Healthy school start time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This subject is brought up every year. The schedule never changes. Move on.

If the 2014 group had said the same thing, they would've never been able to make it happen. If you don't care to make the change, you move on.

The 2014 group was trying to get the start time moved to substantially later, and after a comprehensive study that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, only managed to move it 20 minutes.

I would not support reopening this question unless someone can explain what has changed since the last time MCPS tackled this issue. If there has been a material change in the situation, let's evaluate. But if all of the factors are functionally the same, it's not worth the money.

This is the perfect time to return to this conversation. We’re about to change boundaries, grading policy, and special programs. Under the new plan, bus rides to special programs will be shorter. We don’t know yet how bus ridership will change with new boundaries. Once these changes are rolled out, we ought to find out if the priorities of MCPS’s stakeholders have changed. Enough years will have passed since the last study that MCPS largely won’t be serving the same families. The old data will be obsolete. That doesn’t mean that the results of a new study would be different, but enough things will have changed that the old study won’t be relevant.

The 2014 study had different options and their costs. The main problem to overcome is how the busses are used for HS, then MS, then ES runs. The idea that I thought most feasible was to have HS start when MS does, but that required purchasing and maintaining more busses and associated staffing.

I think there may be some bus route efficiency improvements with the region idea, but that alone won’t free up enough busses to cover MS/HS at the same time. I would like to see the county improve the public bus routes to align better with school system needs especially in the denser areas of the county. Maybe run new “circulator” routes connecting MS and HS in each region, concentrated around 6-9am, 11-1p, 3-6pm. Plan to move both commuting adults and students more efficiently. It may be possible to free up enough school busses in some areas to shift them to double up in other areas to get a change in start times. It’s worth advocating for.

Yes, RideOn busses! Some of the routes have very few county passangers. Use those busses to circulate in more areas of the county. If only MCPS is willing to collaborate with RideOn and worked together with the MoCo Council

Not all ride on buses go to all neighborhoods and directly to schools.

And that's why MCPS, county council and Ride On should work on a plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The comments about "Oh, no, we can't do this" in 2014 were intense.

The 20-minute push wasn't great, but at least it was a start for the HS & MS kids. It totally sucks for the ES kids, though.

Why?

Can't they swap ES and HS start times?

The 2014 "push everything back 20 minutes" approach resulted in some of the ESs in MCPS starting at 9:35 AM.

As others have said, ES kids are up at the crack of dawn. Ideally, they'd start first and definitely not after 9:30 AM. It also means they dismiss later and some the youngest ones have fallen asleep on the afternoon bus.

No, the school system "can't swap" those start times. MCPS BOE wasn't agreeable to that in 2014.

ES students can have their Specials (art music library p.e. and either academic, foreign language, computer literary or other support time) at the end of the day. That is 45 min of Specials at the end of the day. Can't they start school day at 8am (7:45am if they need breakfast) and end at 3pm with Specials from 2:15 - 3pm? Maybe add in 15 more minutes in the day for recess/non academic time. It's a shame that schools were not creative to create a different type of schedule post pandemic. During virtual learning, the students had blocks and had Wednesday afternoon for academic support extra work time. It's not that hard if people are willing to think and plan to put us in the 21st century. Alas, so many are stuck to the 20th century model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The comments about "Oh, no, we can't do this" in 2014 were intense.

The 20-minute push wasn't great, but at least it was a start for the HS & MS kids. It totally sucks for the ES kids, though.

Why?

Can't they swap ES and HS start times?

The 2014 "push everything back 20 minutes" approach resulted in some of the ESs in MCPS starting at 9:35 AM.

As others have said, ES kids are up at the crack of dawn. Ideally, they'd start first and definitely not after 9:30 AM. It also means they dismiss later and some the youngest ones have fallen asleep on the afternoon bus.

No, the school system "can't swap" those start times. MCPS BOE wasn't agreeable to that in 2014.

ES students can have their Specials (art music library p.e. and either academic, foreign language, computer literary or other support time) at the end of the day. That is 45 min of Specials at the end of the day. Can't they start school day at 8am (7:45am if they need breakfast) and end at 3pm with Specials from 2:15 - 3pm? Maybe add in 15 more minutes in the day for recess/non academic time. It's a shame that schools were not creative to create a different type of schedule post pandemic. During virtual learning, the students had blocks and had Wednesday afternoon for academic support extra work time. It's not that hard if people are willing to think and plan to put us in the 21st century. Alas, so many are stuck to the 20th century model.

