Accidental child death, prosecute the parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NO! I am saying that people are stretched and busy, so as a result....SOMETIMES mistakes happen. No one wants mistakes, no one, but they happen.

I guess what I was trying to say is that your post really scares me. Running yourself so ragged that you fall asleep on the interstate or leave small children unsupervised for hours on end is not a "mistake." My concern was that your lifestyle in general sounds like it is endangering your children and others (your fellow drivers & their passengers), and that is something that I hope you will try to change. Truly, not trying to judge but this sounds dangerous to me.

I am a working mom of four and I'm stretched and busy too. Now, I'm not a doctor so no one's going to die if I screw up at work, so I don't presume to be under the kind of pressure you're under in your job. And I freely admit I make mistakes every day, plenty of them. I forget to pay a bill or return a phone call. I even forgot one of my kids' doctors appointments recently. But I don't regularly drive around falling asleep at the wheel or pass out on the couch leaving my toddler to run amok for two hours. When that is just part of your daily life, rather than a huge wake-up call that something's gotta give, it is not a "mistake," it's just irresponsible.

And, as has been stated multiple times here, the first time this mom left Ryan in the car was arguably a mistake. The second time, it is a pattern of behavior.

Try to take a step back and look at the general point. The article makes a case that many parents (mothers) are pushing themselves too much. What too much is varies, but sometimes we find out when bad things happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NO! I am saying that people are stretched and busy, so as a result....SOMETIMES mistakes happen. No one wants mistakes, no one, but they happen.

I guess what I was trying to say is that your post really scares me. Running yourself so ragged that you fall asleep on the interstate or leave small children unsupervised for hours on end is not a "mistake." My concern was that your lifestyle in general sounds like it is endangering your children and others (your fellow drivers & their passengers), and that is something that I hope you will try to change. Truly, not trying to judge but this sounds dangerous to me.

I am a working mom of four and I'm stretched and busy too. Now, I'm not a doctor so no one's going to die if I screw up at work, so I don't presume to be under the kind of pressure you're under in your job. And I freely admit I make mistakes every day, plenty of them. I forget to pay a bill or return a phone call. I even forgot one of my kids' doctors appointments recently. But I don't regularly drive around falling asleep at the wheel or pass out on the couch leaving my toddler to run amok for two hours. When that is just part of your daily life, rather than a huge wake-up call that something's gotta give, it is not a "mistake," it's just irresponsible.

And, as has been stated multiple times here, the first time this mom left Ryan in the car was arguably a mistake. The second time, it is a pattern of behavior.

Try to take a step back and look at the general point. The article makes a case that many parents (mothers) are pushing themselves too much. What too much is varies, but sometimes we find out when bad things happen.

But she had fair warning when it happened the first time. That was her wake up call. Yes, the article points out that many of us are overly scheduled and overly tired, etc. This woman had her "slap in the face" and should have made changes accordingly. She didn't. How many chances do people get when it comes to their children's safety? We don't need some blogger pointing out that we're overly scheduled. She had a very dramatic wake up call and she essentially chose to ignore it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NO! I am saying that people are stretched and busy, so as a result....SOMETIMES mistakes happen. No one wants mistakes, no one, but they happen.

I guess what I was trying to say is that your post really scares me. Running yourself so ragged that you fall asleep on the interstate or leave small children unsupervised for hours on end is not a "mistake." My concern was that your lifestyle in general sounds like it is endangering your children and others (your fellow drivers & their passengers), and that is something that I hope you will try to change. Truly, not trying to judge but this sounds dangerous to me.

I am a working mom of four and I'm stretched and busy too. Now, I'm not a doctor so no one's going to die if I screw up at work, so I don't presume to be under the kind of pressure you're under in your job. And I freely admit I make mistakes every day, plenty of them. I forget to pay a bill or return a phone call. I even forgot one of my kids' doctors appointments recently. But I don't regularly drive around falling asleep at the wheel or pass out on the couch leaving my toddler to run amok for two hours. When that is just part of your daily life, rather than a huge wake-up call that something's gotta give, it is not a "mistake," it's just irresponsible.

And, as has been stated multiple times here, the first time this mom left Ryan in the car was arguably a mistake. The second time, it is a pattern of behavior.

Try to take a step back and look at the general point. The article makes a case that many parents (mothers) are pushing themselves too much. What too much is varies, but sometimes we find out when bad things happen.

