Is your neighborhood a GHOST TOWN??

[Anonymous]

What's with hating on camps? My son goes to camp because - horrors - both his parents have FT jobs. But we spend a lot of time and money to make sure he is attending great camps that are geared toward his interests. He goes to the pool most afternoons after camp. I felt guilty the first year for not giving him that "1980 summer" that I had as a kid of just hanging around, and then he announced he wished he could go to camp year-round. Same goes for any afterschool activities he does - they are his choice, not some conspiracy by an ambitious career-oriented parent to keep him busy so that he doesn't notice our absence.

I'm amazed at how much hate there is for families in which both parents work. OP and others, if you don't like the social vibe in your neighborhoods either do something to change it or move. Coming here and complaining and trying to find someone to blame is pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's with hating on camps? My son goes to camp because - horrors - both his parents have FT jobs. But we spend a lot of time and money to make sure he is attending great camps that are geared toward his interests. He goes to the pool most afternoons after camp. I felt guilty the first year for not giving him that "1980 summer" that I had as a kid of just hanging around, and then he announced he wished he could go to camp year-round. Same goes for any afterschool activities he does - they are his choice, not some conspiracy by an ambitious career-oriented parent to keep him busy so that he doesn't notice our absence.

I'm amazed at how much hate there is for families in which both parents work. OP and others, if you don't like the social vibe in your neighborhoods either do something to change it or move. Coming here and complaining and trying to find someone to blame is pointless.

I don't have experience related to this discussion because I'm just pregnant with my first, but I don't see the hate you perceive. All I see is frustration by parents whose lifestyles, and the lifestyle they want to give their kids, doesn't match up with that of their neighbors. I think your post sounds very defensive. And if you actually read OP's post, you'd know that she IS indeed looking to move, and that she did try to change the situation in her neighborhood before. She doesn't need your advice to do so.

There are a lot of people who live in the DC area because that's where their jobs are, and who may still not like the lifestyle here or the consequences for their kids. They have the right to vent and commiserate here. If that bothers you, move out of the thread.

[Anonymous]

After a few years of fighting the tide and trying to have "old fashioned" summers that are spontaneous, I gave up. My kids were -always- alone.

The school year is just as (pointlessly) structured around here. The striving parents won't admit it this way, but much of the enrichment scheduling is aimed at resume building. ie, unathletic indifferent kids playing 3 sports and playing two instruments.

This is just the sad reality of the DC area and keeping up with the Jonses. Being forced into all summer-long camps. I think it has to do with parent laziness too. Easier to send them to camp all day and let someone else deal with them. Everyone just follows suit. I wish my neighborhood had moms and kids home all summer, making their own memories.

It is a bit sad that some parents can't fathom just hanging out or having mini adventures with their own kids during the Summer.

No, 1343PP, no hate toward families whose kids do afterschool activities or camps here. None at all. My point is simply that there are lot of kids in camps and activities who want to be there - as well as a lot of us for whom this is an essential part of the work-life balance. Btw, PP, you may figure that out once you actually become a parent.

As for the OP and the others who think that activities and camps are all signs of the apocalypse, let me just assure you that despite the fact my kids participate in activities and go to camps, they have neighborhood friends and a reasonably good sense of community. So camps are not really your problem.

The OP and the angry SAHMs are totally free to vent all they like, but I'm also free to offer some advice: if you don't like something, work to change it. And if the efforts you made a decade ago didn't succeed, try again. Blaming those "strivers" and "driven feminist women" - actual quotes from posts in this thread, which just boggles my mind - for what you perceive as a problem in your neighborhood is ugly and petty and incredibly backward. And it doesn't do a damn thing to make your neighborhood feel like less of a "GHOST TOWN."

