what is a good denomination for an ex-Catholic?

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm leaving too. Sunday School is the last straw. I hate the messages that it sends to my children.

I love the Presbyterian Church. I feel so much more comfortable there. Officially converting at the end of this school year.

[Anonymous]

OP - I believe you mentioned you liked "bells and smells". Then you should look for an Anglo-Catholic church. There is one in Georgetown, Alexandria and numerous other areas. This is not to be confused with Anglican, which is what I am. We don't do bells and smells, pray to Saints, believe in Transubstantion or have formal confession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I believe you mentioned you liked "bells and smells". Then you should look for an Anglo-Catholic church. There is one in Georgetown, Alexandria and numerous other areas. This is not to be confused with Anglican, which is what I am. We don't do bells and smells, pray to Saints, believe in Transubstantion or have formal confession.

Catholics do not pray to saints. They ask saints to pray for them.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/praying-to-the-saints

[Anonymous]

I started out on a journey to learn more about the bible. I attended catholic schools through college and felt I knew very little. So I attended a bible study group at a Methodist church. I found I knew almost nothing about the teachings in the bible. The people were friendly and not judgemental. The friends I have made have greatly enriched my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PP, much food for thought. I actually believe the truth about God is found everywhere, in varying degrees.

But Jesus did establish his Church, with Peter as its head. ("You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church.") He gave him the key, authority. And he promised the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church.

And Jesus was explicit about transubstantiation. So much so, that most of his followers walked away in shock. Jesus asked Peter if he, too, would leave over this hard teaching. Peter replied, "To whom should we go? You have the words of eternal life."

Lastly, the Anglican communion differs in more ways than transubstantiation, from what I understand. What creed do you say at your services? I honestly don't know.

Jesus may not have established his Church with Peter as head.
A reconstructed Aramaic/Syriac of the passage would properly be:
"You are KE'PHA' (a movable stone) and upon this SHU`A' (a large massive rock) I will build my church."
This is in exact correspondence to the original inspired Greek text:
"You are PETROS (a movable stone) and upon this PETRA (a large massive rock) I will build my church."

Translated correctly, the rock is either Peter's confession of Christ, or Christ Himself, in Peter's answer to Jesus' earlier question "Who do men say that I the Son of man am?" Peter is NOT the Rock. If you think about it, why would the Son of God and Son of Man give one man the key? It makes much more sense, given all other scripture, that the Church teaches that the path to salvation is through Christ, not through Church. You also need to look at the origins of the word Church. It was also mis-translated and misused along the way. The Greek wording is not what we consider "Churhc", but "pertaining to the Lord" or "belonging to the Lord." Therefore, Jesus did not establish a Church by our modern interpretation of the word.

If you read all of John 6, the entire passage makes the picture clearer.
"35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

- Many turned away because they still did not accept that Jesus was Son of God.

Anglicans use the Nicene creed, with minor differences to American English Roman Catholic version, none which changes tenants of faith.
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

This is a tortured logic that is based upon some really interesting hermaneutics. You ignore the entire context of the conversation between Jesus and Peter. The context is that Peter has just professed that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus then gives him a huge compliment indicating that Peter's confession of this was a divinely inspired gift from God. That is the context. Jesus is talking about Peter, the man, and is praising his confession. If he is not building his Church upon that individual man, then why would he speak of giving him the keys to the kingdom? What could that language possibly mean if that sentence is not connected to the earlier conversation about Peter's confession?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I'm a lapsed Catholic who attends a Catholic church. Once the kids came along and it was time to start CCD, we joined our local parish and started to attend. While I don't support many of the church's teachings (likely the same ones you take issue with -- plus I'm pro-choice), I was raised Catholic and feel at home in a Catholic church so I've decided that I won't let the jerks running the religion to keep me from my faith. I focus on the social justice aspects of the religion (finding poverty, helping your fellow man) and roll my eyes at the rest. And I teach my kids my own brand of Catholocism (sort of like Jesuit-lite). So far, so good. Practicing your faith is a personal journey -- do what's best for you.

Why would you attend a Church run by "jerks"? Why not find a denomination whose moral teaching authority you recognize?

