http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-02/harvard-targeted-in-u-s-asian-american-discrimination-probe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this is racist, don't add race to applications, problem solved

I think names like Jung Koo or Ravi Patel will give it away anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is racist, don't add race to applications, problem solved

I think names like Jung Koo or Ravi Patel will give it away anyway.

I agree. But I don't know what the solution is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is racist, don't add race to applications, problem solved

I think names like Jung Koo or Ravi Patel will give it away anyway.

I agree. But I don't know what the solution is.

Blind admissions using numbers. No identifiable info beyond scores. Maybe the top schools would have 98% asians and 2% whites that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is racist, don't add race to applications, problem solved

I think names like Jung Koo or Ravi Patel will give it away anyway.

I agree. But I don't know what the solution is.

Blind admissions using numbers. No identifiable info beyond scores. Maybe the top schools would have 98% asians and 2% whites that way.

I actually like the first 2 sentences. (The 3rd sentence is absurd.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If all other credentials are equal, Asian-Americans need to score 140 points more than whites, 270 points higher than Hispanics, and 450 points above African-Americans out of a maximum 1600 on the math and reading SAT to have the same chance of admission to a private college, according to “No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal,” a 2009 book co-written by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-02/harvard-targeted-in-u-s-asian-american-discrimination-probe.html

That's because they don't just go by test scores when making admissions decisions. As it should be,

PP, how did you do on reading comprehension tests? I'm asking b/c you failed to note the words "If all other credentials are equal . . . ."Yes, factors other than test scores are taken into account, but AA candidates are still held to a higher standard. ...

First, this news is from February 2012. I'm pretty sure these complaints were already withdrawn/dismissed a few months ago: "In August [2011], an Asian-American student whose undergraduate application had been turned down by Harvard filed a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Education alleging that the rejection was based on race. The Department of Education opened an investigation which lasted several months before the student withdrew the complaint." http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/5/24/affirmative-action-supreme-court/ I recall seeing other articles in the April/May timeframe that discussed the Dept of Ed's closure of these cases.

Second, I've read Espenshade's work, and his research did not take into account other factors besides race and SAT scores. So when the article says "if all other credentials are equal," it is not saying that those factors were considered and discounted, but rather saying hypothetically that if every student is absolutely identical except for race and SAT, then Espenshade's differential is experienced.

HTH.

[Anonymous]

Many Asian applicants have high test scores but submit staggeringly dull essays. I can't imagine how dull a campus would be if such students were admitted in even greater numbers.

[Anonymous]

Ok, asians are the best students, but do not know how to write essays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, asians are the best students, but do not know how to write essays

This seems like an oxymoron: how can you be the "best" student if you have no writing ability? It's an important skill and colleges rightly look for it.

[Anonymous]

Asian parents just need to quit salivating over Harvard. When I lived near there I'd see huge busloads of Asian tourists coming through campus. Maybe the problem is not the preportionately fewer Asians that are admitted; maybe it's the proportionally much higher numbers of Asians who apply because their parents are obsessed with the place. There are so many fantastic colleges in this country. We don't all have to line up at one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian parents just need to quit salivating over Harvard. When I lived near there I'd see huge busloads of Asian tourists coming through campus. Maybe the problem is not the preportionately fewer Asians that are admitted; maybe it's the proportionally much higher numbers of Asians who apply because their parents are obsessed with the place. There are so many fantastic colleges in this country. We don't all have to line up at one of them.

It's not just Harvard. All of the Ivies use race-based admission policies that are based on government mandated AA regulations. The point of the case going to the Supremes is to overturn the federal AA regulations that mandate quotas. They were originally intended to be more protective of minorities, but they don't really do that.

[Anonymous]

Racial quotas no longer exist. Race can be taken as a factor along with other things, but race alone is no longer permissible. That particular quota went away under the Rehnquist court with O'Connors swing vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is racist, don't add race to applications, problem solved

I think names like Jung Koo or Ravi Patel will give it away anyway.