Every single grade can’t be in a specials class at the end of the day. There are t enough specials teachers or teaching spaces in one building. Even private schools don’t operate this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The comments about "Oh, no, we can't do this" in 2014 were intense.

The 20-minute push wasn't great, but at least it was a start for the HS & MS kids. It totally sucks for the ES kids, though.

Why?

Can't they swap ES and HS start times?

The 2014 "push everything back 20 minutes" approach resulted in some of the ESs in MCPS starting at 9:35 AM.

As others have said, ES kids are up at the crack of dawn. Ideally, they'd start first and definitely not after 9:30 AM. It also means they dismiss later and some the youngest ones have fallen asleep on the afternoon bus.

No, the school system "can't swap" those start times. MCPS BOE wasn't agreeable to that in 2014.

ES students can have their Specials (art music library p.e. and either academic, foreign language, computer literary or other support time) at the end of the day. That is 45 min of Specials at the end of the day. Can't they start school day at 8am (7:45am if they need breakfast) and end at 3pm with Specials from 2:15 - 3pm? Maybe add in 15 more minutes in the day for recess/non academic time. It's a shame that schools were not creative to create a different type of schedule post pandemic. During virtual learning, the students had blocks and had Wednesday afternoon for academic support extra work time. It's not that hard if people are willing to think and plan to put us in the 21st century. Alas, so many are stuck to the 20th century model.

Every single grade can’t be in a specials class at the end of the day. There are t enough specials teachers or teaching spaces in one building. Even private schools don’t operate this way.

Then don't end the day with specials for every grade. Kids need non academic sessions throughout the day. If school is from 8am - 3pm as a PP suggested, the students need break from academic work so build in more non academic sessions.

[Anonymous]

Why can’t kids go to the school bus? Everyone acts like it isn’t an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This subject is brought up every year. The schedule never changes. Move on.

If the 2014 group had said the same thing, they would've never been able to make it happen. If you don't care to make the change, you move on.

The 2014 group was trying to get the start time moved to substantially later, and after a comprehensive study that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, only managed to move it 20 minutes.

I would not support reopening this question unless someone can explain what has changed since the last time MCPS tackled this issue. If there has been a material change in the situation, let's evaluate. But if all of the factors are functionally the same, it's not worth the money.

This is the perfect time to return to this conversation. We’re about to change boundaries, grading policy, and special programs. Under the new plan, bus rides to special programs will be shorter. We don’t know yet how bus ridership will change with new boundaries. Once these changes are rolled out, we ought to find out if the priorities of MCPS’s stakeholders have changed. Enough years will have passed since the last study that MCPS largely won’t be serving the same families. The old data will be obsolete. That doesn’t mean that the results of a new study would be different, but enough things will have changed that the old study won’t be relevant.

The 2014 study had different options and their costs. The main problem to overcome is how the busses are used for HS, then MS, then ES runs. The idea that I thought most feasible was to have HS start when MS does, but that required purchasing and maintaining more busses and associated staffing.

I think there may be some bus route efficiency improvements with the region idea, but that alone won’t free up enough busses to cover MS/HS at the same time. I would like to see the county improve the public bus routes to align better with school system needs especially in the denser areas of the county. Maybe run new “circulator” routes connecting MS and HS in each region, concentrated around 6-9am, 11-1p, 3-6pm. Plan to move both commuting adults and students more efficiently. It may be possible to free up enough school busses in some areas to shift them to double up in other areas to get a change in start times. It’s worth advocating for.

Yes, RideOn busses! Some of the routes have very few county passangers. Use those busses to circulate in more areas of the county. If only MCPS is willing to collaborate with RideOn and worked together with the MoCo Council

Not all ride on buses go to all neighborhoods and directly to schools.

And that's why MCPS, county council and Ride On should work on a plan.

Why? They cannot provide the same kind of service as school buses. And, many don't want young kids on public buses without any supervision as who knows who is on that bus. You can have your kids take ride on. Its free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The comments about "Oh, no, we can't do this" in 2014 were intense.

The 20-minute push wasn't great, but at least it was a start for the HS & MS kids. It totally sucks for the ES kids, though.

Why?

