NCS Parents - "I wish I had known x" type advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what the pps are saying, roughly 4-12 girls out of a graduating class of 77-80 girls were qualified in the upper school to take advanced math & science classes? If not on the honors math track or a math year ahead of everyone else, it doesn't appear that you will be eligible to take advanced math/science courses.(?) During freshmen year, about a handful or so of girls are allowed to take Algebra 2 & Trig while everyone else starts out in geometry (reg/honors) with some in Algebra I.

Clearly, there are different tracks. I guess this a non issue as NCS doesn't rank students. At other schools, great overall students take advanced math & science courses. Just a little something to think about during the college admissions process

[Double post to fix my goofy typos -- sorry!]

A few points. At St. Albans, same high achieving students, same graduating class size, all-boys school (so no "girls don't like math" as much issue), there are just a handful of boys taking the highest available math class (Honors Linear and Vector Calculus -- HLAVC). It's the type of class for people who might major in math in college -- not even just "great overall students." In fact, many STA boys do not even take PreCalculus (standard at many "college prep" type places) because the PreCal at St. Albans is pitched at such a high, high level of difficulty. At St. Albans you also have to be on the honors math track to end up in the HLAVC course -- and that is pretty standard for top schools. Math is one of those subjects that everybody, public and private, tracks in.

On the issue of why NCS doesn't offer the HLAVC or Physics C classes, so that the students take them at St. Albans, it really isn't about access -- everybody from NCS who wants/is qualified for those classes can have access at STA. And, there are other classes (Chinese, Computer Science) only offered at NCS. Both of these high schools are trying to deal with rising costs (as all independent schools are), and one way to do that is to have courses with small demand taught only at one of the two schools. Some of the prior posters' reactions do raise the question of whether, because of the girls school/math/sciences perception thing, NCS should go away from economics and offer its own Physics C and HLAVC classes although they will not be fully subscribed. I could understand if they did that, but I wonder if it might produce a new perception that "the girls couldn't hang" in the top level math/science classes with the boys and that's why a change was made.

Food for thought, I guess.

[Anonymous]

I didn't see that OP was really that interested in hearing the inside scoop on math class. Can we get back to the point, or start another thread on math classes at the cathedral?

I dare say most people interested in cathedral schools are not sitting there thinking - but what about the math? The math!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see that OP was really that interested in hearing the inside scoop on math class. Can we get back to the point, or start another thread on math classes at the cathedral?

I dare say most people interested in cathedral schools are not sitting there thinking - but what about the math? The math!

Why don't YOU start another thread? There appeared to be a lot of interest in the math and science issues. It's a lot more relevant than where most DCUM threads go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From what the pps are saying, roughly 4-12 girls out of a graduating class of 77-80 girls were qualified in the upper school to take advanced math & science classes? If not on the honors math track or a math year ahead of everyone else, it doesn't appear that you will be eligible to take advanced math/science courses.(?) During freshmen year, about a handful or so of girls are allowed to take Algebra 2 & Trig while everyone else starts out in geometry (reg/honors) with some in Algebra I.

Clearly, there are different tracks. I guess this a non issue as NCS doesn't rank students. At other schools, great overall students take advanced math & science courses. Just a little something to think about during the college admissions process

This is just incorrect. Everyone at NCS has completed Algebra I before starting ninth grade. DD has a good friend who started in ninth a few years ago who was required to do Algebra I over summer as a condition of acceptance, so all the girls get through at least Precalc by junior year. (There is a basic level Geometry class with lots of algebra review, but those girls go into Alg 2 in sophomore year.) Also, each girl is evaluated after every year and recommended for a track based on her performance. This same kid came in on the lowest math track and is now in the middle one because she did well in geometry.

And I agree with the other poster: people criticising having a small number of students in HLAVC don't really understand the class. My daughter is in the advanced math track, which has girls in AP Calc BC in their senior year. HLAVC is beyond what is an "advanced math class." It is for kids majoring in math in college, or similar subjects.

And I think it is revealing that while there is all sorts of criticism of NCS for not offering AP Euro or Physics C, no one is criticizing STA for not offering Chinese (STA students take Chinese at NCS). The PPs who have leveled these accusations don't understand the Close or the coordinate system. Though part of the cathedral foundation, both schools have separate budgets, separate faculty, separate endowments. If one schools allows cross-enrollment for a class, you can be sure they expect the same in return. It is a relationship of equals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what the pps are saying, roughly 4-12 girls out of a graduating class of 77-80 girls were qualified in the upper school to take advanced math & science classes? If not on the honors math track or a math year ahead of everyone else, it doesn't appear that you will be eligible to take advanced math/science courses.(?) During freshmen year, about a handful or so of girls are allowed to take Algebra 2 & Trig while everyone else starts out in geometry (reg/honors) with some in Algebra I.

