled out - they chose to leave. I think you can only flunk after the comprehensives. But I don't see why, if the PCSB does not tell KIPP to find "less intense options" to teach their at risk kids to control their behavior, it could really ask Basis to water down its academic curriculum. It would be like telling YY to stop requiring Chinese.

In terms of the taxpayer dime, Basis took kids after count day, and the kids who left mostly left recently, so arguably they have been undercompensated this year on a per diem basis.

I think Basis is so new that eventually everyone will be choosing it for the right reasons, because it is the best fit for their child, just like YY and KIPP, and there will be less attrition. Rising tides do lift all boats - they just don't have to be the same tide, or the same type of boats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With regard to YY, I'm not a hater, but we will decline a spot if offered (and DH did stand in line at the crack of dawn). I find it very off-putting that at the various events (charter expo, open house) there have never been any parents or educators there to answer questions. And when I've asked existing parents, some (admittedly, not all) have said, "If you have questions, then go somewhere else. There are enough people who want the slot that we don't have to explain ourselves to you." We all take our children's education seriously, and committing to mandarin is a big deal (as YY families always warn on here), so I think it is entirely appropriate that I may have questions for the principal/teachers/parents. I did not appreciate the fact that when I have availed myself of opportunities to learn about the school, those questions have gone unanswered, sometimes with a very obnoxious reply.

Since you are going to decline anyway, how about calling the school and taking yourself off the waitlist.

Good question, I have not done that yet because I have been holding out hope that if we actually got in someone might give a crap about answering my questions, and perhaps I would be suitably impressed despite my initial misgivings. So I haven't wanted to close off the option since many folks do speak so highly of it.

Some of us don't have misgivings at all and Yu Ying is our first choice. So how about letting go of your spot? BTW, They offer information sessions and tours for accepted families only. We have friends and relatives who go there and are very happy. Since you are sour on them anyway, how about giving the rest of us a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I'm personally fine with a challenging program, I just think there needs to be another path for students who aren't prepared for it. If 25% of the class can handle the advanced curriculum then it's terrific that it is available for them. However, there needs to be an alternative set of choices for the 75% who are dropping out. Some kids may be several years ahead in math, but fairly average in reading. Let them focus their energy where they excel. I like this about the IB Program. What I don't like seeing on the taxpayer dime is 75% of students being counseled out - there should be less intense options which keep them in the school. I wouldn't be surprised if this a path which the PCSB is going to coerce or force Basis down, one way or another.

Where are you getting your numbers, PP? Where did you head that 75% are dropping out?

I believe this poster is using the Arizona school as a reference. They do not appear to have graduated more than 35 students in any year despite entry level classes of at least 100. Most years appear to be about 30 students graduating (from memory.) PP probably baked in a few new students that were replaced due to attrition in the entry class. This statistic also concerns me but thankfully we are forewarned so it will not be a surprise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because Basis has proved to be so successful in DC...oh wait they haven't even finished their first year here.

Exactly! And when the first Starbuck's opened in DC, everyone assumed it would be as successful as in Seattle. People just don't understand how the DC demographic changes everything!

ha, funny, except turns out the only reason basis tucson looks good is because of attrition effectively making it a test in school like TJ or others.

I know nothing about YY, but my speculation on Basis is that no one wants an excellent effectively test in charter school in DC, especially not people whose kids may be competing for the same colleges. We are like crabs in a barrel. In our elementary, many decided between Latin, Basis and private schools. The fear that you have made the wrong decision, especially if you are shelling out over 30k a year for it, will go on until your kids go to college or you are reassured. So the folks who have Wilson as their back up really have nothing else to agonize over. We wanted a TJ for several kids but could not count on all of them getting in because admission is 16%.

