Norway's child protective service and Indian immigrants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does "hand fed" mean?

Are you serious????



Some cultures eat with their hands, you know?

Ummmm, yes.

I'm not the PP but I'm wondering what "hand fed" means in this context? Are they feeding the baby table food or something? I find it hard to believe that Norweigians think that eating without utensils is so abusive that they would take someone's children away for doing so.

It's common in South Asian cultures for a mother or nanny to feed children by hand, as in they might take a small amount of rice and lentils or whatever dish in their right hand and feed it to the child. Usually the strange part to people who are not used to this is that even children who are old enough to eat on their own using utensils might be fed this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Try reading the Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, or German press--quite a different story than the Indian one is telling.

I am actually curious to learn what they are saying. Are they giving some other facts and reasons that shed more light on the decision and ongoing resistance to releasing the children to family? Would you be willing to share what you have read in the European press?

[Anonymous]

I'd also be interested in what the European press is saying. There are always two sides to the story. Any links?

[Anonymous]

The British press reports have been relatively similar to the original post.

[Anonymous]

No, Mrs Early Assumption. I'm not talking about India. Why did you think I was?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, true.

If you did 2 nights of CIO in my coutry they'd take your kids away no questions asked if the neighbor reported you. And all your fellow American moms would be here defending you.

What country are you talking about? Are you talking about India? Are you kidding me? I'm Indian, and that's not how it works.

Your neighbor would call the police. You would bribe the police. The police would happily accept said bribe, and not bother you anymore.

Get real. India is the country where you're not even allowed to find out the gender of your baby, because they are afraid you will abort it if it's a female! It's a country where there is still a caste system. Please. And, some of my Indian relatives are the MOST xenophobic people in the world. Maybe Indians can express some of their outrage at what goes on in their own home country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, Mrs Early Assumption. I'm not talking about India. Why did you think I was?

Maybe because this entire thread is about an Indian family?

What country were you referring to then? Two posters asked and you did not respond. I'll guess you were just making shit up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, Mrs Early Assumption. I'm not talking about India. Why did you think I was?

Maybe because this entire thread is about an Indian family?

What country were you referring to then? Two posters asked and you did not respond. I'll guess you were just making shit up.

Ha! God forbid she walk away from DCUM on a Saturday! How dare she not respond!

[Anonymous]

All I keep seeing is that the child was exhibiting behavior problems in school. What type of problems? I could see if the authorities were suspecting child molestation or something, how they could be concerned that the child was sharing a bed with his father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, Mrs Early Assumption. I'm not talking about India. Why did you think I was?

Maybe because this entire thread is about an Indian family?

What country were you referring to then? Two posters asked and you did not respond. I'll guess you were just making shit up.

Ha! God forbid she walk away from DCUM on a Saturday! How dare she not respond!

Umm, she just responded, didn't she?

Doesn't really matter anyway. Just making the point that the Indian people might serve themselves better by taking a good luck at their own culture. As would most of us.

[Anonymous]

I'm not understanding some of the PP's points here...

Why is it relevant that Norway has one of the highest standard of living? Does it imply that the government can do no wrong then? Their naming system is asinine. A woman who wishes to name her child, "Molli" with an i instead of "Molly" with a y is required to explained why the deviation from the standard spelling of the name. Huh? I would tell the naming bureau to go f$@* off and move!

A country that values uniformity so much that it suppresses any uniqueness? Then why the great tolerance for gay rights? Why the tolerance for prostitution? Is a significant percentage of their society gay or prostitutes?

And why are PP's bringing up all the negative things about India? Why is that relevant? Just as it truly is irrelevant that Danish naming systems are idiotic and their hypocrisy in their belief of mandating uniformity is obvious, so are all the negative things about India. Yes, India still practices the caste system but only in certain areas of the country. The government doesn't endorse it. Yes, there is a lot of corruption in India but we have asshole American presidential candidates who say things like, "I'm not concerned very much for poor people." We enslaved Africans for years. Our country hasn't and isn't exactly just and fair to all.

Bottom line is Norway can oust this family but they can not hold these children, who are Indian citizens. They should have gotten the Indian government involved. Co sleeping, hand feeding, and wearing ill fitting clothing is part of being Indian. Indians immigrant children are often seen in high water pants and outdated clothing because they honestly don't get western fashion or attire. Children are hand fed even up to 12 years old sometimes. Large extended families will live in small quarters also. It's a part of middle class life there. BUT - the children feel completely loved and cared for.