[Anonymous]

My parents worked FT and I went to camp. The neighborhood kids and I played in the evenings and on the weekend (this was summer 90 not 80). What's stopping the older kids from getting together after dinner and Saturday/Sunday these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who live near downtown Silver Spring, could you please be very specific? Where exactly are you? TIA

Try any of the neighborhoods off either side of Colesville Road: Woodside Park, Seven Oaks, Indian Spring Hills, Sligo Park Hills, North Hills, South and North Four Corners, Woodmoor, also Forest Glen & Woodside. 20910 & 20901

WaPo had an article today about North Hills. http://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/where-we-live-north-hills-of-sligo-creek-in-silver-spring/2012/06/14/gJQASNtLdV_story.html

[Anonymous]

I went to camp all summer (day camp until age 8 and then 8 weeks of sleep away camp from age 9-high school). This was in the 1980s/early 90s. I loved it - those are some of my best childhood memories. We may are may not do the same for our kids, but what is with all the camp hating???!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to camp all summer (day camp until age 8 and then 8 weeks of sleep away camp from age 9-high school). This was in the 1980s/early 90s. I loved it - those are some of my best childhood memories. We may are may not do the same for our kids, but what is with all the camp hating???!!!

8 weeks of sleep away ?? For 10 years seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to camp all summer (day camp until age 8 and then 8 weeks of sleep away camp from age 9-high school). This was in the 1980s/early 90s. I loved it - those are some of my best childhood memories. We may are may not do the same for our kids, but what is with all the camp hating???!!!

8 weeks of sleep away ?? For 10 years seriously?

Yes. Jews in NYC area do this for their 8+ year olds. Very common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Summer 1980 called and said it's not making a comeback.

Look OP time moves on and things change. Not everything is going to be exactly the same as when you were a kid.

So now kids go to camp and aftershool activites. Are you going to just whine about your kid having no one to play with or anything to do or are you going to fix it?

And on the parties, sorry, but as a WOHM I wouldn't help you either. Why should I? You are at home all day and have a 10 yr old. I think planning a get together shouldn't tax your time. (but I would contribute monetarily or food wise)

Ok I am a SAHM, have been for the past 13+ years and I agree 100% with this person. Except I probably would have said Summer of 1975 called instead of 1980. Our neighborhood has had spurts, sometimes there are kids around,sometimes not, they move, others move in, things just don't stay the same. Our kids have had times when they were out playing with other kids, then the kids get older, interests change and yeah it is not the same as it was for me. My parents never arranged play dates, we just went outside. I had to arrange play dates. Does that mean my kids are not having fun or won't have any good memories? I didn't go to camp, my kids have gone to all sorts of day camps, been on summer swim teams and dive teams and connected with kids that they only see during the Summer. When I was a kid, we hung out at the beach. Just because it is different doesn't mean they won't enjoy childhood.

I agree about the parties too. I would be glad to get the donation if I took this on, and that is a big if. No kid is going to grow up and cry about the fact that they never had a neighborhood party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to camp all summer (day camp until age 8 and then 8 weeks of sleep away camp from age 9-high school). This was in the 1980s/early 90s. I loved it - those are some of my best childhood memories. We may are may not do the same for our kids, but what is with all the camp hating???!!!

8 weeks of sleep away ?? For 10 years seriously?

yes. LOVED camp! 20+ years later i'm still singing camp songs!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

After a few years of fighting the tide and trying to have "old fashioned" summers that are spontaneous, I gave up. My kids were -always- alone.

The school year is just as (pointlessly) structured around here. The striving parents won't admit it this way, but much of the enrichment scheduling is aimed at resume building. ie, unathletic indifferent kids playing 3 sports and playing two instruments.

This is just the sad reality of the DC area and keeping up with the Jonses. Being forced into all summer-long camps. I think it has to do with parent laziness too. Easier to send them to camp all day and let someone else deal with them. Everyone just follows suit. I wish my neighborhood had moms and kids home all summer, making their own memories.

[quote]It is a bit sad that some parents can't fathom just hanging out or having mini adventures with their own kids during the Summer.

No, 1343PP, no hate toward families whose kids do afterschool activities or camps here. None at all. My point is simply that there are lot of kids in camps and activities who want to be there - as well as a lot of us for whom this is an essential part of the work-life balance. Btw, PP, you may figure that out once you actually become a parent.

As for the OP and the others who think that activities and camps are all signs of the apocalypse, let me just assure you that despite the fact my kids participate in activities and go to camps, they have neighborhood friends and a reasonably good sense of community. So camps are not really your problem.