Looks like we got it. I am a Basis parent who is all in favor of attrition, who wants a better education for dcs than she had herself at a DC private, and believes Basis is actually better than privates or any other schools in the area. And we are done. Sibling preference and goes thru 12th grade. My kids will be there at the end, and they will be in good company. Especially having recently read one of the threads about trying to get kids into gifted and talented programs in Fairfax etc, so glad we are done. Only upset about giving up the opportunity for a larger house outside of DC, but completely worth the sacrifice. Call me out on my intellectual elitism, my selfishness, etc, but not on my honesty.

I'm personally fine with a challenging program, I just think there needs to be another path for students who aren't prepared for it. If 25% of the class can handle the advanced curriculum then it's terrific that it is available for them. However, there needs to be an alternative set of choices for the 75% who are dropping out. Some kids may be several years ahead in math, but fairly average in reading. Let them focus their energy where they excel. I like this about the IB Program. What I don't like seeing on the taxpayer dime is 75% of students being counseled out - there should be less intense options which keep them in the school. I wouldn't be surprised if this a path which the PCSB is going to coerce or force Basis down, one way or another.

Yes, there is another path for students who aren't prepared for it. In fact, there are dozens of paths. Dozens of charters, DCPS schools and other options to pick from. If a school doesn't fit you, it doesn't make sense to try and force it to fit you when there are plenty of options that are likely to be a better fit already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I find a charter that caters to academically-advanced kids (to the exclusion of slower kids), to be problematic because of the current setup of the per-pupil funding system.

I strongly suspect that higher achievers are cheaper to teach than are.kids who are disruptive or who need lots of remedial one-on-one work. So if Basis is getting $10K/student when the student in question would only cost a DCPS $7.5K to educate, and meanwhile is excluding those studenta who cost $12.5K, everyone who isn't connected to Basis loses big-time.

That's actually completely backward. There is huge disparity in the per-student funding model. The reality of it is that DCPS spends FAR more per student than charters are given to spend per student. In fact, DCPS spends more per student than virtually ANY school district in the nation. That is an absolute fact.

Charters, meanwhile, are already forced to educate their students on far less per student than DCPS schools has to spend per student. From a pure spending standpoint, it would actually be far more equitable for high-expense students to be served by DCPS as opposed to charters, since they should have far more resources per student to put toward them. In fact, DCPS has special offices, programs, people with fancy titles and entire bureaucracies for dealing with high-maintenance students, as opposed to charters, who are not given any meaningful resources to deal with them. But then again, the gross dysfunctionality within DCPS that allows most of that money to go to waste is another whole issue. Fix THAT issue of dysfunctionality, waste and abuse within DCPS FIRST, before complaining about charters or trying to squeeze and stretch charters even more than they already are and making the per-student resource allocation to charters even more unfair than it already is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Since you are going to decline anyway, how about calling the school and taking yourself off the waitlist.

Good question, I have not done that yet because I have been holding out hope that if we actually got in someone might give a crap about answering my questions, and perhaps I would be suitably impressed despite my initial misgivings. So I haven't wanted to close off the option since many folks do speak so highly of it..

I am a new YY parent this year. I was similarly unimpressed with YY before I got off the waiting list. They were much friendlier once I got off the wait list and went on a tour. I don't understand it. But we're reasonably happy and I'd be happy to answer questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's actually completely backward. There is huge disparity in the per-student funding model. The reality of it is that DCPS spends FAR more per student than charters are given to spend per student. In fact, DCPS spends more per student than virtually ANY school district in the nation. That is an absolute fact.

Charters, meanwhile, are already forced to educate their students on far less per student than DCPS schools has to spend per student. From a pure spending standpoint, it would actually be far more equitable for high-expense students to be served by DCPS as opposed to charters, since they should have far more resources per student to put toward them. In fact, DCPS has special offices, programs, people with fancy titles and entire bureaucracies for dealing with high-maintenance students, as opposed to charters, who are not given any meaningful resources to deal with them. But then again, the gross dysfunctionality within DCPS that allows most of that money to go to waste is another whole issue. Fix THAT issue of dysfunctionality, waste and abuse within DCPS FIRST, before complaining about charters or trying to squeeze and stretch charters even more than they already are and making the per-student resource allocation to charters even more unfair than it already is.