[Anonymous]

Catholics do not pray to saints. They ask saints to pray for them.

And how exactly does that asking take place. Oh right, in a prayer. I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church considers the Hail Mary and the Memorare to be prayers -- and they are addressed to Mary, not to God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Catholics do not pray to saints. They ask saints to pray for them.

And how exactly does that asking take place. Oh right, in a prayer. I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church considers the Hail Mary and the Memorare to be prayers -- and they are addressed to Mary, not to God.

I ask my family and friends to pray for me, and that a prayer only in the literal sense of that term (a request, e.g. "pray tell"). It is no different from asking St. Anthony to pray for me. He is part of the communion of saints.

What you wrote is your opinion, not the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. The Catechism of which states in relevant part:

"ARTICLE 3
GUIDES FOR PRAYER

A cloud of witnesses

2683 The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom,41 especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer by the example of their lives, the transmission of their writings, and their prayer today. They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. When they entered into the joy of their Master, they were "put in charge of many things."42 Their intercession is their most exalted service to God's plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world."

The Hail Mary includes the words, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"

Pray for us.

[Anonymous]

The Hail Mary includes the words, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"

Pray for us.

OK, but here are the words of the Memorare:

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Amen.

There is no "pray for us" -- it's asking Mary to take direct action ("hear and answer me"). Catholics pray to saints. The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The Hail Mary includes the words, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"

Pray for us.

OK, but here are the words of the Memorare:

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Amen.

There is no "pray for us" -- it's asking Mary to take direct action ("hear and answer me"). Catholics pray to saints. The end.

So you have more authority than the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Is that what you are saying?

[Anonymous]

So you have more authority than the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Is that what you are saying?

Nope. Just saying that Catholics pray to saints. Not sure why you are offended by that statement. It's the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PP, much food for thought. I actually believe the truth about God is found everywhere, in varying degrees.

But Jesus did establish his Church, with Peter as its head. ("You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church.") He gave him the key, authority. And he promised the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church.

And Jesus was explicit about transubstantiation. So much so, that most of his followers walked away in shock. Jesus asked Peter if he, too, would leave over this hard teaching. Peter replied, "To whom should we go? You have the words of eternal life."

Lastly, the Anglican communion differs in more ways than transubstantiation, from what I understand. What creed do you say at your services? I honestly don't know.

Jesus may not have established his Church with Peter as head.
A reconstructed Aramaic/Syriac of the passage would properly be:
"You are KE'PHA' (a movable stone) and upon this SHU`A' (a large massive rock) I will build my church."
This is in exact correspondence to the original inspired Greek text:
"You are PETROS (a movable stone) and upon this PETRA (a large massive rock) I will build my church."

Translated correctly, the rock is either Peter's confession of Christ, or Christ Himself, in Peter's answer to Jesus' earlier question "Who do men say that I the Son of man am?" Peter is NOT the Rock. If you think about it, why would the Son of God and Son of Man give one man the key? It makes much more sense, given all other scripture, that the Church teaches that the path to salvation is through Christ, not through Church. You also need to look at the origins of the word Church. It was also mis-translated and misused along the way. The Greek wording is not what we consider "Churhc", but "pertaining to the Lord" or "belonging to the Lord." Therefore, Jesus did not establish a Church by our modern interpretation of the word.

If you read all of John 6, the entire passage makes the picture clearer.
"35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

- Many turned away because they still did not accept that Jesus was Son of God.

Anglicans use the Nicene creed, with minor differences to American English Roman Catholic version, none which changes tenants of faith.
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

This is a tortured logic that is based upon some really interesting hermaneutics. You ignore the entire context of the conversation between Jesus and Peter. The context is that Peter has just professed that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus then gives him a huge compliment indicating that Peter's confession of this was a divinely inspired gift from God. That is the context. Jesus is talking about Peter, the man, and is praising his confession. If he is not building his Church upon that individual man, then why would he speak of giving him the keys to the kingdom? What could that language possibly mean if that sentence is not connected to the earlier conversation about Peter's confession?