So I say F@#% Norway and it's decision to remove the children. it is very harmful to remove children that age from their parents in the absence of real physical violence or abuse.

This has made me rethink Norway...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all you people who think Norwegian child protective services has a point saving Norway's superior effing child rearing norms, yeah you know jack! They could have sent the parents and the kids back to where they came from, but no they chose instead to keep the children. The Norwegian CPS has not reported the following charges: co sleeping, hand feeding, and emotional disconnect of the mother (probably post-partum depression), nothing else. All of which suggest she needed help rather than a ruling that allows the parents to see the children a few times a YEAR.

You go live in a welfare state run amok. reminds me of Lisbeth Salander character. no wonder the book struck such a chord. Frankly, f--k Norway. It is now my shit-list.

Quite the braniac, aren't you? Quoting a character from the only Scandinavian novel you know? (Swedish, by the way). Really lends you some credibilty. I bet you might even be able to find Norway on a map. Now please do entertain us all by explaining exactly how that character is even remotely relevant? Can you name some Indian authors to maintain a balance?

Since you asked, and without getting all social sciency, the vaunted welfare state in all of Scandinavia imposes significant costs on society. The reason the Dragon Tattoo character strikes a chord is because the state in the Scandinavian societies is out of control in this respect and while Larsson wrote fiction it essentialized the problem and highlighted it. The scholarly literature is replete with serious interrogation of child-related in Northern Europe (do a google search). Of course, these societies rank high on our quality of life measures, but please remember that we measure quality of life mainly with material factors, but new research, for example, on the economics of happiness (google that as well) suggests that material measures are inadequate yardsticks of human welfare. There is a Swedish politician who says that child protective services should separate homeschooled children from their parents--even though Swedish law allows home-schooling.

Rather than be sarcastic, you should consider the possibility that when states overreach they can be brutal and there is little individuals can do. My frustration with Norway is that they chose the worst possible approach--if these people were so antithetical to their superior child-rearing practices, why not send the family home. Why break up the family in this way? I will pass on your bait to name names.

There was some posting on this thread on moral relativism, but I think misapplied. The Norwegian agency displayed moral relativism--no society yanks children from their mothers based on kind of evidence they have provided in this case. And if they do, they must be stopped, for all our sakes. Co-sleeping is a parenting problem?

You should really read more. Start with url OP included: www.facebook.com/immigrantfamilieschld protective services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So I say F@#% Norway and it's decision to remove the children. it is very harmful to remove children that age from their parents in the absence of real physical violence or abuse.

This has made me rethink Norway...

Are you absolutely positively sure there is no evidence of physical violence or abuse? If that is true, then you are right. But, other than what's been in the Indian media (which could obviously be biased) how do we know for sure that the children were it being harmed? If you have proof that these children were safe and loved, I'd love to hear it. Just as some Indian parent/Greek parents/American parents/Norwegian parents can be wonderful, some can also be horrible. There is always a possibility that these Indian parents were actually mistreating their children. We really don't know for sure either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Try reading the Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, or German press--quite a different story than the Indian one is telling.

I am actually curious to learn what they are saying. Are they giving some other facts and reasons that shed more light on the decision and ongoing resistance to releasing the children to family? Would you be willing to share what you have read in the European press?

Here are two links to an article from Ny Tid, the Norwegian newsweekly. the first is the original, for which you can use Google translator. The second is translated into English and ran in The Hindu. This is a Norwegian press account, and it is chilling, particularly the last paragraph, on visitation:

http://www.nytid.no/nyheter/artikler/20120112/uklar-framtid/

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2829408.ece

[Anonymous]

That is chilling. This article also does not seem to give any indication of physical or sexual abuse or trauma (except for the mother having hit her child at some point). The main reasons seem to be that the parents didn't have the "right" gear at home or were not following what Norway might consider to be best practice.

And while I understand that individuals living in other countries must abide by their laws, the reasons given here (as reiterated by the County Board) don't seem to justify the severity of the punishment. If having less space, no changing table, inappropriate toys can be reasons to take kids away from parents until the age of 18, what do poorer families do?

[Anonymous]

If you don't like it, then f uck off. Norway is hardly begging for Indian immigrants. Please.