This is really a misleading statement that is repeated so often without context. That per student calculation includes educating special needs students placed in both private and DCPS schools. It also includes the busing of all those students. Until DC can find away of providing a proper education to the special needs students, that number will always be skewed because schools like Chelsea and Lab really cuts deep into the budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's actually completely backward. There is huge disparity in the per-student funding model. The reality of it is that DCPS spends FAR more per student than charters are given to spend per student. In fact, DCPS spends more per student than virtually ANY school district in the nation. That is an absolute fact.

Charters, meanwhile, are already forced to educate their students on far less per student than DCPS schools has to spend per student. From a pure spending standpoint, it would actually be far more equitable for high-expense students to be served by DCPS as opposed to charters, since they should have far more resources per student to put toward them. In fact, DCPS has special offices, programs, people with fancy titles and entire bureaucracies for dealing with high-maintenance students, as opposed to charters, who are not given any meaningful resources to deal with them. But then again, the gross dysfunctionality within DCPS that allows most of that money to go to waste is another whole issue. Fix THAT issue of dysfunctionality, waste and abuse within DCPS FIRST, before complaining about charters or trying to squeeze and stretch charters even more than they already are and making the per-student resource allocation to charters even more unfair than it already is.

This is really a misleading statement that is repeated so often without context. That per student calculation includes educating special needs students placed in both private and DCPS schools. It also includes the busing of all those students. Until DC can find away of providing a proper education to the special needs students, that number will always be skewed because schools like Chelsea and Lab really cuts deep into the budget.

You mean there are no special needs kids in other states, right?

[Anonymous]

This is really a misleading statement that is repeated so often without context. That per student calculation includes educating special needs students placed in both private and DCPS schools. It also includes the busing of all those students. Until DC can find away of providing a proper education to the special needs students, that number will always be skewed because schools like Chelsea and Lab really cuts deep into the budget.

Actually, those DCPS per student calcluations do NOT include educating special needs students in private schools or busing those students -- those costs are budgted in separate buckets managed by OSSE, not DCPS. As of DCPS' special needs students, yes, they are provided additional add-ons, as are charters. The real sources of the discrepany between DCPS and charters are facilities, DCPS' regular mid-year supplemental infusions outside of the formula, support for DCPS in other agencies outside of the formula, and DCPS being funded based on forecasted enrollment which has historically fallen short of actual (unlike charters who are funded based on an actual count).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is really a misleading statement that is repeated so often without context. That per student calculation includes educating special needs students placed in both private and DCPS schools. It also includes the busing of all those students. Until DC can find away of providing a proper education to the special needs students, that number will always be skewed because schools like Chelsea and Lab really cuts deep into the budget.

Actually, those DCPS per student calcluations do NOT include educating special needs students in private schools or busing those students -- those costs are budgted in separate buckets managed by OSSE, not DCPS. As of DCPS' special needs students, yes, they are provided additional add-ons, as are charters. The real sources of the discrepany between DCPS and charters are facilities, DCPS' regular mid-year supplemental infusions outside of the formula, support for DCPS in other agencies outside of the formula, and DCPS being funded based on forecasted enrollment which has historically fallen short of actual (unlike charters who are funded based on an actual count).

Yes, several times a year, DCPS goes to council for extra money outside of their regular budget, and there are many other areas of spending that are not included on the DCPS side - and ultimately the fact still remains that funding equation is extremely lopsided, with far less financial resources available per student on the charter side.

The bottom line is that DCPS spends more per student than virtually any other district in the nation - as such there's no good reason whatsoever as to why they couldn't provide resources as good as those available in the very best public school district in the nation with that current funding, and that includes providing for special needs.