But she had fair warning when it happened the first time. That was her wake up call. Yes, the article points out that many of us are overly scheduled and overly tired, etc. This woman had her "slap in the face" and should have made changes accordingly. She didn't. How many chances do people get when it comes to their children's safety? We don't need some blogger pointing out that we're overly scheduled. She had a very dramatic wake up call and she essentially chose to ignore it.

OK, but my son almost drowned (pool), I almost drowned (beach), my daughter almost drowned (bath tub) we still go to the pool, and I still occasionally take my eyes off them. I am sure that tons of kids who actually drown had one or two close calls, like many other kids.
The point is that the mom did not see the first incident as a warning. She just focused on I forgot to get the child to daycare.
BTW, I have forgotten to PICK my kids up from daycare, just plain forgot them, then realized at 6 pm when the center called. It happened more than once.
Most of the time when kids are forgotten in cars, they DO NOT die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prosecute her for manslaughter, but not for MURDER. She could spend the rest of her life in prison - how does that benefit society in any way?

Agreed. I have notohing but pity for that woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NO! I am saying that people are stretched and busy, so as a result....SOMETIMES mistakes happen. No one wants mistakes, no one, but they happen.

I guess what I was trying to say is that your post really scares me. Running yourself so ragged that you fall asleep on the interstate or leave small children unsupervised for hours on end is not a "mistake." My concern was that your lifestyle in general sounds like it is endangering your children and others (your fellow drivers & their passengers), and that is something that I hope you will try to change. Truly, not trying to judge but this sounds dangerous to me.

I am a working mom of four and I'm stretched and busy too. Now, I'm not a doctor so no one's going to die if I screw up at work, so I don't presume to be under the kind of pressure you're under in your job. And I freely admit I make mistakes every day, plenty of them. I forget to pay a bill or return a phone call. I even forgot one of my kids' doctors appointments recently. But I don't regularly drive around falling asleep at the wheel or pass out on the couch leaving my toddler to run amok for two hours. When that is just part of your daily life, rather than a huge wake-up call that something's gotta give, it is not a "mistake," it's just irresponsible.

And, as has been stated multiple times here, the first time this mom left Ryan in the car was arguably a mistake. The second time, it is a pattern of behavior.

Try to take a step back and look at the general point. The article makes a case that many parents (mothers) are pushing themselves too much. What too much is varies, but sometimes we find out when bad things happen.

But she had fair warning when it happened the first time. That was her wake up call. Yes, the article points out that many of us are overly scheduled and overly tired, etc. This woman had her "slap in the face" and should have made changes accordingly. She didn't. How many chances do people get when it comes to their children's safety? We don't need some blogger pointing out that we're overly scheduled. She had a very dramatic wake up call and she essentially chose to ignore it.

OK, but my son almost drowned (pool), I almost drowned (beach), my daughter almost drowned (bath tub) we still go to the pool, and I still occasionally take my eyes off them. I am sure that tons of kids who actually drown had one or two close calls, like many other kids.
The point is that the mom did not see the first incident as a warning. She just focused on I forgot to get the child to daycare.
BTW, I have forgotten to PICK my kids up from daycare, just plain forgot them, then realized at 6 pm when the center called. It happened more than once.
Most of the time when kids are forgotten in cars, they DO NOT die.

I think you need to reassess your life as well. I'm sorry, but coming up with these excuses does no one any good. This story should be a huge reassessment for everyone. Every single parent should be reassessing and reevaluating priorities. Not sitting here saying "well, gee, I've FORGOTTEN my kid before, could happen to ANYONE." No. It couldn't. I just happened to you so you think it's normal. It's not. How about you rethink everything going on in your life and figure out what in the hell made you forget you had a child, at a daycare, waiting for you. I'm sorry she didn't take the fact that she forgot her child was in the car as a warning. I'm sorrier for her child that she didn't take it as a warning.

[Anonymous]

Agree with you 21:53.

[Anonymous]

Oh, so now it is the single moms who do crazy things.
I heard that companies that sell life insurance for children are the ones suspecting the parents. And life insurance for children is bought by the wealthier 2 parent families.
How about we prosecute everyone with life insurance for their child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so now it is the single moms who do crazy things.
I heard that companies that sell life insurance for children are the ones suspecting the parents. And life insurance for children is bought by the wealthier 2 parent families.
How about we prosecute everyone with life insurance for their child

I don't think that was a reference to single moms ie unmarried, but single as in "each and every one of us as parents"....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NO! I am saying that people are stretched and busy, so as a result....SOMETIMES mistakes happen. No one wants mistakes, no one, but they happen.

