When you think of Africans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My husband is also Sub Saharan African. My children feel they are African American. That is enough for me. I am not into splitting hairs and I do not really care. I did not know being African American implied having ancestors who were slaves in America. First time I hear of this.

Not saying you should "split hairs". Just want people to actually understand. A lot of people don't know what the term African American means.

But yes, it specifically applies to US blacks whose ancestors were slaves in America. Because of the separation of families, etc, there's no conclusive way for African-Americans to trace our country of origin in Africa. As such, we use the term African-American to both honor our ancestors and to make a connection to our past in Africa without benefit of knowing from where exactly.

If your husband is from Kenya, for instance. He knows his country of origin. His ancestors were not slaves in America. As such, he is not African American....he is Kenyan and/or Kenyan-American. Unless you are an African American yourself, your children aren't either.

Now they can choose to self-identify however you please (Obama does). Doesn't make it a true/accurate identification.

I am Jamaican, my children were born here. my ancestors were also slaves and I cannot trace them to a specific country. What are my children? Would your answer change if I was born here by my parents were born in Jamaica. What if my dad were an american-born black and my mom was born in Jamaica?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Well it is nice you made up this definition while sitting around your dining room table...you can't project your own definition onto everyone. African America refers to Americans with Sub Saharan African heritage. There is no requirement that the ancestors were slaves. Many of them were of course but others came under different circumstances.

Where did you get your definition from?

I can tell that you're white from your post, so what can you possibly know about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Sub Saharan Africans. I do not identify as AAs, but then I do not think I am an "other" either. The official definition of Black or African American makes me tick the box.

My kids will of course self identify as African Americans on any forms, without sharing my reticence.

The box usually has Black or African American (as you state). So, it's not a matter of being both, but rather are you one of the other.

Is your husband AA? If not, why would your kids be AA?

Because her kids are presumably born in America and the will be raised in America(I'm also assuming) so this will sufficiently make them African Americans. Just like 2nd generation Asian, Italians, Mexicans born and bred in America all add "-American"

Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Really? who made this rule exactly because I've never heard of it. Can you show me where it's written in the United States Code?

In that case, my neighbors will be "South-African-American", doesn't quite flow well. "Cameroonian-American", "Ugandan-American" "Senegalese-American". I think all these would probably garner a eye-roll from people, followed by -what, you think you're too good to be African-American?-

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Please educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American

It's not about being too good or not good enough. What is your problem?

Do you also have a problem with those who consider themselves Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc. Do you insist that they say Europe-American, Asian-American?

All of the labels that you describe are accurate. Being a tongue twister doesn't mean it doesn't apply.

Wow PP, you are really passionate about this issue of exclusion aren't you? Well anyway, my kids are still going to check that "African-American" box. If you can find a way to stop them from doing so, knock yourself out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My husband is also Sub Saharan African. My children feel they are African American. That is enough for me. I am not into splitting hairs and I do not really care. I did not know being African American implied having ancestors who were slaves in America. First time I hear of this.

Not saying you should "split hairs". Just want people to actually understand. A lot of people don't know what the term African American means.

But yes, it specifically applies to US blacks whose ancestors were slaves in America. Because of the separation of families, etc, there's no conclusive way for African-Americans to trace our country of origin in Africa. As such, we use the term African-American to both honor our ancestors and to make a connection to our past in Africa without benefit of knowing from where exactly.

If your husband is from Kenya, for instance. He knows his country of origin. His ancestors were not slaves in America. As such, he is not African American....he is Kenyan and/or Kenyan-American. Unless you are an African American yourself, your children aren't either.

Now they can choose to self-identify however you please (Obama does). Doesn't make it a true/accurate identification.

I am Jamaican, my children were born here. my ancestors were also slaves and I cannot trace them to a specific country. What are my children? Would your answer change if I was born here by my parents were born in Jamaica. What if my dad were an american-born black and my mom was born in Jamaica?

Why is this so hard to understand?

Your parents are/were Jamaican. If they came here and gained citizenship, they became Jamaican-Americans. You are Jamaican-American. Doesn't matter where you were born if the lineage of your family isn't Africa---------------US. "Stops" in between do not qualify. If your Dad was born in America and his family lineage went directly from Africa to the US, he is AA and so are you (if you so choose to identify).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Sub Saharan Africans. I do not identify as AAs, but then I do not think I am an "other" either. The official definition of Black or African American makes me tick the box.

