Why are private schools not transparent with their test scores?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][b][quote] Many great independent schools will not publicize such data. Here are just a few examples from DC & NY: Sidwell, St Albans, Collegiate, Brearley, and Horace Mann. All are unquestionably top schools, and all are very limited in what data they publicize.[/quote][/b]

This is my point... how do you/we know that the "top" schools are really that great if objective measures are not open for review. The lack of transparency requires parents to rely on reputation, which may or may not be accurate, and many times a very short visit to "get a feel" for the school. As many posters have said, no one is going to make a decision about whether or not to send their child(ren) to a particular school based on test scores alone. That being said, test scores are one componant, and one measure of academic success, among various factors parents should have available to them in making a decision about school(s) for their kids. Also, as others have noted, it is sad that we know more about a school's sport's records than its academic record. And to those who would rather schools not post their academic records, my question is why? I'm not interested in any one student's record, so it's not a privacy issue, I'm interested in how well the student body does as a whole. To gain some insight into how well a school is performing... knowing that it is only one measure among others. [/quote]

I guess I am not interested in what is the "top" school. I am just interested in what school is best for my child.

If you are - you should pick a school with the top scores, most national merit scholars and best college acceptances. Assume the ones that don't publish that information do it for a reason and then you are safe. Unless your kid couldn't care less about testing, ivy leagues and winning an award for being a scholar. - then you are happy and your kid is miserable.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]This is my point... how do you/we know that the "top" schools are really that great if objective measures are not open for review.... [/quote]
How about this?
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnukIDABt_JKdDdZYXlQbnFUQ0VfMHRpTFp1SUIxS2c&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=5

[Anonymous]

First of all, there is a major difference between a school publicizing the test scores of its incoming students (e.g. WPPSI, SSAT, etc.) versus the test scores of its outgoing students (e.g. SAT, AP, ACT). The former tells you nothing about the quality of education offered by the school, it only gives you a hint as to whether or not your kid is likely to get in. The latter, on the other hand, clearly tells you something about the students the school is producing.

What I don't understand is the argument that having more information is somehow a bad thing for prospective parents and students. As if schools who refuse to release test scores are somehow saving prospective families from themselves by forcing the families to look at something other than the raw data. This assumes that parents/students aren't smart enough to decide for themselves the relative importance of the various factors involved in choosing a school. Can you imagine a prospective parent refusing to release his or her child's transcripts when applying to a school, and arguing that "it doesn't matter what his grades are, the important thing is whether he is a good fit for your school."

Subjective factors (things that different people will attach different value to) like "fit," size, location, philosophy, etc. are certainly important in choosing a school. But objective factors like test scores are important too, and might help a family identify good schools that weren't previously on their radar, or overrated schools that are coasting by on reputation.

Schools don't make admissions decisions based solely on test scores or grades-- subjective things like extracurriculars, recommendations, interview, family, etc. are also important-- but you'd never argue that those things are irrelevant. By the same token, parents shouldn't pick a school based solely on graduates' average SAT scores, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have that information.

[Anonymous]

But what is the point of your argument? The schools don't do it. They aren't going to. And thats their choice.

[Anonymous]

17:02 - Thank you for sharing this information. Where did this spread sheet come from?

[Anonymous]

[b][quote]But what is the point of your argument? The schools don't do it. They aren't going to. And thats their choice. [/quote][/b]

Not the pp, but the point of this post is that - private schools (many) do not share objective academic test scores that would allow parents better information to rely on when selecting a school for their child(ren). Just because the schools are not currently transparent with their track record does not mean it is the right thing to do or to continue to do. And while it is their choice not to disclose how well or not they are teaching our children, it does not mean that parents should not continue asking if the information is important to them. What surprises me is how people are willing to "trust" what a school tells them. While test scores are only one measure it is an important measure. If for not other reason, it is an objective measure. Why would anyone want less information when making an important decision like where to entrust their child(ren)'s education?

[Anonymous]

Another poster here who thinks that more information is always better than less information. This applies to so many things, from the nutritional content of the cereal you eat, to the school you send your kid to for 12 years.