The OP and the angry SAHMs are totally free to vent all they like, but I'm also free to offer some advice: if you don't like something, work to change it. And if the efforts you made a decade ago didn't succeed, try again. Blaming those "strivers" and "driven feminist women" - actual quotes from posts in this thread, which just boggles my mind - for what you perceive as a problem in your neighborhood is ugly and petty and incredibly backward. And it doesn't do a damn thing to make your neighborhood feel like less of a "GHOST TOWN."
If you are going to quote me at least read my whole post. Again, I am NOT referring to parents who work out of the home full-time.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if people are idealizing the summers of their youth. The things I remember about my summers were vacations, camps and trips. I remember being bored the rest of the time, although I filled that time with reading so that wasn't a bad thing. But I would have loved to get to do some of the things my kids have gotten to do in camps. I would rather have learned to play soccer or tennis or lacrosse than "kick the can", whatever that is.

[Anonymous]

Hi all, I wrote the first post and I couldn't find it. I guess someone moved it to real estate.

Thank for all of those who actually gave me some suggestions on where to look to move. I truly appreciate it. It would be great if I can more specific areas too.

For those blasting me for wanting a more 1900 or 1980 type life, sorry but I do want something different than what is offered here and I don't believe that every neightborhood is like this.

I did not bash WOHM at all and I never said sending your kids all summer long to camps is wrong, I just don't personally want to raise my kids that way and am just looking for more kid-friendly neighborhoods with even just a handful of SAHM's, kids outside play, going to the local pool, park etc... because mine is not. The older kids do go away all summer, the younger ones go to preschool camps, many kids stay home with nannies but they don't speak much English and the kids are not allowed to play outside on their own, even at the age of 10/11. Weekends are pretty much the same. Someone mentioned lawn care and I laughed - no one does their own lawns here but us and maybe 2-3 more families.

I don't know how to quote other people but the one WOHM who was extremely mean, I actually have 3 kids and in my post, I talk about them. So I guess you chose not to read it. I have a 3, 6 and 10 year old. When we moved here my oldest was 4 and I had a newborn and after finding out the neighborhood doesn't do much socializing, I did multiple neighborhood gatherings that families came to but never helped. I don't believe because I don't have a full time job, that I should have to continue to do that 2-3 times a year with just monetary donations from families. You imply that your life is busier than mine. I don't ever assume anyone's life is worse, better, busier than mine because I have not been in anyone's shoes but my own. You implied I sit around with just a 10 year old and that couldn't be further than the truth. I co-op in my 3 year olds school twice a week, volunteer in my 6 year olds class once a week and room parented my 10 year olds class and was on her promotion committee. I run staff appreciation at their school and Spring Festival at my 3 year's preschool. I am the leader of my 6 year old's Daisy troop and my 10 year old's Cadette troop. My husband and I coach/manage my 10 year old's softball team every Fall and Spring and I am on the board and attend meetings at both schools, Girl Scouts, and Moms Club. I also work one weekend a month as an RN supervisor to keep my skills up. I am annoyed that I feel that I have to justify what I do because many WOHM's think SAHM's do nothing.

I am not angry or bitter. I could go back and work full time, make more money and send my kids to daycares, camps, and other extracuricular activities in a heartbeat, but I don't want to. And maybe that comes from growing up with a SAHM and tons of friends to play with in my neightborhood every single day and having a great childhood with my parents, siblings, and friends at pools, bbg, parties and the like. I don't think I should be ridiculed for wanting that for my own kids or just follow suit with what everyone in my neighborhood does. Summer camp for 8 weeks isn't even an option in my world, even if I could afford it. I would miss my kids way to much. But I wasn't bashing anyone and it wasn't meant to be a debate. If I could leave this area I would, but my husband's company is here. I am just looking for ideas on where to move in Maryland that my family may be happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hm. For me one of the key themes of this thread is the growing burden of being a working mom. I don't know about others, but it takes every drop of strength that I have to cope with my 10hr days plus commute, get food on the table, comfort, listen, help with homework, baths, make lunches, finish dishes, plan the next day, catch up on work email that has come in during the home shift... If I get 15 minutes of downtime for myself, it's a rare night. Weekends are packed with as much kid time as possible, chores, and work (so I can get out by 6 during the week).

Now, before you say I should not have such a time-consuming job, well, it wasn't intended to be that way. And it was not like this ten years ago. But the recession changed a lot of things for those of us lucky enough to keep our jobs. I was a SAHM for a few years, and a big-time volunteer, party organizer-a lot like OP, fighting to build a community. However, i went back to work when I realized it was now or never find a job in my field again. Just as well, as DH was then out of work for some time. Now we both work, and there is not much respite. Golden handcuffs, if you will.

