Has the fall off of MCPS been as bad as people say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. My kids are 20 and 15 and have been in MCPS since K.

I am very unhappy with the English curriculum, because it's frankly abysmal, but the STEM is great, and better than in any DC area private school.

Agree with this. STEM is good for the smart kids in advanced classes. But English is weak. History is cursory.

What seems to be the most important thing is peer group. And that is very school dependent.

English is weak but AP Lang was a game changer for my kid's writing. That class is a must for anyone. They are taking AP Lit this year so I will report back.

Stem has been great and I've been super impressed with the high school teachers. Elementary teachers were pretty great too, with only an occasional dud. Middle school teachers were kind of meh but you couldn't pay me enough to teach middle school so I get it.

Interesting. My DS took AP Lang and unfortunately, the caliber of writing that I saw him submit and get A's on was not impressive in the least. The bar was clearly low and there wasn't a meaningful amount of written feedback being provided that I could that would improve his writing.

Not to mention there was absolutely little to no focus on spelling or grammar.

[Anonymous]

Demographic changes (majority minority)

Socioeconomic changes (the county isn’t as wealthy as it used to be)

Covid (the county really effed up with keeping the kids home so long, greatly-lowered standards bc mental health, over reliance on Chromebooks)

Discipline changes (kids are less respectful these days just overall, thank you, gentle parenting, and schools are hamstrung on what they can do legally and try desperately to avoid suspending too many kids of color, and MCPS still has a lot of old, racist teachers who LOVE to blame everything on this- but it’s just one piece)

Political changes (since Trump Part 1 everyone has gotten more strident on both sides and too quickly accuses the other of malice and bad intentions)

And now the county is in the middle of a big redistricting (third rail!) and wants to get rid of the magnets (whose racist history is awful, and which are still too white, but which offered real enrichment for super high achievers, so which kept a segment of the families happy).

I have four kids who’ve gone thru MCPS and I still support public education and MCPS in general, but times are TOUGH right now and we can get thru it if we get rid of the stupid racist dog whistles about discipline and come together to make MCPS a decent place for all kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Demographic changes (majority minority)

Socioeconomic changes (the county isn’t as wealthy as it used to be)

Covid (the county really effed up with keeping the kids home so long, greatly-lowered standards bc mental health, over reliance on Chromebooks)

Discipline changes (kids are less respectful these days just overall, thank you, gentle parenting, and schools are hamstrung on what they can do legally and try desperately to avoid suspending too many kids of color, and MCPS still has a lot of old, racist teachers who LOVE to blame everything on this- but it’s just one piece)

Political changes (since Trump Part 1 everyone has gotten more strident on both sides and too quickly accuses the other of malice and bad intentions)

And now the county is in the middle of a big redistricting (third rail!) and wants to get rid of the magnets (whose racist history is awful, and which are still too white, but which offered real enrichment for super high achievers, so which kept a segment of the families happy).

I have four kids who’ve gone thru MCPS and I still support public education and MCPS in general, but times are TOUGH right now and we can get thru it if we get rid of the stupid racist dog whistles about discipline and come together to make MCPS a decent place for all kids.

First two are the root causes for MCPS decline over the years which resulted in widening achievement gap (or lower performance overall). These are societal issues that MCPS has always tried to solve in classroom. You cannot solve (and should not try to solve) social issues in classroom. Schools are for teaching. Focus on teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Demographic changes (majority minority)

Socioeconomic changes (the county isn’t as wealthy as it used to be)

Covid (the county really effed up with keeping the kids home so long, greatly-lowered standards bc mental health, over reliance on Chromebooks)

Discipline changes (kids are less respectful these days just overall, thank you, gentle parenting, and schools are hamstrung on what they can do legally and try desperately to avoid suspending too many kids of color, and MCPS still has a lot of old, racist teachers who LOVE to blame everything on this- but it’s just one piece)

Political changes (since Trump Part 1 everyone has gotten more strident on both sides and too quickly accuses the other of malice and bad intentions)

And now the county is in the middle of a big redistricting (third rail!) and wants to get rid of the magnets (whose racist history is awful, and which are still too white, but which offered real enrichment for super high achievers, so which kept a segment of the families happy).

