At what point do you give up?

[Anonymous]

Does your child have interests?

For example, are there craft kits or toddler Lego sets that your kid will do?

I know mainstream classrooms try to pacify with iPad and so forth.

My question is whether there are activities you could provide to the teacher that are motivational to your kid.

My experience with NT 3 year olds is that you can find motivational tasks for many of them and it's highly individual.

Thinking back on my boys at around that age, I wonder about Snap Circuits and Rainbow Loom rubber band bracelets and more engaging books on topics they wanted to read about. Reading skills also suggests memorization is possible. What about math fact drill games (flash cards, physical puzzles, electronic hand-held, or apps? Maybe if you abandon all pretense of formal curriculum (worksheets, etc.), and just try to match the subject (do an addition app during math time), something might spark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Troll

Doesn't seem like a troll to me. Sounds like a frustrated parent but also a parent who is likely coming to terms with the fact that their child won't get to the level they were hoping they would with all these interventions. It's still a difficult thing to process.

Hopefully there are better programs available and OP should certainly look into it. BUT to the extent the issue is behavioral I think taking a closer look at what is going on is important. A classroom observation or several to really understand what is going on could be helpful to reset. In my experience the tenor of the communication coming home from school created an impression of total dysfunction that was not really the case. Schools just tend to communicate in an escalated manner and don’t communicate the positives or overall picture.

OP here. I've had pretty good relationships with his classroom teachers and special educators. I've had some classroom visits, and if anything, the situation is worse than they say. Completely ignores most instructions or questions and wanders around the room frequently. With 1:1 attention, he might get half-way a worksheet/project, but with absolutely no regard to doing it correctly.

I've never before met anyone in my life who literally does not care what you say or think. Whether you're mad or happy toward him, he doesn't care at all. I wish I was exaggerating. Even rewards don't work on him.

If the rewards aren’t working then you have a motivation issue not a learning issue and that won’t be addressed in mainstream. I’d call an IEP, hire a lawyer, take your team with you, and fight for adequate services. You’re doing him a disservice as it stands.

Calling a meeting doesn't help if there isn't an ask. We've been working with his therapists and doctors for years trying to find something that might help. The mainstream setting isn't good, but the guidance we've gotten is that a self-contained program would be worse for him.

Who has given this guidance? It's possible they are right, and what you need to do is to explore increasing and changing the kinds of supports he is getting in gen ed. It's also possible that they are wrong.

Rewards not working is not a sign that it's a motivation issue, and even if it were, you can work on motivation in a mainstream setting.

His BCBA, speech therapist, occupational therapist, developmental pediatrician, and child psychiatrist.

They might all be wrong, but they have a lot of experience working with him.

[Anonymous]

Homeschool

[Anonymous]

What if without the therapy he would be worse? Thats what I worry about with my son. Over time he has gotten better - I have no idea if that was just hormones, medication or therapy.

I’m too afraid to give up therapy incase things get worse.

I’m sorry you have to deal with this. You know your child best.

[Anonymous]

OP, this sounds really hard. I haven’t been exactly where you have been but I will offer my first thoughts most as commiseration. I have an older child with SN and a younger child with a physical disability. The way doctors and professionals have talked to us about the two different scenarios is night and day. With my child with SN we were given constant scare tactics and told we absolutely had to do a million therapies RIGHT NOW. Not everything was evidence based but if I was a decent mom I would do ALL the things. For my child with a physical disability everyone comforted me and counseled acceptance.

Some interventions helped my Sons child, some were exhausting (to both me and them) and frankly their growth has been different than what people seemed to predict. In someways better in others the struggles are still there. I think because some parents are in denial about their child’s SN doctors tend to use a lot of scare tactics and come across more definitively than they should. It’s ok to cut back. It’s ok to accept some things you never thought you would. It’s honestly not entirely in your control. Don’t sacrifice your relationship with your child for hopes that they might be different. I hope you can get more help, whether that’s respite care, a different setting at school or something.

Maybe therapy for you, too. That’s helped me a lot.

[Anonymous]

You have to reflect on your child's potential, what you believe is the best method to unlock it, and what are the things you can abandon because they're not important in the moment (but maybe will need to be addressed again in the future).

Which means you really need to know your kid, OP.

I was able to do this with mine, who started off with a global developmental delay, has severe ADHD and autism, plus some learning disorders, as well as muscular tone and coordination issues, but who also has a high subsets of IQs when it comes to cognitive reasoning. He was a complex case.

For all of his childhood, his needs came before all of ours. We did SO MUCH for him, day in, day out. We tried to be fair to our other kids as well, which didn't leave a lot of time for parental needs. When he left for college (which was a miracle in itself), I felt a great burden of care lift from my shoulders. It's not that I wasn't worried about his life on campus, but I couldn't witness his mistakes and therefore they felt a lot more abstract, which did me a world of good.

You can't do everything, you need to triage and prioritize, and still look after yourself and other kids you may have.

Big hugs, OP.

[Anonymous]

^ sorry, not clear: the ADHD is severe, the autism is mild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your child have interests?

For example, are there craft kits or toddler Lego sets that your kid will do?