Clearly, there are different tracks. I guess this a non issue as NCS doesn't rank students. At other schools, great overall students take advanced math & science courses. Just a little something to think about during the college admissions process

This is just incorrect. Everyone at NCS has completed Algebra I before starting ninth grade. DD has a good friend who started in ninth a few years ago who was required to do Algebra I over summer as a condition of acceptance, so all the girls get through at least Precalc by junior year. (There is a basic level Geometry class with lots of algebra review, but those girls go into Alg 2 in sophomore year.) Also, each girl is evaluated after every year and recommended for a track based on her performance. This same kid came in on the lowest math track and is now in the middle one because she did well in geometry.

And I agree with the other poster: people criticising having a small number of students in HLAVC don't really understand the class. My daughter is in the advanced math track, which has girls in AP Calc BC in their senior year. HLAVC is beyond what is an "advanced math class." It is for kids majoring in math in college, or similar subjects.

And I think it is revealing that while there is all sorts of criticism of NCS for not offering AP Euro or Physics C, no one is criticizing STA for not offering Chinese (STA students take Chinese at NCS). The PPs who have leveled these accusations don't understand the Close or the coordinate system. Though part of the cathedral foundation, both schools have separate budgets, separate faculty, separate endowments. If one schools allows cross-enrollment for a class, you can be sure they expect the same in return. It is a relationship of equals.

"Everyone at NCS has completed Algebra I before starting ninth grade." Totally not true, everyone has not completed Algebra I before starting ninth grade. Unclear how you can make such a blanket statement. Most girls don't get recommended into the honors math track if they started out in regular math. By sophomore or junior year, it's just too late to try and catch up to the knowledge base of classmates in honors math.

[Anonymous]

Actually, it is true. I teach in the upper school. Whoever you are, and whatever your problems with NCS, you are misinformed and wrong about this. Algebra I is not offered to upper school students. And because the middle school is on a different schedule, it's not even possible for a ninth grader to take the eighth grade algebra course.

[Anonymous]

NCS & ST. Albans on are on the same Cathedral close... and the schools do coordinate on offerings of some of the very high AP classes. They are co-ed. By the time you are a senior, it is much the same as being at University.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, it is true. I teach in the upper school. Whoever you are, and whatever your problems with NCS, you are misinformed and wrong about this. Algebra I is not offered to upper school students. And because the middle school is on a different schedule, it's not even possible for a ninth grader to take the eighth grade algebra course.

You're a NCS math teacher? What class do you teach? Thanks for chiming in. I don't recall reading anything stating that ninth graders are taking the eighth grade algebra course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what the pps are saying, roughly 4-12 girls out of a graduating class of 77-80 girls were qualified in the upper school to take advanced math & science classes? If not on the honors math track or a math year ahead of everyone else, it doesn't appear that you will be eligible to take advanced math/science courses.(?) During freshmen year, about a handful or so of girls are allowed to take Algebra 2 & Trig while everyone else starts out in geometry (reg/honors) with some in Algebra I.

Clearly, there are different tracks. I guess this a non issue as NCS doesn't rank students. At other schools, great overall students take advanced math & science courses. Just a little something to think about during the college admissions process

This is just incorrect. Everyone at NCS has completed Algebra I before starting ninth grade. DD has a good friend who started in ninth a few years ago who was required to do Algebra I over summer as a condition of acceptance, so all the girls get through at least Precalc by junior year. (There is a basic level Geometry class with lots of algebra review, but those girls go into Alg 2 in sophomore year.) Also, each girl is evaluated after every year and recommended for a track based on her performance. This same kid came in on the lowest math track and is now in the middle one because she did well in geometry.

And I agree with the other poster: people criticising having a small number of students in HLAVC don't really understand the class. My daughter is in the advanced math track, which has girls in AP Calc BC in their senior year. HLAVC is beyond what is an "advanced math class." It is for kids majoring in math in college, or similar subjects.