I have four kids who’ve gone thru MCPS and I still support public education and MCPS in general, but times are TOUGH right now and we can get thru it if we get rid of the stupid racist dog whistles about discipline and come together to make MCPS a decent place for all kids.

I think the way you layered, interrelated way you painted things here is right for the most part.

But I will quibble with you on the racism part.

There ARE a lot of student behavior issues that are being glossed over and avoided because you have cowards in the system who are fearful of being labeled racist for discipling Black kids, but as you point out that's just one piece of the puzzle. If we hone in on the student discipline aspect of this, as you admit, there ARE lots of racist white teachers and admin still in the system. For those lower-level infractions, a good portion of the behavior issues are initiated or exacerbated by the fact that the system has not purged those racist teachers and admin.

MCPS spent money investigating and developing an antiracism action plan to mitigate this. But nothing has happened.

So if MCPS admits racist White teachers and admin are a problem, and the evidence shows it's a problem, the system has a duty to address it.

BTW: White flight has pushed a lot of well-to-do out of MCPS, but increasingly, I'm seeing more middle class Black and Hispanic families flee to privates because they're shocked, appalled and disappointed by the state of MCPS. Especially in schools that are Title I at the elementary level and high FARMS at the secondary level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. My kids are 20 and 15 and have been in MCPS since K.

I am very unhappy with the English curriculum, because it's frankly abysmal, but the STEM is great, and better than in any DC area private school.

Agree with this. STEM is good for the smart kids in advanced classes. But English is weak. History is cursory.

What seems to be the most important thing is peer group. And that is very school dependent.

English is weak but AP Lang was a game changer for my kid's writing. That class is a must for anyone. They are taking AP Lit this year so I will report back.

Stem has been great and I've been super impressed with the high school teachers. Elementary teachers were pretty great too, with only an occasional dud. Middle school teachers were kind of meh but you couldn't pay me enough to teach middle school so I get it.

Interesting. My DS took AP Lang and unfortunately, the caliber of writing that I saw him submit and get A's on was not impressive in the least. The bar was clearly low and there wasn't a meaningful amount of written feedback being provided that I could that would improve his writing.

Not to mention there was absolutely little to no focus on spelling or grammar.

It really varies by teacher but there is no help for spelling and grammar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Demographic changes (majority minority)

Socioeconomic changes (the county isn’t as wealthy as it used to be)

Covid (the county really effed up with keeping the kids home so long, greatly-lowered standards bc mental health, over reliance on Chromebooks)

Discipline changes (kids are less respectful these days just overall, thank you, gentle parenting, and schools are hamstrung on what they can do legally and try desperately to avoid suspending too many kids of color, and MCPS still has a lot of old, racist teachers who LOVE to blame everything on this- but it’s just one piece)

Political changes (since Trump Part 1 everyone has gotten more strident on both sides and too quickly accuses the other of malice and bad intentions)

And now the county is in the middle of a big redistricting (third rail!) and wants to get rid of the magnets (whose racist history is awful, and which are still too white, but which offered real enrichment for super high achievers, so which kept a segment of the families happy).

I have four kids who’ve gone thru MCPS and I still support public education and MCPS in general, but times are TOUGH right now and we can get thru it if we get rid of the stupid racist dog whistles about discipline and come together to make MCPS a decent place for all kids.

I think the way you layered, interrelated way you painted things here is right for the most part.

But I will quibble with you on the racism part.

There ARE a lot of student behavior issues that are being glossed over and avoided because you have cowards in the system who are fearful of being labeled racist for discipling Black kids, but as you point out that's just one piece of the puzzle. If we hone in on the student discipline aspect of this, as you admit, there ARE lots of racist white teachers and admin still in the system. For those lower-level infractions, a good portion of the behavior issues are initiated or exacerbated by the fact that the system has not purged those racist teachers and admin.

MCPS spent money investigating and developing an antiracism action plan to mitigate this. But nothing has happened.

So if MCPS admits racist White teachers and admin are a problem, and the evidence shows it's a problem, the system has a duty to address it.

BTW: White flight has pushed a lot of well-to-do out of MCPS, but increasingly, I'm seeing more middle class Black and Hispanic families flee to privates because they're shocked, appalled and disappointed by the state of MCPS. Especially in schools that are Title I at the elementary level and high FARMS at the secondary level.