Can't they swap ES and HS start times?

The 2014 "push everything back 20 minutes" approach resulted in some of the ESs in MCPS starting at 9:35 AM.

As others have said, ES kids are up at the crack of dawn. Ideally, they'd start first and definitely not after 9:30 AM. It also means they dismiss later and some the youngest ones have fallen asleep on the afternoon bus.

No, the school system "can't swap" those start times. MCPS BOE wasn't agreeable to that in 2014.

ES students can have their Specials (art music library p.e. and either academic, foreign language, computer literary or other support time) at the end of the day. That is 45 min of Specials at the end of the day. Can't they start school day at 8am (7:45am if they need breakfast) and end at 3pm with Specials from 2:15 - 3pm? Maybe add in 15 more minutes in the day for recess/non academic time. It's a shame that schools were not creative to create a different type of schedule post pandemic. During virtual learning, the students had blocks and had Wednesday afternoon for academic support extra work time. It's not that hard if people are willing to think and plan to put us in the 21st century. Alas, so many are stuck to the 20th century model.

Do you ever think before you post? An ES has 400-600+ students and usually 1-2 specials teachers for each subject. So, how would that work? Virtual learning is not comparable as teachers did not have enough responsibilities. Want virtual, well pay for it privately or too bad as MCPS cut it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those phones you pay for—set screen time limits so their phone stops working at 10pm. Your kids will go to bed sooner, I promise. It works.

Here is that high and mighty "adult" who does not understand science. Plenty of kids do not have access to screens after a certain time and their parents know how to parent. Move on this discussion does not concern you.

This has nothing to do with science. You can always make up or find a study to support your beliefs. Stop inconviencing others because you cannot get your kids to bed on time or go private with a later start time.

You talk about sleep science the same way climate change deniers talk about climate change science.

One has nothing to do with the other. If your kid needs more sleep, put them to bed earlier and enforce bed time. Its called parenting. Don't inconvenience the rest of us because you refuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This subject is brought up every year. The schedule never changes. Move on.

If the 2014 group had said the same thing, they would've never been able to make it happen. If you don't care to make the change, you move on.

The 2014 group was trying to get the start time moved to substantially later, and after a comprehensive study that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, only managed to move it 20 minutes.

I would not support reopening this question unless someone can explain what has changed since the last time MCPS tackled this issue. If there has been a material change in the situation, let's evaluate. But if all of the factors are functionally the same, it's not worth the money.

This is the perfect time to return to this conversation. We’re about to change boundaries, grading policy, and special programs. Under the new plan, bus rides to special programs will be shorter. We don’t know yet how bus ridership will change with new boundaries. Once these changes are rolled out, we ought to find out if the priorities of MCPS’s stakeholders have changed. Enough years will have passed since the last study that MCPS largely won’t be serving the same families. The old data will be obsolete. That doesn’t mean that the results of a new study would be different, but enough things will have changed that the old study won’t be relevant.

The 2014 study had different options and their costs. The main problem to overcome is how the busses are used for HS, then MS, then ES runs. The idea that I thought most feasible was to have HS start when MS does, but that required purchasing and maintaining more busses and associated staffing.

I think there may be some bus route efficiency improvements with the region idea, but that alone won’t free up enough busses to cover MS/HS at the same time. I would like to see the county improve the public bus routes to align better with school system needs especially in the denser areas of the county. Maybe run new “circulator” routes connecting MS and HS in each region, concentrated around 6-9am, 11-1p, 3-6pm. Plan to move both commuting adults and students more efficiently. It may be possible to free up enough school busses in some areas to shift them to double up in other areas to get a change in start times. It’s worth advocating for.

Yes, RideOn busses! Some of the routes have very few county passangers. Use those busses to circulate in more areas of the county. If only MCPS is willing to collaborate with RideOn and worked together with the MoCo Council

Not all ride on buses go to all neighborhoods and directly to schools.

And that's why MCPS, county council and Ride On should work on a plan.

Why? They cannot provide the same kind of service as school buses. And, many don't want young kids on public buses without any supervision as who knows who is on that bus. You can have your kids take ride on. Its free.

High schoolers can't take a RideOn bus? If you need to start ES and HS at same tme and the claim is that there aren't enough busses to start both tiers, utilize RideOn if it can be an option. That's why stakeholders need to discuss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The comments about "Oh, no, we can't do this" in 2014 were intense.