My kids will of course self identify as African Americans on any forms, without sharing my reticence.

The box usually has Black or African American (as you state). So, it's not a matter of being both, but rather are you one of the other.

Is your husband AA? If not, why would your kids be AA?

Because her kids are presumably born in America and the will be raised in America(I'm also assuming) so this will sufficiently make them African Americans. Just like 2nd generation Asian, Italians, Mexicans born and bred in America all add "-American"

Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Really? who made this rule exactly because I've never heard of it. Can you show me where it's written in the United States Code?

In that case, my neighbors will be "South-African-American", doesn't quite flow well. "Cameroonian-American", "Ugandan-American" "Senegalese-American". I think all these would probably garner a eye-roll from people, followed by -what, you think you're too good to be African-American?-

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Please educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American

It's not about being too good or not good enough. What is your problem?

Do you also have a problem with those who consider themselves Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc. Do you insist that they say Europe-American, Asian-American?

All of the labels that you describe are accurate. Being a tongue twister doesn't mean it doesn't apply.

Wow PP, you are really passionate about this issue of exclusion aren't you? Well anyway, my kids are still going to check that "African-American" box. If you can find a way to stop them from doing so, knock yourself out.

Why do you find knowledge offensive? And I always find it wonderful to educate others...it's how we learn and grow.

As I've stated, it's not about saying "Don't you dare say you're African American". I don't care who uses the term. But if you're going to identify with a group of people, shouldn't you at least know the very definition of the term?

I'm not interested in stopping your children from doing anything. But as a parent, please do your duty and educate them about the term's definition.

[Anonymous]

For 12:26, you do realize that Africans and "African-Americans" share the same ancestors right? If a family of four was split and 2 were sold into slavery and the other two left behind in Africa, do they stop being family because of that? If they all go on to expand their respective families in different parts of the world, does their source of origin change?

[Anonymous]

Why do you find knowledge offensive? And I always find it wonderful to educate others...it's how we learn and grow.

As I've stated, it's not about saying "Don't you dare say you're African American". I don't care who uses the term. But if you're going to identify with a group of people, shouldn't you at least know the very definition of the term?

I'm not interested in stopping your children from doing anything. But as a parent, please do your duty and educate them about the term's definition.

Definition according to whom though? Wikipedia? please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The more interesting question is, "Do they consider themselves African?"

It made my (African) husband C R A Z Y that Ethiopians generally don't identify as "African" but as "Ethiopian."

It's a fascinating dynamic, really.

Politically, some Libyans may identify as "African." I can't see Tunisians or non-Berber Moroccans doing the same thing. And, I'm kind of tickled when I think of their reactions should you ever pose the question directly.

My DH is Nigerian. He does not want to be identified or associated with AAs. He has strong opinions in the matter.

That's because black africans generally have a felling of superiority (misplaced) towards black americans. They are very disdainful. It's really distasteful and IRONIC.

[Anonymous]

Why is this so hard to understand?

Your parents are/were Jamaican. If they came here and gained citizenship, they became Jamaican-Americans. You are Jamaican-American. Doesn't matter where you were born if the lineage of your family isn't Africa---------------US. "Stops" in between do not qualify. If your Dad was born in America and his family lineage went directly from Africa to the US, he is AA and so are you (if you so choose to identify).

I'm confused,

Great Grandparents- born in Kenya
Grandparents- Born in America
Parents- Born in America
Children- Born in America

Which one of them qualifies as African-American?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Well it is nice you made up this definition while sitting around your dining room table...you can't project your own definition onto everyone. African America refers to Americans with Sub Saharan African heritage. There is no requirement that the ancestors were slaves. Many of them were of course but others came under different circumstances.

Where did you get your definition from?

I can tell that you're white from your post, so what can you possibly know about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American

You know your wiki link says you don't have to be descended from slaves, right? Anyone with ancestry from Sub-saharan Africa "counts" as AA.

[Anonymous]

Remember Sen. John Kerry's wife?The white Botswanan, or whatever? She called herself African American. That was so wrong.

[Anonymous]

To the pp who keeps posting the "definitive" definition of African American from Wikipedia, you realize that the definition there contradicts what you've been saying, right? According to wikipedia, your African ancestors do not have to have been enslaved in the US.