Teachers of any race (as well as admin and parents) can be racist to other groups. We had admin hate the white kids in ES and at our HS - our one AP refuses to help smart kids/kids not of her race. It sucks and nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous]

MOCO is lucky to have access to s ton of great privates in the county and nearby upper NW DC. The best area by far for privates in a multi state area.

It's the saving grace for real estate as publics everywhere are in the toilet. It's like MOCO is in the forefront of the educational life raft for everybody grasping for quality educational environments for their children.

Example ,, Good Counsel, Bullis, Landon, Prep, Heights, St Andrews, Glen Elg Country, Holy Cross, Holton, Sidwell, Georgetown Day, Stone Ridge, Holy Child, St Johns, Norwood, Mater Dei, Sidwell Lower, all the parochials, Cathedral, St Albans, WES,

We moved from NOVA to MOCO for these options
,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Demographic changes (majority minority)

Socioeconomic changes (the county isn’t as wealthy as it used to be)

Covid (the county really effed up with keeping the kids home so long, greatly-lowered standards bc mental health, over reliance on Chromebooks)

Discipline changes (kids are less respectful these days just overall, thank you, gentle parenting, and schools are hamstrung on what they can do legally and try desperately to avoid suspending too many kids of color, and MCPS still has a lot of old, racist teachers who LOVE to blame everything on this- but it’s just one piece)

Political changes (since Trump Part 1 everyone has gotten more strident on both sides and too quickly accuses the other of malice and bad intentions)

And now the county is in the middle of a big redistricting (third rail!) and wants to get rid of the magnets (whose racist history is awful, and which are still too white, but which offered real enrichment for super high achievers, so which kept a segment of the families happy).

I have four kids who’ve gone thru MCPS and I still support public education and MCPS in general, but times are TOUGH right now and we can get thru it if we get rid of the stupid racist dog whistles about discipline and come together to make MCPS a decent place for all kids.

I think the way you layered, interrelated way you painted things here is right for the most part.

But I will quibble with you on the racism part.

There ARE a lot of student behavior issues that are being glossed over and avoided because you have cowards in the system who are fearful of being labeled racist for discipling Black kids, but as you point out that's just one piece of the puzzle. If we hone in on the student discipline aspect of this, as you admit, there ARE lots of racist white teachers and admin still in the system. For those lower-level infractions, a good portion of the behavior issues are initiated or exacerbated by the fact that the system has not purged those racist teachers and admin.

MCPS spent money investigating and developing an antiracism action plan to mitigate this. But nothing has happened.

So if MCPS admits racist White teachers and admin are a problem, and the evidence shows it's a problem, the system has a duty to address it.

BTW: White flight has pushed a lot of well-to-do out of MCPS, but increasingly, I'm seeing more middle class Black and Hispanic families flee to privates because they're shocked, appalled and disappointed by the state of MCPS. Especially in schools that are Title I at the elementary level and high FARMS at the secondary level.

Teachers of any race (as well as admin and parents) can be racist to other groups. We had admin hate the white kids in ES and at our HS - our one AP refuses to help smart kids/kids not of her race. It sucks and nothing you can do about it.

Yep, we need to do better on anti-racism training. And I agree - we are losing middle class families of color.

This last comment is not helpful and even if true (and it may well be) that’s not even close to a big problem in MCPS or the world and like you said, it sucks but let’s move on. It is NOT a reason MCPS is in decline.

[Anonymous]

According to my biased anecdote

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MOCO is lucky to have access to s ton of great privates in the county and nearby upper NW DC. The best area by far for privates in a multi state area.

It's the saving grace for real estate as publics everywhere are in the toilet. It's like MOCO is in the forefront of the educational life raft for everybody grasping for quality educational environments for their children.