I agree. But I don't know what the solution is.

Blind admissions using numbers. No identifiable info beyond scores. Maybe the top schools would have 98% asians and 2% whites that way.

Which stats should we use? Lots of schools rely heavily on class rank. Should we require Harvard to take the same percentage from Anacostia High that they take from Sidwell? Or do we approve of the ways in which admissions and the education system is biased in favor of whites and Asians, but not the ways in which it is biased against them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian parents just need to quit salivating over Harvard. When I lived near there I'd see huge busloads of Asian tourists coming through campus. Maybe the problem is not the preportionately fewer Asians that are admitted; maybe it's the proportionally much higher numbers of Asians who apply because their parents are obsessed with the place. There are so many fantastic colleges in this country. We don't all have to line up at one of them.

It's not just Harvard. All of the Ivies use race-based admission policies that are based on government mandated AA regulations. The point of the case going to the Supremes is to overturn the federal AA regulations that mandate quotas. They were originally intended to be more protective of minorities, but they don't really do that.

Government mandated affirmative action regulations?? Where are you possibly getting this? In 2003 a Supreme Court case ruled that it was not illegal for a public university to take race into account in admissions. This year, the court could revisit that decision and decide it is not legal to take race into account in any way. If you really think our government mandates affirmative action quotas at American colleges, you are tremendously ignorant about our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, asians are the best students, but do not know how to write essays

This seems like an oxymoron: how can you be the "best" student if you have no writing ability? It's an important skill and colleges rightly look for it.

Since it's all rigged to keep the ruling class in their positions, meritocracy requires random IQ tests when they are very young, before they can be test prepped. You either are truly gifted or not.

The Cult of Smartness: How Meritocracy Is Failing America

Institutions designed to reward merit are being gamed by the privileged, who create a self-perpetuating elite. The most familiar example concerns admission to prestigious schools. Admissions tests like the SAT began as a high-minded reform. Applicants would be chosen for intellectual prowess and compete for their spot on a level playing field. Thanks to test prep, the rich get lots of time to practice on it, while even smart poor kids don't.

More broadly, inequality begets more inequality. "Those who climb up the ladder will always find a way to pull it up after them, or to selectively lower it down to allow their friends, allies and kin to scramble up." Thus the astonishingly outsized gains seen at the very top of American society.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/why-our-elites-are-failing-us-and-how-to-fix-it/258492/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, asians are the best students, but do not know how to write essays

This seems like an oxymoron: how can you be the "best" student if you have no writing ability? It's an important skill and colleges rightly look for it.

Since it's all rigged to keep the ruling class in their positions, meritocracy requires random IQ tests when they are very young, before they can be test prepped. You either are truly gifted or not.

The Cult of Smartness: How Meritocracy Is Failing America

Institutions designed to reward merit are being gamed by the privileged, who create a self-perpetuating elite. The most familiar example concerns admission to prestigious schools. Admissions tests like the SAT began as a high-minded reform. Applicants would be chosen for intellectual prowess and compete for their spot on a level playing field. Thanks to test prep, the rich get lots of time to practice on it, while even smart poor kids don't.

More broadly, inequality begets more inequality. "Those who climb up the ladder will always find a way to pull it up after them, or to selectively lower it down to allow their friends, allies and kin to scramble up." Thus the astonishingly outsized gains seen at the very top of American society.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/why-our-elites-are-failing-us-and-how-to-fix-it/258492/

For once I actually agree with you. What the article emphasizes, and where I agree, is that rich kids can prep for the SATs. However, if you're the Asian conspiracy theorist, I have to point out that most Asians are wealthy enough to participate in all the SAT prepping. And they do participate, in droves, in SAT prepping, starting before 9th grade (!!!) in my kids' public school. My kids each know several Asian kids who started with the SAT prep courses before high school even started.