I know mainstream classrooms try to pacify with iPad and so forth.

My question is whether there are activities you could provide to the teacher that are motivational to your kid.

My experience with NT 3 year olds is that you can find motivational tasks for many of them and it's highly individual.

Thinking back on my boys at around that age, I wonder about Snap Circuits and Rainbow Loom rubber band bracelets and more engaging books on topics they wanted to read about. Reading skills also suggests memorization is possible. What about math fact drill games (flash cards, physical puzzles, electronic hand-held, or apps? Maybe if you abandon all pretense of formal curriculum (worksheets, etc.), and just try to match the subject (do an addition app during math time), something might spark.

I've tried to get him interested in little math and reading games with zero success.

Up until this point, academics haven't really been the problem. He taught himself to read and spell (through typing) on his own. He can do the basic math problems as long as there isn't problem solving that has to go along with it.

But being unwilling to participate in class, respond to questions, complete tasks, or even stay at/near his seat is a major problem that has not improved over 5 years.

He has functional language, but has no interest in using it. He'll verbally act out scenarios as he's playing by himself, but he's never been capable of short conversation, or even willing to respond to questions with more than 1-2 word utterances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if without the therapy he would be worse? Thats what I worry about with my son. Over time he has gotten better - I have no idea if that was just hormones, medication or therapy.

I’m too afraid to give up therapy incase things get worse.

I’m sorry you have to deal with this. You know your child best.

OP here. Yes, I worry about that too, although the lack of meaningful progress in recent years makes me more and more skeptical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Homeschool

Oh my... I can barely handle nights and weekends with him, even setting aside the obvious financial impracticality of that.

There's no way we'd be more successful with him than the school is.

[Anonymous]

I don't have much wisdom to offer but a clip I watched of a mom on Love on the Spectrum talked about her adult son as a child.
She said that she spent so much time and heartache trying to shape him into what she hoped he could be and it was frustrating for everyone. When she started to just let his quirks be, relax and stop trying to channel and direct him, his outgoing and friendly personality opened up. He blossomed. He was a different person that she hadn't known.

[Anonymous]

Have you done an ABLLS-R? If not I’d start there.

[Anonymous]

It's a marathon, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Troll

Doesn't seem like a troll to me. Sounds like a frustrated parent but also a parent who is likely coming to terms with the fact that their child won't get to the level they were hoping they would with all these interventions. It's still a difficult thing to process.

Hopefully there are better programs available and OP should certainly look into it. BUT to the extent the issue is behavioral I think taking a closer look at what is going on is important. A classroom observation or several to really understand what is going on could be helpful to reset. In my experience the tenor of the communication coming home from school created an impression of total dysfunction that was not really the case. Schools just tend to communicate in an escalated manner and don’t communicate the positives or overall picture.

OP here. I've had pretty good relationships with his classroom teachers and special educators. I've had some classroom visits, and if anything, the situation is worse than they say. Completely ignores most instructions or questions and wanders around the room frequently. With 1:1 attention, he might get half-way a worksheet/project, but with absolutely no regard to doing it correctly.

I've never before met anyone in my life who literally does not care what you say or think. Whether you're mad or happy toward him, he doesn't care at all. I wish I was exaggerating. Even rewards don't work on him.

If the rewards aren’t working then you have a motivation issue not a learning issue and that won’t be addressed in mainstream. I’d call an IEP, hire a lawyer, take your team with you, and fight for adequate services. You’re doing him a disservice as it stands.

Calling a meeting doesn't help if there isn't an ask. We've been working with his therapists and doctors for years trying to find something that might help. The mainstream setting isn't good, but the guidance we've gotten is that a self-contained program would be worse for him.

Who has given this guidance? It's possible they are right, and what you need to do is to explore increasing and changing the kinds of supports he is getting in gen ed. It's also possible that they are wrong.

Rewards not working is not a sign that it's a motivation issue, and even if it were, you can work on motivation in a mainstream setting.

What’s your degree in?

Special Education, what's yours in?

Excellent! Explain to me how you’d address motivation in a mainstream setting. Very curious.

Are you OP?

If not, I'm happy to have this conversation in another thread, if you start it. I think that us having a theoretical conversation about inclusion vs. segregated settings and what can best be accomplished in each, isn't going to be helpful to OP who came here asking for help with her actual child.

[Anonymous]

HS special educator here (and above, I'm going to try to remember to ID myself each time because I hope it makes the thread less confusing to know which comments go together).

Could you tell us a little more about your kid's skills? You initially said he hadn't developed any skills, and was like a three year old who could read. But then you added spelling, and math calculation, but not problem solving. Those aren't 3 year old skills. You said he speaks in short phrases, which implies he can't form sentences, but also that he can do 2nd or 3rd grade level work, which often asks for complete sentences? Is it just his self regulation skills that are on a three year old level? Are his social skills on that level? Or lower? How are his motor skills? What about receptive language?

That would help me figure out strategies for him.

Also, what's on his IEP? Is he on alternate learning outcomes, or is he working towards a diploma? Is his work being modified, or does he just get accommodations and specialized instruction?

Sorry to ask so many questions.