Example ,, Good Counsel, Bullis, Landon, Prep, Heights, St Andrews, Glen Elg Country, Holy Cross, Holton, Sidwell, Georgetown Day, Stone Ridge, Holy Child, St Johns, Norwood, Mater Dei, Sidwell Lower, all the parochials, Cathedral, St Albans, WES,

We moved from NOVA to MOCO for these options
,

But Virginia has much better college options…I wish we had stayed in Va

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Demographic changes (majority minority)

Socioeconomic changes (the county isn’t as wealthy as it used to be)

Covid (the county really effed up with keeping the kids home so long, greatly-lowered standards bc mental health, over reliance on Chromebooks)

Discipline changes (kids are less respectful these days just overall, thank you, gentle parenting, and schools are hamstrung on what they can do legally and try desperately to avoid suspending too many kids of color, and MCPS still has a lot of old, racist teachers who LOVE to blame everything on this- but it’s just one piece)

Political changes (since Trump Part 1 everyone has gotten more strident on both sides and too quickly accuses the other of malice and bad intentions)

And now the county is in the middle of a big redistricting (third rail!) and wants to get rid of the magnets (whose racist history is awful, and which are still too white, but which offered real enrichment for super high achievers, so which kept a segment of the families happy).

I have four kids who’ve gone thru MCPS and I still support public education and MCPS in general, but times are TOUGH right now and we can get thru it if we get rid of the stupid racist dog whistles about discipline and come together to make MCPS a decent place for all kids.

I think the way you layered, interrelated way you painted things here is right for the most part.

But I will quibble with you on the racism part.

There ARE a lot of student behavior issues that are being glossed over and avoided because you have cowards in the system who are fearful of being labeled racist for discipling Black kids, but as you point out that's just one piece of the puzzle. If we hone in on the student discipline aspect of this, as you admit, there ARE lots of racist white teachers and admin still in the system. For those lower-level infractions, a good portion of the behavior issues are initiated or exacerbated by the fact that the system has not purged those racist teachers and admin.

MCPS spent money investigating and developing an antiracism action plan to mitigate this. But nothing has happened.

So if MCPS admits racist White teachers and admin are a problem, and the evidence shows it's a problem, the system has a duty to address it.

BTW: White flight has pushed a lot of well-to-do out of MCPS, but increasingly, I'm seeing more middle class Black and Hispanic families flee to privates because they're shocked, appalled and disappointed by the state of MCPS. Especially in schools that are Title I at the elementary level and high FARMS at the secondary level.

Teachers of any race (as well as admin and parents) can be racist to other groups. We had admin hate the white kids in ES and at our HS - our one AP refuses to help smart kids/kids not of her race. It sucks and nothing you can do about it.

I disagree there's nothing you can do about it. You can't MAKE people not be racist in their heads, but you CAN have policies and protocols that mitigate and disrupt the ability for those biases to harm student experience. That is what the MCPS Antiracism Action Plan was supposed to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MOCO is lucky to have access to s ton of great privates in the county and nearby upper NW DC. The best area by far for privates in a multi state area.

It's the saving grace for real estate as publics everywhere are in the toilet. It's like MOCO is in the forefront of the educational life raft for everybody grasping for quality educational environments for their children.

Example ,, Good Counsel, Bullis, Landon, Prep, Heights, St Andrews, Glen Elg Country, Holy Cross, Holton, Sidwell, Georgetown Day, Stone Ridge, Holy Child, St Johns, Norwood, Mater Dei, Sidwell Lower, all the parochials, Cathedral, St Albans, WES,

We moved from NOVA to MOCO for these options
,

But Virginia has much better college options…I wish we had stayed in Va

Outside of UVA which is a small school in a much larger state it's meh. Better chance of getting into Big Ten UMD as a Marylander than UVA as a Virginia resident.

[Anonymous]

It's almost impossible for anyone to answer this question, because by definition most people have kids in public schools for about 15 years maximum, during which time their kids are changing levels.

So the best thing to do is to try to find empirical data. From what I've seen, MPCS has slipped vis-a-vis other counties in Maryland, but Maryland overall does fairly well in objective metrics like average SAT scores.

In terms of SAT scores specifically, every school in MCPS (with one exception) beat the national average. Some beat the average by a lot, some by a little.

[Anonymous]

The racist whites move away and then people of color follow them to their new racist communities. Its like racism is magnet for minorities.

[Anonymous]

The haters, the wannabes have been pushing this narrative for the last 15+ years, but they still cannot compete with MCPS. They cannot even compete with MCPS in the "it's academic" competition.