African Americans[2] (also referred to as Black Americans or Afro-Americans, and formerly as American Negroes) are citizens or residents of the United States who have at least partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa.[3] Most African Americans are of West and Central African descent and are descendants of enslaved Africans within the boundaries of the present United States.[4][5] However, some immigrants from African, Caribbean, Central American or South American nations, or their descendants, may be identified or self-identify with the term.[3]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Well it is nice you made up this definition while sitting around your dining room table...you can't project your own definition onto everyone. African America refers to Americans with Sub Saharan African heritage. There is no requirement that the ancestors were slaves. Many of them were of course but others came under different circumstances.

Where did you get your definition from?

I can tell that you're white from your post, so what can you possibly know about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American

Funny that the wiki piece was accompanied by a picture of Obama - who is clearly NOT African-American if you follow your definition of the term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My husband is also Sub Saharan African. My children feel they are African American. That is enough for me. I am not into splitting hairs and I do not really care. I did not know being African American implied having ancestors who were slaves in America. First time I hear of this.

Not saying you should "split hairs". Just want people to actually understand. A lot of people don't know what the term African American means.

But yes, it specifically applies to US blacks whose ancestors were slaves in America. Because of the separation of families, etc, there's no conclusive way for African-Americans to trace our country of origin in Africa. As such, we use the term African-American to both honor our ancestors and to make a connection to our past in Africa without benefit of knowing from where exactly.

If your husband is from Kenya, for instance. He knows his country of origin. His ancestors were not slaves in America. As such, he is not African American....he is Kenyan and/or Kenyan-American. Unless you are an African American yourself, your children aren't either.

Now they can choose to self-identify however you please (Obama does). Doesn't make it a true/accurate identification.

I am Jamaican, my children were born here. my ancestors were also slaves and I cannot trace them to a specific country. What are my children? Would your answer change if I was born here by my parents were born in Jamaica. What if my dad were an american-born black and my mom was born in Jamaica?

Why is this so hard to understand?

Your parents are/were Jamaican. If they came here and gained citizenship, they became Jamaican-Americans. You are Jamaican-American. Doesn't matter where you were born if the lineage of your family isn't Africa---------------US. "Stops" in between do not qualify. If your Dad was born in America and his family lineage went directly from Africa to the US, he is AA and so are you (if you so choose to identify).

What if the slave ship that took my ancesotos to Virgina stopped in Jamaica for a few days and allowed the slaves to get some air, does that mean that I need to give up my AA label.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My husband is also Sub Saharan African. My children feel they are African American. That is enough for me. I am not into splitting hairs and I do not really care. I did not know being African American implied having ancestors who were slaves in America. First time I hear of this.

Not saying you should "split hairs". Just want people to actually understand. A lot of people don't know what the term African American means.

But yes, it specifically applies to US blacks whose ancestors were slaves in America. Because of the separation of families, etc, there's no conclusive way for African-Americans to trace our country of origin in Africa. As such, we use the term African-American to both honor our ancestors and to make a connection to our past in Africa without benefit of knowing from where exactly.

If your husband is from Kenya, for instance. He knows his country of origin. His ancestors were not slaves in America. As such, he is not African American....he is Kenyan and/or Kenyan-American. Unless you are an African American yourself, your children aren't either.

Now they can choose to self-identify however you please (Obama does). Doesn't make it a true/accurate identification.

I am Jamaican, my children were born here. my ancestors were also slaves and I cannot trace them to a specific country. What are my children? Would your answer change if I was born here by my parents were born in Jamaica. What if my dad were an american-born black and my mom was born in Jamaica?

Why is this so hard to understand?

Your parents are/were Jamaican. If they came here and gained citizenship, they became Jamaican-Americans. You are Jamaican-American. Doesn't matter where you were born if the lineage of your family isn't Africa---------------US. "Stops" in between do not qualify. If your Dad was born in America and his family lineage went directly from Africa to the US, he is AA and so are you (if you so choose to identify).

What if the slave ship that took my ancesotos to Virgina stopped in Jamaica for a few days and allowed the slaves to get some air, does that mean that I need to give up my AA label.

Unfortunately yes, the moment their feet touched anything besides that ship, they were stripped of their AA label. sorry