Our neighborhood is indeed a ghost town. And I am part of the reason. But the thought of organizing a block party makes me weep. The only way I can imagine being back in a Norman Rockville world is to uproot us all, sell the home and reestablish somewhere totally different.

I agree with this poster. Both my DH and I work full time as a result (to quote another poster), our kids are in after care and we all do not come home until 6 - 6:30 each evening. The kids get their friend time during aftercare as all their friends are there as well. I feel a little sorry for the kids with stay at home moms as they don't get the same "friend time" that my kids get. Ironically, my eight year old son recently read the Wimpy Kid book about summer and he moaned about how "everyone" does nothing but laze around all summer while he has to go to camps. However, I simply asked him "how many of your friends don't go to camp"? and he came to realize that ALL of his friends go to camp - so that is where he will see them. My daughter loves seeing her friends and hasn't complained yet. Anyway, if you want to organize play time for your kids, find out what their friends are doing. If they are in aftercare, see if you can enroll them at least 2x a week there so they can have fun then.
I don't have an answer to your other point regarding the "community feel"; as I also live in Rockville (western side closer to Potomac) and we have had several block parties (not formal block parties, but someone will have a party and invite all of the neighbors). Our kids are all basically the same age and on weekends they run around the neighborhood, ride bikes or scooters or we meet each other at the local (walking distance) pool.

I think these two posters have hit upon it. I don't even have a demanding job; I have chosen to downshift myself into a "mommy" type of job, but it still takes every drop of energy and then some, until I am scraping the bottom of the barrel and running on fumes, to get through my days. The commute, the job that begins when I get home, the mental stress of trying keep a home running on top of everything else, the emotional toll of being "on" for DC and DH. . .it's all such an unbelievable, far harder than I ever expected, job. I really feel like our society needs or maybe is in the middle of some type of paradigm shift in lifestyles. Because I was with my parents this weekend (my mom was a SAHM), and she was like, 'Oh, you could decorate your powder room this way. . you could swap in some black towels for something diffrent. . maybe reframe this picture in a black frame. . .jazz it up a bit." And my mind was just like, "I can only deal with the basiss: work, get my children, get them home, make sure everyone is fed, bills are paid, clothes are on people's bodies, clothes are clean, landscaping is neat but basic, husband is barely contented." I just have to get those basics taken care of; it is a sheer luxury to me to consider something like a new color scheme in my powder room or creating a sense of community in my heighborhood. I have truly come to think of those things as LUXURIES because, even with my life stripped down to the basics I have listed above, the lifestyle in this modern age which we (society? women? other? I?) have created, it's just unsustainable. Well, I am just rambling here, mostly because it's only Monday but I am already exhausted because I spent half the night tossing and turning in insonmia for some unknown reason, with snippets from the BBC whcih was on the radio working their way into my consciousness as I tried to sleep! AGH!

[Anonymous]

To the OP, coming from Michigan I can tell you that it is really hard to find what you are looking for here. I seriously miss my town and jealous of my old friends who live a much simpler life that I too think is much healthier for kids and their parents. I have moved 3 times and we are currently in Germantown and like it so much more than Bethesda or Arlington. This area is so high stressed with this strange need to out stress their lives to others. Like you aren't cool unless you are constantly on the go. Spending a day with your kids without any plans are for the weirdos, lol. The goal of DC Metro families is to drive a Lexus SUV, have lawn care, house cleaners, expensive gym memberships, send their poor kids off to camp all summer long (not day camps, like 10 weeks of sleep away camps!!) They have their kids in private school, expensive activities everyday of the week, top of the lines clothes, shoes, purses, etc.... Their ideal family life is seeing their kids 2 hours a day and one week in the summer. I have found that it is ideal to look for women who are not originally fhon this area, stay active in moms clubs (although they can be just as bad with over scheduling) and find the cheapest preschool. Get involved in public schools. Move further away from the beltway. My friend is in a beautiful new home in New Market and her entire street is SAHM's. Just like you will vent about the lack of community, there will always be those moms that will never do anything about it around here. Good luck in finding a new home and community. Do a lot of research!!