When you think of Africans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My DH is Nigerian. He does not want to be identified or associated with AAs. He has strong opinions in the matter.

What do AAs have to do with this discussion? PP was talking about Africans. I'm sure many AAs don't want to be identified and associated with Nigerians (who know with the disease , famine and all)

NP here. Wow 8:45, 8:43 poster must have really hit a nerve for you to degenerate to bashing an entire country that you probably have never been to. Forget what you see on TV and read on the news and visit Nigeria before you talk about it's "disease, famine and all".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Sub Saharan Africans. I do not identify as AAs, but then I do not think I am an "other" either. The official definition of Black or African American makes me tick the box.

My kids will of course self identify as African Americans on any forms, without sharing my reticence.

The box usually has Black or African American (as you state). So, it's not a matter of being both, but rather are you one of the other.

Is your husband AA? If not, why would your kids be AA?

Because her kids are presumably born in America and the will be raised in America(I'm also assuming) so this will sufficiently make them African Americans. Just like 2nd generation Asian, Italians, Mexicans born and bred in America all add "-American"

Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Really? who made this rule exactly because I've never heard of it. Can you show me where it's written in the United States Code?

In that case, my neighbors will be "South-African-American", doesn't quite flow well. "Cameroonian-American", "Ugandan-American" "Senegalese-American". I think all these would probably garner a eye-roll from people, followed by -what, you think you're too good to be African-American?-

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Well it is nice you made up this definition while sitting around your dining room table...you can't project your own definition onto everyone. African America refers to Americans with Sub Saharan African heritage. There is no requirement that the ancestors were slaves. Many of them were of course but others came under different circumstances.

Where did you get your definition from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Sub Saharan Africans. I do not identify as AAs, but then I do not think I am an "other" either. The official definition of Black or African American makes me tick the box.

My kids will of course self identify as African Americans on any forms, without sharing my reticence.

The box usually has Black or African American (as you state). So, it's not a matter of being both, but rather are you one of the other.

Is your husband AA? If not, why would your kids be AA?

Because her kids are presumably born in America and the will be raised in America(I'm also assuming) so this will sufficiently make them African Americans. Just like 2nd generation Asian, Italians, Mexicans born and bred in America all add "-American"

Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Really? who made this rule exactly because I've never heard of it. Can you show me where it's written in the United States Code?

In that case, my neighbors will be "South-African-American", doesn't quite flow well. "Cameroonian-American", "Ugandan-American" "Senegalese-American". I think all these would probably garner a eye-roll from people, followed by -what, you think you're too good to be African-American?-

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

This. Reminds me of : http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/221612.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:do you consider people from countries in north Africa (e.g. Morocco, Libya, Egypt, etc.) to be African?

Is is appropriate for Americans from north African countries to check off African American on a college application?

kaddafi was the King of Africa. He considered himself African. Why do Americans get to choose who is and is not African. When you look at a map, is Morocco, Egypt, Tunisa, and Egypt on the continent of Africa. If your answer is yes, then the people from those countries are African.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do you consider people from countries in north Africa (e.g. Morocco, Libya, Egypt, etc.) to be African?

Is is appropriate for Americans from north African countries to check off African American on a college application?

kaddafi was the King of Africa. He considered himself African. Why do Americans get to choose who is and is not African. When you look at a map, is Morocco, Egypt, Tunisa, and Egypt on the continent of Africa. If your answer is yes, then the people from those countries are African.

New poster, because these natives do not identify as African is what people are saying. It is insulting to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Well it is nice you made up this definition while sitting around your dining room table...you can't project your own definition onto everyone. African America refers to Americans with Sub Saharan African heritage. There is no requirement that the ancestors were slaves. Many of them were of course but others came under different circumstances.

Where did you get your definition from?

I also want to know where this definition came from. I also saw some similar sentiments on one of the "ask me anything" threads. I thought African American was simply a replacement term for black (I am AA by the way). That's the way I remember it when it first came into use, and it makes sense that any American with sub-saharan African heritage could use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:African American is a term that applies to US blacks whose ancestors were brought over during slavery. We don't have a reliable way to trace our exact country of origin in Africa, so African America is a nod/tribute to our ancestors who toiled in the US.

African American does not apply to: African immigrants, Jamaicans, Haitians, Bahamians, white people from Africa, etc. It ONLY applies to US blacks whose ancestors were enslaved in the US.

Where did this rule come from. It seems another way to divide. The African slavery trade ran heavily through the Bahamas, Haiti, Jamaica, Trinidad, Anquilla, etc. I know it is called the Carribbean, but are they not also a part of the Americas. If they are also considered a part of the Americas, why are they not African Americans. Again, I just think it is another way to divide. And the people from these countries can know more pinpoint the exact origin in Africa from which they hailed than you can. But those slave ships put all those people on the same ships until they overflowed to capacity and then did drop offs up and down the Atlantic Ocean coast.

[Anonymous]

Bottom line is people should be allowed to self-identify. It's downright creepy if you demand someone call themselves black or AA or fill-in-the-blank if they don't want to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The more interesting question is, "Do they consider themselves African?"