I have been reading this back and forth and it is very interesting to me. To the person who started it--and I think posted the last response--I don't understand your intent. You seem to say "I mean no offense to everyone on here who isn't catholic but now let me start to offend you." Go ahead and be Catholic and enjoy it but keep in mind this is a posting about a person who has left your faith and is looking for a new way to explore his/her relationship with God. Catholicism is not the only faith. Jesus didn't create the Pope, Cardinals, Jesuits, Rosary Beads, etc. so please simmer down with your sanctimonious attitude that the Catholic Church was first and therefore is the only legitimate Church. Like ALL faiths, it is chock full of trappings and ritual that helps to emphasize and teach but many of its customs came into being way after Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is a tortured logic that is based upon some really interesting hermaneutics. You ignore the entire context of the conversation between Jesus and Peter. The context is that Peter has just professed that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus then gives him a huge compliment indicating that Peter's confession of this was a divinely inspired gift from God. That is the context. Jesus is talking about Peter, the man, and is praising his confession. If he is not building his Church upon that individual man, then why would he speak of giving him the keys to the kingdom? What could that language possibly mean if that sentence is not connected to the earlier conversation about Peter's confession?

I have been reading this back and forth and it is very interesting to me. To the person who started it--and I think posted the last response--I don't understand your intent. You seem to say "I mean no offense to everyone on here who isn't catholic but now let me start to offend you." Go ahead and be Catholic and enjoy it but keep in mind this is a posting about a person who has left your faith and is looking for a new way to explore his/her relationship with God. Catholicism is not the only faith. Jesus didn't create the Pope, Cardinals, Jesuits, Rosary Beads, etc. so please simmer down with your sanctimonious attitude that the Catholic Church was first and therefore is the only legitimate Church. Like ALL faiths, it is chock full of trappings and ritual that helps to emphasize and teach but many of its customs came into being way after Jesus.

I'm the PP who posted the last response and several others in this thread. My intent is to explain Catholicism as best I can. I don't mean to be sanctimonious and if it comes accross that way, consider this my apology to you for that tone. I think it is the limits of the written word on a message board. I think if you heard me in a spoken conversation, you likely would not take away that I am sanctimonious (at least I hope you wouldn't).

I do admit that I find some irritation in those who state that they disagree with the teaching of the Church on topic "X" and then misstate those teachings. I have said in other threads that I think all people have a potential path to salvation. That is not reserved solely for Catholics, or for Christians of other denominations. I consider myself to be a very "ecuminical" person.

Now to your criticisms, or statements about Catholicism;that Jesus did not create Pope, the Cardinals, etc. Catholics are quite convinced, based on scripture (can give you the cites if you wish) that Jesus founded a church. That he put men in charge of this church. That he promised the Holy Spirit would guide this church (this does not mean the Church has not had some really awful leaders at very points, but that is a digression). As such, we believe in the authority of this Church to teach on matters of faith and morals. Because we believe in that authority, we believe that the Church had and has the ability to do things such as name the Bishop of Rome "the Pope" and have all the other Bishops defer to him. We believe that this authority allowed the men of the early Church to set the canon of scripture. Because we believe in the authority of the Church to teach on matters of faith and morals, many other things follow from that. The fact that many rituals and things came into place after Jesus' ressurrection is kinda meaningless to most Catholics. We believe the Church is apostolic and that the men who lead it now derived their authority from their predecessors going back to the twelve apostles.

Once the reformation occurred (and I am a catholic who is certain the Church needed reforming at that time) and the authority of the Church was denied, then all bets are off. Once this authority was denied it set the stage for the endless number of Christian denominations we have today. I think that is a shame and I pray for Christian unity. So, I hope you think I'm simmered down. I enjoy discussions about faith, theology, scripture, and religion. I am devout in my own beliefs. If I was not firmly convinced of them, I'd go find another denomination.

I hope you have a great day.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I messed up the quote, within a quote, within a quote in trying to pare down that last post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So you have more authority than the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Is that what you are saying?

Nope. Just saying that Catholics pray to saints. Not sure why you are offended by that statement. It's the truth.

Not offended. The facts are what they are under the Catechism, which makes it clear that it is not the truth.

Not sure why you are so attached to misrepresenting what Catholics do.