What other measures of academic rigor do we have? Sure, lots of privates offer a breadth of fascinating courses -- but do we know if the these classes are rigorous or the teachers are any good?

About the only measure of academic rigor we have is exmissions. But not all schools publicize this (Sidwell doesn't publicize it, for example). Others show five-year averages, and often they publicize only the colleges that take the most of their grads, while omitting the kids that went to tiny schools you never heard of (not that this matters, but the point is this source of information is incomplete). Plus, Ivy placement may be more down to a higher % of legacies, or admitting recruitable athletes, or college counselors who push for their schools' kids.

To the poster who said that posters who want this info are just jealous - guess what, my kid got into a top 3. Some of the other reponses here seem mulish, or even deliberately obtuse (transparency is "different" for private schools? Info on location and tuition is enough?)

For my part, I wonder if some of you are private school administrators!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But what is the point of your argument? The schools don't do it. They aren't going to. And thats their choice.

Like another PP said -

Why should we stop complaining, if it's the right thing to do? Why are you trying to shut us down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A private school is not the government and has no obligation to you or anyone else. The word "transparency" is really a misnomer here.

LMAO! Goldman Sachs is in the private sector. So is General Motors. Do you not want any transparency for these private sector firms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, there is a major difference between a school publicizing the test scores of its incoming students (e.g. WPPSI, SSAT, etc.) versus the test scores of its outgoing students (e.g. SAT, AP, ACT). The former tells you nothing about the quality of education offered by the school, it only gives you a hint as to whether or not your kid is likely to get in. The latter, on the other hand, clearly tells you something about the students the school is producing.

What I don't understand is the argument that having more information is somehow a bad thing for prospective parents and students. As if schools who refuse to release test scores are somehow saving prospective families from themselves by forcing the families to look at something other than the raw data. This assumes that parents/students aren't smart enough to decide for themselves the relative importance of the various factors involved in choosing a school. Can you imagine a prospective parent refusing to release his or her child's transcripts when applying to a school, and arguing that "it doesn't matter what his grades are, the important thing is whether he is a good fit for your school."

Subjective factors (things that different people will attach different value to) like "fit," size, location, philosophy, etc. are certainly important in choosing a school. But objective factors like test scores are important too, and might help a family identify good schools that weren't previously on their radar, or overrated schools that are coasting by on reputation.

Schools don't make admissions decisions based solely on test scores or grades-- subjective things like extracurriculars, recommendations, interview, family, etc. are also important-- but you'd never argue that those things are irrelevant. By the same token, parents shouldn't pick a school based solely on graduates' average SAT scores, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have that information.

Why don't colleges post outgoing students LSAT and GMAT scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is my point... how do you/we know that the "top" schools are really that great if objective measures are not open for review....

How about this?
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?ke...p1SUIxS2c&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=5

Now, D.C. private school defensive and insecure hooters... Was transparency so bad afterall? The world is still here!

Transparency is good for schools and democracy.

Go to school in Libya, China and the old Soviet Union if you dislike transparency

[Anonymous]

I guess I am not interested in what is the "top" school. I am just interested in what school is best for my child.

Good for you, but show me the beef (scores)!

[Anonymous]

...Some private schools are willing to take on more learning difference than other schools - SAT scores probably suffer. Some of those learning differences may not test well but I would not say that the value of their education is less.

Aha, the embedded rationale for why D.C. private educational institutions shudder to release their scores!

[Anonymous]

I guess the righteous feel that too much information is bad for parents (not themselves for they know the importance of D.C. area private schools) and students evaluating schools to attend since they are incapable (unlike themselves) and incompetent (unlike themselves) to properly and appropriately digest this information.

I suspect these same individuals feel the same way about information/data about their physicians results/outcomes, investments, and priests. Just sign the "informed" consent form and send the bill!

Information about student body academic performance and outcomes on tests is simply bad and not necessary for students and others assessing these vaunted private schools.

[Anonymous]

Frankly, in assessing a private educational institution I am more interested in the test scores of the studentry -- not the sports or athletic scores. You may keep the latter scores private.