Question for atheists RE: 9/11

[Anonymous]

I don't understand OP, how you can still believe after hearing the victims scream OH GOD...and him answer them with death. The idea that God would hear them and let them die in fear and pain after they called out to him as some part of his great awesome plan? That is what scares me most about God. I hope he's not real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The potential to do "evil" exists in all of us. Don't kid yourselves.

Why does everyone keep putting "evil" in quotes?

Bc is somewhat subjective.

*it is *

[Anonymous]

A few points:

1. Atheists are moral and compassionate people. You should get to know us.

2. Many atheists are also (secular) humanists (in name, belief, or practice) who believe that morals/justice are derived from the responsibility we have to each other. Good/Evil aren’t terms often used – but humanists are able to determine what is right and what is wrong based on morals and ethics not derived from a religious/divine source, but social compacts and our pursuit of good will, tolerance, and peace:
http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_II and http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

3. The Law of Conservation of Mass and the Law of the Conservation of Energy answer your question about what happened to people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass. Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only rearranged. A block of ice melts, it loses its properties as ice, but gains properties of being water. The molecules are the same but the arrangement has changed.

When we live, our bodies are constantly rearranging atoms and molecules. The donut your mom ate when she was pregnant with you is now part of your brain. The water you drank this morning as part of your coffee was partly a grizzly bear’s urine, etc. and so on. So too when people die by way of decomposition, decay, and cremation. Those atoms and molecules (if you’re lucky to not be trapped in a box for all eternity) are reabsorbed into the universe.

Ashes picked up on the wind and spread over hundreds of miles have limitless possibilities and they might’ve already found new homes, or even experienced a few more cycles of birth and rebirth.

As for energy – the soul, if you will – that makes a person who they are; their neural pathways and movement through this world, that still remains as well. When a person dies, the heat from their body is slowly removed into the world around them and they grow cold. That energy moves faster than you can see and is once again absorbed in the world around it.

Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only rearranged.
When people die, the laws of physics and thermodynamics state that they are never fully removed from this world. We just might not recognize their presence.

It’s not an afterlife. It’s just regular life. Beautiful and awe-inspiring just as it comes without any need for any story/“ology” to explain what science cannot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand OP, how you can still believe after hearing the victims scream OH GOD...and him answer them with death. The idea that God would hear them and let them die in fear and pain after they called out to him as some part of his great awesome plan? That is what scares me most about God. I hope he's not real.

me too, otherwise he/she is downright cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The potential to do "evil" exists in all of us. Don't kid yourselves.

Why does everyone keep putting "evil" in quotes?

Well I haven't been putting evil in quotes but I think it probably belongs in quotes. The reason for this is because it is a very extreme subjective term. One person's "evil" might be another person's "heroism." For atheists, there is a very strong implication of religion in the term. I very rarely ever use the term but I would in the case of 9-11. On the other hand, the terrorists thought they were following God's will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few points:

1. Atheists are moral and compassionate people. You should get to know us.

2. Many atheists are also (secular) humanists (in name, belief, or practice) who believe that morals/justice are derived from the responsibility we have to each other. Good/Evil aren’t terms often used – but humanists are able to determine what is right and what is wrong based on morals and ethics not derived from a religious/divine source, but social compacts and our pursuit of good will, tolerance, and peace:
http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_II and http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

3. The Law of Conservation of Mass and the Law of the Conservation of Energy answer your question about what happened to people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass. Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only rearranged. A block of ice melts, it loses its properties as ice, but gains properties of being water. The molecules are the same but the arrangement has changed.

When we live, our bodies are constantly rearranging atoms and molecules. The donut your mom ate when she was pregnant with you is now part of your brain. The water you drank this morning as part of your coffee was partly a grizzly bear’s urine, etc. and so on. So too when people die by way of decomposition, decay, and cremation. Those atoms and molecules (if you’re lucky to not be trapped in a box for all eternity) are reabsorbed into the universe.

Ashes picked up on the wind and spread over hundreds of miles have limitless possibilities and they might’ve already found new homes, or even experienced a few more cycles of birth and rebirth.

As for energy – the soul, if you will – that makes a person who they are; their neural pathways and movement through this world, that still remains as well. When a person dies, the heat from their body is slowly removed into the world around them and they grow cold. That energy moves faster than you can see and is once again absorbed in the world around it.

Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only rearranged.
When people die, the laws of physics and thermodynamics state that they are never fully removed from this world. We just might not recognize their presence.

It’s not an afterlife. It’s just regular life. Beautiful and awe-inspiring just as it comes without any need for any story/“ology” to explain what science cannot.