It made my (African) husband C R A Z Y that Ethiopians generally don't identify as "African" but as "Ethiopian."

It's a fascinating dynamic, really.

Politically, some Libyans may identify as "African." I can't see Tunisians or non-Berber Moroccans doing the same thing. And, I'm kind of tickled when I think of their reactions should you ever pose the question directly.

My DH is Nigerian. He does not want to be identified or associated with AAs. He has strong opinions in the matter.

You mean like being associated with Nigerian scammers. Or Northern Nigerians hacking the limbs off Southern Nigerians for religious reasons and oil, of course. Yes, I can understand why your husband enjoys storng opinions. He really needs to check himself if he does not want to others to look askance in his direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line is people should be allowed to self-identify. It's downright creepy if you demand someone call themselves black or AA or fill-in-the-blank if they don't want to do so.

I agree, those boxes are useless, why not just fill in the blank?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Sub Saharan Africans. I do not identify as AAs, but then I do not think I am an "other" either. The official definition of Black or African American makes me tick the box.

My kids will of course self identify as African Americans on any forms, without sharing my reticence.

The box usually has Black or African American (as you state). So, it's not a matter of being both, but rather are you one of the other.

Is your husband AA? If not, why would your kids be AA?

Because her kids are presumably born in America and the will be raised in America(I'm also assuming) so this will sufficiently make them African Americans. Just like 2nd generation Asian, Italians, Mexicans born and bred in America all add "-American"

Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

My husband is also Sub Saharan African. My children feel they are African American. That is enough for me. I am not into splitting hairs and I do not really care. I did not know being African American implied having ancestors who were slaves in America. First time I hear of this.

Somebody made this crap up, and it does not fly with everybody who happened to be born on the shores of North America whose ancestors were enslaved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My husband is also Sub Saharan African. My children feel they are African American. That is enough for me. I am not into splitting hairs and I do not really care. I did not know being African American implied having ancestors who were slaves in America. First time I hear of this.

Not saying you should "split hairs". Just want people to actually understand. A lot of people don't know what the term African American means.

But yes, it specifically applies to US blacks whose ancestors were slaves in America. Because of the separation of families, etc, there's no conclusive way for African-Americans to trace our country of origin in Africa. As such, we use the term African-American to both honor our ancestors and to make a connection to our past in Africa without benefit of knowing from where exactly.

If your husband is from Kenya, for instance. He knows his country of origin. His ancestors were not slaves in America. As such, he is not African American....he is Kenyan and/or Kenyan-American. Unless you are an African American yourself, your children aren't either.

Now they can choose to self-identify however you please (Obama does). Doesn't make it a true/accurate identification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Sub Saharan Africans. I do not identify as AAs, but then I do not think I am an "other" either. The official definition of Black or African American makes me tick the box.

My kids will of course self identify as African Americans on any forms, without sharing my reticence.

The box usually has Black or African American (as you state). So, it's not a matter of being both, but rather are you one of the other.

Is your husband AA? If not, why would your kids be AA?

Because her kids are presumably born in America and the will be raised in America(I'm also assuming) so this will sufficiently make them African Americans. Just like 2nd generation Asian, Italians, Mexicans born and bred in America all add "-American"

Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

The children are of African descent, and therefore African-Americans.

No, not at all true. Did you even read the definition of an African American within this thread?

Yes, her children are of African descent....but these ancestors were not slaves in America. Her children are Kenyan/Nigerian/etc-American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Sub Saharan Africans. I do not identify as AAs, but then I do not think I am an "other" either. The official definition of Black or African American makes me tick the box.

My kids will of course self identify as African Americans on any forms, without sharing my reticence.

The box usually has Black or African American (as you state). So, it's not a matter of being both, but rather are you one of the other.

Is your husband AA? If not, why would your kids be AA?

Because her kids are presumably born in America and the will be raised in America(I'm also assuming) so this will sufficiently make them African Americans. Just like 2nd generation Asian, Italians, Mexicans born and bred in America all add "-American"

Not true. Unless her husband is African American (the descendent of US black slaves), her children are not African American. Being 2, 3, 4 etc generation does not convert you into being an African American. You either have ancestors who were slaves in America (and are thereby African American) or you didn't (and thereby you aren't African American). You can't have one without the other. Her children will be (whatever country she's from)-American or simply "Black".

Really? who made this rule exactly because I've never heard of it. Can you show me where it's written in the United States Code?

In that case, my neighbors will be "South-African-American", doesn't quite flow well. "Cameroonian-American", "Ugandan-American" "Senegalese-American". I think all these would probably garner a eye-roll from people, followed by -what, you think you're too good to be African-American?-

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Please educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American

It's not about being too good or not good enough. What is your problem?

Do you also have a problem with those who consider themselves Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc. Do you insist that they say Europe-American, Asian-American?

All of the labels that you describe are accurate. Being a tongue twister doesn't mean it doesn't apply.