And I think it is revealing that while there is all sorts of criticism of NCS for not offering AP Euro or Physics C, no one is criticizing STA for not offering Chinese (STA students take Chinese at NCS). The PPs who have leveled these accusations don't understand the Close or the coordinate system. Though part of the cathedral foundation, both schools have separate budgets, separate faculty, separate endowments. If one schools allows cross-enrollment for a class, you can be sure they expect the same in return. It is a relationship of equals.

Are you the PP that's claiming to be a teacher at NCS?

[Anonymous]

On website you can see what math is offered in each grade. True that 8th graders take Algebra 1 or Accelerated Algebra 1. Also true that there is a 9th grade course called Principles of Algebra and Geometry that provides one more chance to cover Algebra in 9th grade before moving on to the next class, Geometry. It seems pretty clear that least accelerated math students will be on this track.

[Anonymous]

Good grief, people are crazy on here. I am the parent of an NCS 8th grader (and not a huge NCS booster by the way but think it is good for the right kind of kid). My other kid does not go to a Cathedral school and will never do so. Having said that, if people do care, it is true that every 8th grader is taking Algebra I for their math class this year. The girls are divided into an Accelerated and regular Algebra I. So it is true that no girl is going into 9th grade without having taken Algebra. After that, the high school offers math classes that based on a girl's performance in the prior classes are either more or less accelerated.

I don't see at all why it should be surprising to some folks that not that many girls have the interest level and ability to be taking a specialized AP math class above BC Calculus. As one of the PPs pointed out, that is a small subset of the kids at NCS and STA as well as I would imagine almost all other schools with the possible exception of TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On website you can see what math is offered in each grade. True that 8th graders take Algebra 1 or Accelerated Algebra 1. Also true that there is a 9th grade course called Principles of Algebra and Geometry that provides one more chance to cover Algebra in 9th grade before moving on to the next class, Geometry. It seems pretty clear that least accelerated math students will be on this track.

So this means there are students who will finish senior taking precal. I wonder will this have a negative impact on their SAT and SAT math subject scores. No, every student isn't necessarily a genius when it comes to math, but we're talking prep school standards here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good grief, people are crazy on here. I am the parent of an NCS 8th grader (and not a huge NCS booster by the way but think it is good for the right kind of kid). My other kid does not go to a Cathedral school and will never do so. Having said that, if people do care, it is true that every 8th grader is taking Algebra I for their math class this year. The girls are divided into an Accelerated and regular Algebra I. So it is true that no girl is going into 9th grade without having taken Algebra. After that, the high school offers math classes that based on a girl's performance in the prior classes are either more or less accelerated.

I don't see at all why it should be surprising to some folks that not that many girls have the interest level and ability to be taking a specialized AP math class above BC Calculus. As one of the PPs pointed out, that is a small subset of the kids at NCS and STA as well as I would imagine almost all other schools with the possible exception of TJ.

Setting aside the distracting maths digression, can you offer some general insight on your dds experience at NCS?

[Anonymous]

This is PP with NCS 8th grader. My personal view on the experience is that it is a very strong traditional education. A kid who is driven and hardworking by nature will do well and enjoy the challenge as my DD does. I wouldn't recommend it for a child with any significant academic weaknesses or with any anxiety/insecurity. Academic teachers have been very strong on average less good for arts/extras on average. Social environment is tough and there is a fairly normal level of meangirls. Personally, I find there are too many pushy ambitious parents and that gets on my nerves (the kind of people like PPs who are obsessed with what their child will take after Calc BC). Overall, my DD likes it and she is the one that has to go there not me. I think anyone who pushes a kid to go unless the kid really wants to is making a mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On website you can see what math is offered in each grade. True that 8th graders take Algebra 1 or Accelerated Algebra 1. Also true that there is a 9th grade course called Principles of Algebra and Geometry that provides one more chance to cover Algebra in 9th grade before moving on to the next class, Geometry. It seems pretty clear that least accelerated math students will be on this track.

So this means there are students who will finish senior taking precal. I wonder will this have a negative impact on their SAT and SAT math subject scores. No, every student isn't necessarily a genius when it comes to math, but we're talking prep school standards here.

I wouldn't worry if I were you. The SATs don't go much beyond Algebra II, so having taken Algebra and Geometry more recently would actually be an advantage. If the SAT II Math 2 test isn't in the cards, well then, there are lots of other SAT subject tests (English, history, foreign languages, more, even SAT II Math 1) that a kid can take to satisfy the 2 SAT II tests that some colleges require. I'm not an NCS parent, but this is fairly common knowledge.