I believe that you and I might have been reading some of the same books on Quantum physics. This stuff helps a weirdly spiritual atheist such as myself find some logical explanations for spiritual occurrences in my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few points:

1. Atheists are moral and compassionate people. You should get to know us.

2. Many atheists are also (secular) humanists (in name, belief, or practice) who believe that morals/justice are derived from the responsibility we have to each other. Good/Evil aren’t terms often used – but humanists are able to determine what is right and what is wrong based on morals and ethics not derived from a religious/divine source, but social compacts and our pursuit of good will, tolerance, and peace:
http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_II and http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

3. The Law of Conservation of Mass and the Law of the Conservation of Energy answer your question about what happened to people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass. Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only rearranged. A block of ice melts, it loses its properties as ice, but gains properties of being water. The molecules are the same but the arrangement has changed.

When we live, our bodies are constantly rearranging atoms and molecules. The donut your mom ate when she was pregnant with you is now part of your brain. The water you drank this morning as part of your coffee was partly a grizzly bear’s urine, etc. and so on. So too when people die by way of decomposition, decay, and cremation. Those atoms and molecules (if you’re lucky to not be trapped in a box for all eternity) are reabsorbed into the universe.

Ashes picked up on the wind and spread over hundreds of miles have limitless possibilities and they might’ve already found new homes, or even experienced a few more cycles of birth and rebirth.

As for energy – the soul, if you will – that makes a person who they are; their neural pathways and movement through this world, that still remains as well. When a person dies, the heat from their body is slowly removed into the world around them and they grow cold. That energy moves faster than you can see and is once again absorbed in the world around it.

Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only rearranged.
When people die, the laws of physics and thermodynamics state that they are never fully removed from this world. We just might not recognize their presence.

It’s not an afterlife. It’s just regular life. Beautiful and awe-inspiring just as it comes without any need for any story/“ology” to explain what science cannot.

I believe that you and I might have been reading some of the same books on Quantum physics. This stuff helps a weirdly spiritual atheist such as myself find some logical explanations for spiritual occurrences in my life.

But it's putting humans on par with the said block of ice, and that's where you lose me. In all of creation, only humans are able to make a choice between good and evil. And that counts for something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you lost anyone close to you? If so, do you never feel that the spirit of that person is with you?

Yes, I've lost. I retain strong memories of and feelings for that person. But I don't believe any spirit or soul remains. Not believing in some spirit world does not make his death any less tragic or painful to me, and I don't think believing in a spirit world would lessen the pain.

If you've ever lost a close pet, maybe you'll understand how I feel. You probably remember your cat with great emotion, and you mourn her death. But unless you believe in "kitty heaven" where all animals go (even the cows that we kill and eat?), then you've probably accepted that Fluffy simply died and is gone now. Of course, I'm not equating the death of a person with the death of a cat, but rather just trying to explain how it feels for me.

Do "believers" find September 11 less tragic because they believe in some spirit world? Do believers have less desire to bring terrorists to justice, simply because they can believe that the victims are in heaven? Did believers cry less than I did when my father died? I doubt it.

If a soul is not what differentiates humans and cats, what does?

Along the same line as the secular humanist above, if humans are simply matter and energy, caught up in the pulse of chemical and physical processes, what is special about them?

[Anonymous]

Well, they can think in much more complex ways than other animals, at least to the extent we understand such things. Other than that, why do humans have to be special?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I don't understand that whole differentiation between humans and animals. Most people completely underestimate animals. We're just a different kind of one as far as I'm concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, they can think in much more complex ways than other animals, at least to the extent we understand such things. Other than that, why do humans have to be special?

Should humans live as other high-order mammals do? Cats don't put each other in jail for attacking and maiming each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I don't understand that whole differentiation between humans and animals. Most people completely underestimate animals. We're just a different kind of one as far as I'm concerned.

So why don't we use one another as food? Why do we protect the weak and heal the sick? Why do we care for the elderly? Why do we even notice that it feels wrong to sneak up on someone and hit them over the head? What makes us different from instinctual mammalian behavior?

[Anonymous]

Hey, I just thought of someting! Here is a proof that God is random chance:

1. The Universe exists in three dimensions of space and one direction of time.
2.The Universe had a beginning.
3. Therefore the beginning of the Universe was the beginning of time.
4. Before the beginning of the Universe and the beginning of time, there must have been a chance that there would be a Universe.
5. Anything that exists outside of the Universe must be God.
6. Therefore the chance of a Universe is God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they can think in much more complex ways than other animals, at least to the extent we understand such things. Other than that, why do humans have to be special?

Should humans live as other high-order mammals do? Cats don't put each other in jail for attacking and maiming each other.

They probably have their own punishments. What does it matter? Societal behaviors evolve as much as everything does & there's a lot we don't understand about animals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I don't understand that whole differentiation between humans and animals. Most people completely underestimate animals. We're just a different kind of one as far as I'm concerned.

So why don't we use one another as food? Why do we protect the weak and heal the sick? Why do we care for the elderly? Why do we even notice that it feels wrong to sneak up on someone and hit them over the head? What makes us different from instinctual mammalian behavior?

Eh? Other mammals don't eat eachother (i.e. same species). They also protect the weak and help the sick/elderly ... haven't you ever watched a nature show? Just because it isn't exactly the way we do it doesn't make us so completely special.