The 20-minute push wasn't great, but at least it was a start for the HS & MS kids. It totally sucks for the ES kids, though.

Why?

Can't they swap ES and HS start times?

The 2014 "push everything back 20 minutes" approach resulted in some of the ESs in MCPS starting at 9:35 AM.

As others have said, ES kids are up at the crack of dawn. Ideally, they'd start first and definitely not after 9:30 AM. It also means they dismiss later and some the youngest ones have fallen asleep on the afternoon bus.

No, the school system "can't swap" those start times. MCPS BOE wasn't agreeable to that in 2014.

ES students can have their Specials (art music library p.e. and either academic, foreign language, computer literary or other support time) at the end of the day. That is 45 min of Specials at the end of the day. Can't they start school day at 8am (7:45am if they need breakfast) and end at 3pm with Specials from 2:15 - 3pm? Maybe add in 15 more minutes in the day for recess/non academic time. It's a shame that schools were not creative to create a different type of schedule post pandemic. During virtual learning, the students had blocks and had Wednesday afternoon for academic support extra work time. It's not that hard if people are willing to think and plan to put us in the 21st century. Alas, so many are stuck to the 20th century model.

Do you ever think before you post? An ES has 400-600+ students and usually 1-2 specials teachers for each subject. So, how would that work? Virtual learning is not comparable as teachers did not have enough responsibilities. Want virtual, well pay for it privately or too bad as MCPS cut it.

You're not a genius we know. The students receive those classes/specials even now. If a PP is suggesting ES to start at 8 and end at 3, make classes slightly longer than currently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those phones you pay for—set screen time limits so their phone stops working at 10pm. Your kids will go to bed sooner, I promise. It works.

Here is that high and mighty "adult" who does not understand science. Plenty of kids do not have access to screens after a certain time and their parents know how to parent. Move on this discussion does not concern you.

This has nothing to do with science. You can always make up or find a study to support your beliefs. Stop inconviencing others because you cannot get your kids to bed on time or go private with a later start time.

You talk about sleep science the same way climate change deniers talk about climate change science.

One has nothing to do with the other. If your kid needs more sleep, put them to bed earlier and enforce bed time. Its called parenting. Don't inconvenience the rest of us because you refuse.

You clearly don't have a kid who is over 10 or so. Lol "put them..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The comments about "Oh, no, we can't do this" in 2014 were intense.

The 20-minute push wasn't great, but at least it was a start for the HS & MS kids. It totally sucks for the ES kids, though.

Why?

Can't they swap ES and HS start times?

The 2014 "push everything back 20 minutes" approach resulted in some of the ESs in MCPS starting at 9:35 AM.

As others have said, ES kids are up at the crack of dawn. Ideally, they'd start first and definitely not after 9:30 AM. It also means they dismiss later and some the youngest ones have fallen asleep on the afternoon bus.

No, the school system "can't swap" those start times. MCPS BOE wasn't agreeable to that in 2014.

ES students can have their Specials (art music library p.e. and either academic, foreign language, computer literary or other support time) at the end of the day. That is 45 min of Specials at the end of the day. Can't they start school day at 8am (7:45am if they need breakfast) and end at 3pm with Specials from 2:15 - 3pm? Maybe add in 15 more minutes in the day for recess/non academic time. It's a shame that schools were not creative to create a different type of schedule post pandemic. During virtual learning, the students had blocks and had Wednesday afternoon for academic support extra work time. It's not that hard if people are willing to think and plan to put us in the 21st century. Alas, so many are stuck to the 20th century model.

Do you ever think before you post? An ES has 400-600+ students and usually 1-2 specials teachers for each subject. So, how would that work? Virtual learning is not comparable as teachers did not have enough responsibilities. Want virtual, well pay for it privately or too bad as MCPS cut it.

Back in the day and not in mcps just as an example - a homeroom teacher (who happened to be an English teacher) and knew music, had experience teaching music taught students music during their homeroom block.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those phones you pay for—set screen time limits so their phone stops working at 10pm. Your kids will go to bed sooner, I promise. It works.

Here is that high and mighty "adult" who does not understand science. Plenty of kids do not have access to screens after a certain time and their parents know how to parent. Move on this discussion does not concern you.