I guess what I was trying to say is that your post really scares me. Running yourself so ragged that you fall asleep on the interstate or leave small children unsupervised for hours on end is not a "mistake." My concern was that your lifestyle in general sounds like it is endangering your children and others (your fellow drivers & their passengers), and that is something that I hope you will try to change. Truly, not trying to judge but this sounds dangerous to me.

I am a working mom of four and I'm stretched and busy too. Now, I'm not a doctor so no one's going to die if I screw up at work, so I don't presume to be under the kind of pressure you're under in your job. And I freely admit I make mistakes every day, plenty of them. I forget to pay a bill or return a phone call. I even forgot one of my kids' doctors appointments recently. But I don't regularly drive around falling asleep at the wheel or pass out on the couch leaving my toddler to run amok for two hours. When that is just part of your daily life, rather than a huge wake-up call that something's gotta give, it is not a "mistake," it's just irresponsible.

And, as has been stated multiple times here, the first time this mom left Ryan in the car was arguably a mistake. The second time, it is a pattern of behavior.

Try to take a step back and look at the general point. The article makes a case that many parents (mothers) are pushing themselves too much. What too much is varies, but sometimes we find out when bad things happen.

But she had fair warning when it happened the first time. That was her wake up call. Yes, the article points out that many of us are overly scheduled and overly tired, etc. This woman had her "slap in the face" and should have made changes accordingly. She didn't. How many chances do people get when it comes to their children's safety? We don't need some blogger pointing out that we're overly scheduled. She had a very dramatic wake up call and she essentially chose to ignore it.

OK, but my son almost drowned (pool), I almost drowned (beach), my daughter almost drowned (bath tub) we still go to the pool, and I still occasionally take my eyes off them. I am sure that tons of kids who actually drown had one or two close calls, like many other kids.
The point is that the mom did not see the first incident as a warning. She just focused on I forgot to get the child to daycare.
BTW, I have forgotten to PICK my kids up from daycare, just plain forgot them, then realized at 6 pm when the center called. It happened more than once.
Most of the time when kids are forgotten in cars, they DO NOT die.

I agree with PP - if you don't think any of the past events you mention where your kids nearly drowned, you've forgotten to pick up your kids from daycare???? as your wake-up call to reevaluate your life and consider how to keep your kids safe, there is something wrong. Please consider figuring out how those mishaps occurred and how to prevent them from ever happening again.

[Anonymous]

OK, but my son almost drowned (pool), I almost drowned (beach), my daughter almost drowned (bath tub) we still go to the pool, and I still occasionally take my eyes off them. I am sure that tons of kids who actually drown had one or two close calls, like many other kids.
The point is that the mom did not see the first incident as a warning. She just focused on I forgot to get the child to daycare.
BTW, I have forgotten to PICK my kids up from daycare, just plain forgot them, then realized at 6 pm when the center called. It happened more than once.
Most of the time when kids are forgotten in cars, they DO NOT die.

This is disturbing, in that your point seems to be that forgetting to pick up your child or almost letting her drown in a bathtub is just part of raising kids. The rest of us read stories like the Murphys' and shake our heads in disbelief and say "how the HELL could she forget her child?!" but your reaction is "hey, it happens to all of us. Heck, I've nearly let my kids drown a couple of times and repeatedly forgotten to pick them up from daycare. I've got a lot going on."

You have come home from work -more than once - and never noticed your child was missing until the phone rang? This is hard to fathom.

Where did you get your info that most kids who are forgotten in cars don't die? In the summer it only takes 30 minutes for the temperature to become lethal.

[Anonymous]

OK, with so many of us lurking here, you knew a "BigLaw" lawyer would show up eventually, right?

I have done the driving and almost nodding off thing. I actually rear-ended somebody once in luckily slow traffic when I fell asleep at a red light. I have stayed up working for three days in a row, or gotten 6 hours of sleep in an entire work week (not per night). Now, to avoid the sleep-driving thing, I take cabs so I do not have to drive in those sorts of stretches. Sometimes crazy stresses result in crazy things people who don't have a job like that won't get, right? With me so far doctor PP and other PP?