This has nothing to do with science. You can always make up or find a study to support your beliefs. Stop inconviencing others because you cannot get your kids to bed on time or go private with a later start time.

You talk about sleep science the same way climate change deniers talk about climate change science.

One has nothing to do with the other. If your kid needs more sleep, put them to bed earlier and enforce bed time. It’s called parenting. Don't inconvenience the rest of us because you refuse.

Oh, it’s you. I remember you from the last time later start times were discussed on this board. How many children do you currently have in high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The comments about "Oh, no, we can't do this" in 2014 were intense.

The 20-minute push wasn't great, but at least it was a start for the HS & MS kids. It totally sucks for the ES kids, though.

Why?

Can't they swap ES and HS start times?

The 2014 "push everything back 20 minutes" approach resulted in some of the ESs in MCPS starting at 9:35 AM.

As others have said, ES kids are up at the crack of dawn. Ideally, they'd start first and definitely not after 9:30 AM. It also means they dismiss later and some the youngest ones have fallen asleep on the afternoon bus.

No, the school system "can't swap" those start times. MCPS BOE wasn't agreeable to that in 2014.

ES students can have their Specials (art music library p.e. and either academic, foreign language, computer literary or other support time) at the end of the day. That is 45 min of Specials at the end of the day. Can't they start school day at 8am (7:45am if they need breakfast) and end at 3pm with Specials from 2:15 - 3pm? Maybe add in 15 more minutes in the day for recess/non academic time. It's a shame that schools were not creative to create a different type of schedule post pandemic. During virtual learning, the students had blocks and had Wednesday afternoon for academic support extra work time. It's not that hard if people are willing to think and plan to put us in the 21st century. Alas, so many are stuck to the 20th century model.

What are you suggesting? That somehow the music teacher, who is a likely a full time employee, will only teach during the last 45 minutes of the day, and yet all the kids in the school, will get a reasonable amount of music? And somehow this will solve the problem of there not being enough school buses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This subject is brought up every year. The schedule never changes. Move on.

If the 2014 group had said the same thing, they would've never been able to make it happen. If you don't care to make the change, you move on.

The 2014 group was trying to get the start time moved to substantially later, and after a comprehensive study that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, only managed to move it 20 minutes.

I would not support reopening this question unless someone can explain what has changed since the last time MCPS tackled this issue. If there has been a material change in the situation, let's evaluate. But if all of the factors are functionally the same, it's not worth the money.

This is the perfect time to return to this conversation. We’re about to change boundaries, grading policy, and special programs. Under the new plan, bus rides to special programs will be shorter. We don’t know yet how bus ridership will change with new boundaries. Once these changes are rolled out, we ought to find out if the priorities of MCPS’s stakeholders have changed. Enough years will have passed since the last study that MCPS largely won’t be serving the same families. The old data will be obsolete. That doesn’t mean that the results of a new study would be different, but enough things will have changed that the old study won’t be relevant.

The 2014 study had different options and their costs. The main problem to overcome is how the busses are used for HS, then MS, then ES runs. The idea that I thought most feasible was to have HS start when MS does, but that required purchasing and maintaining more busses and associated staffing.

I think there may be some bus route efficiency improvements with the region idea, but that alone won’t free up enough busses to cover MS/HS at the same time. I would like to see the county improve the public bus routes to align better with school system needs especially in the denser areas of the county. Maybe run new “circulator” routes connecting MS and HS in each region, concentrated around 6-9am, 11-1p, 3-6pm. Plan to move both commuting adults and students more efficiently. It may be possible to free up enough school busses in some areas to shift them to double up in other areas to get a change in start times. It’s worth advocating for.

Yes, RideOn busses! Some of the routes have very few county passangers. Use those busses to circulate in more areas of the county. If only MCPS is willing to collaborate with RideOn and worked together with the MoCo Council

Not all ride on buses go to all neighborhoods and directly to schools.

And that's why MCPS, county council and Ride On should work on a plan.

Why? They cannot provide the same kind of service as school buses. And, many don't want young kids on public buses without any supervision as who knows who is on that bus. You can have your kids take ride on. Its free.

High schoolers can't take a RideOn bus? If you need to start ES and HS at same tme and the claim is that there aren't enough busses to start both tiers, utilize RideOn if it can be an option. That's why stakeholders need to discuss.

They could if there is a route and its safe. I wouldn't let mine nor is there a direct route to school.