But here's the thing: no matter how busy, no matter how crazed, I never got into a car with a child during those times when I knew I was on thin ice, and I never let them almost drown, and I made sure I had appropriate and flexible child care in place that did not involve a comatose me for hours on end as the sole or even key player. My husband has a similar job and also has his busy periods. Our first question every time something crazy happens in each other's schedule is: who is covering the kids? We make sure that we have appropriate and consistent care lined up whenever we can't do it ourselves, and by do it, I mean do it appropriately, not dangerously. And, no, we don't have 24 hour nannies. We never have.

The most neglectful thing I do, now that they have both made it into elementary school without any near drownings or near roastings in cars, is to tell them, when they say they are hungry on weekend mornings when I'm dead tired, that they should get a granola bar and chill until I get a little more sleep. That's a luxury I give myself to even out the mornings I jumped up, no matter what, for the previous seven years.

If you want to burn yourself out at both ends, ok, but the burn comes out of your hide, not the kids. Not ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am just saying that when accidents happen, they are just that, and accident.
Why prosecute.
From what I can tell, only that mother would give her life to bring that child back. The prosecutor, judge, or jurors would not give their lives for her child.

Totally agree that accidents should not be prosecuted. And they usually aren't. But when true negligence is involved, it changes things. The law asks, what would a reasonable person have done under similar circumstances?

This is what is subjective. In hind sight so much looks like "true negligence".

Leaving a small child locked in a car TWICE is negligent. Once is understandable, not acceptable, but understandable, but twice is unforgivable. It wasn't as if that woman's routine had changed since she was the one who always brought her child to daycare.


OP, I have to ask, how do you know so many children that have died. I know three. One drowned (as a teen) while swimming with her dad, one from pertussis, and another died of SIDS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder if the mom had undiagnosed/untreated ADHD. Seriously.....I have it and I'm treated for it but things like this scare the crap out of me because I'm SO MUCH more vulnerable to distraction.

Then please follow some of the simple safety tips, like the stuffed animal in the carseat, purse always goes in the back, diaper bag always goes in front with you, daycare provider MUST call you if child is not dropped off on time (and must speak to you, not just leave a message), etc. These things are so simple and would probably put your mind at ease. Not that I think you would really forget, but it's just an extra layer of security. I'm not particularly distracted, but I do the purse in the backseat, diaper bag up front every time I get in the car. I also do not talk on the phone in the car, at all. I think that definitely leads to distraction.

I do! And I take meds as well. I am hyper vigilant. That being said it still scares the crap out of me because I just don't feel as "in control" as the average person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder if the mom had undiagnosed/untreated ADHD. Seriously.....I have it and I'm treated for it but things like this scare the crap out of me because I'm SO MUCH more vulnerable to distraction.

Then please follow some of the simple safety tips, like the stuffed animal in the carseat, purse always goes in the back, diaper bag always goes in front with you, daycare provider MUST call you if child is not dropped off on time (and must speak to you, not just leave a message), etc. These things are so simple and would probably put your mind at ease. Not that I think you would really forget, but it's just an extra layer of security. I'm not particularly distracted, but I do the purse in the backseat, diaper bag up front every time I get in the car. I also do not talk on the phone in the car, at all. I think that definitely leads to distraction.

I do! And I take meds as well. I am hyper vigilant. That being said it still scares the crap out of me because I just don't feel as "in control" as the average person.

Another thing to add is that I do follow the safety tips mentioned however for someone with severe ADD they are not simple. It takes a lot of energy to accomplish these simple things. FWIW, I have a very successful career and I'm a MENSA member so no trouble with "smarts" but it took me years of practice, well into my late 20's to get discplined enough to put my credit card back into my wallet after using it. Ridiculous!!

All this being said my children are my world. I put every last ounce of mental energy that I have to ensure their safety. I triple check at every turn when it comes to them. I don't take them to busy parks or the pool unless I have taken my medication that day. But, it still hits close to home when I hear a case like this.

Anyways, I am just trying to make sense of this event. As distracted as I am I can't imagine that someone without my problems could do this twice unless they are just a piece of sh*t person or undiagnosed ADD without enough sense to realize something is very wrong.

[Anonymous]

The woman is a vet. I'm guessing she tells her clients not to leave their pets in the car. If she didn't do the math after leaving her son in the car the first time, I just have no words.